Nightmare gun sale and jerk FFL

WOW PBP, after reading those things I think you pretty much have a responsibility to push the ATFE on this. This guy seems to be a blatant spammer and fairly ignorant about the regulations and responsibilities of an FFL, although maybe I am too ignorant of the aforementioned to really make that claim. If it makes things better, my brother is at the Rose Bowl and I think he could stop by on his way back to Ohio and pick that gun up just so you do not have to worry about it anymore. I have the perfect place for it in my safe:)
 
I just read through all the posts in the other forum. This business had the audacity to post Playboy's personal info in that forum (thankfully, it looks like the moderators there corrected it). Lots of negative feedback from angry customers they've screwed. This dealer is about to find himself in a world of legal hurt. It's too late to start backpedalling now.

I hope this guy loses his FFL. This guy never accepts responsibility for anything. No one is perfect, but this hard headed dealer truly thinks he is. I am very curious to see how this turns out, PbP. I know you are protected here but I hope your buyer gets his gun.
 
Just finished reading through the posts on the other forum and rereading the ones here. PBP, looks like you are going well beyond normal etiquette in your attempts to resolve the situation. good on you for your wilingness. now if only the FFL could get his act together
 
since he has been so difficult then Nail his behind to the wall...since he has made this way more of a headache than need be and refuses to transfer the weapon it should cost him. Bad FFL ...should be EX-FFL
 
PBP,

I'm not a lawyer and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I agree with your attorney. You've gone out of your way to do things the RIGHT way and bent over backward afterward to fix this SNAFU created by the FFL on the receiving end. I'd let the ATF and local LEO's deal with the theft of property that's basically going on here.

RR
 
I have the money already. I just do not want to see the buyer screwed in the deal. he acted in good faith and made prompt payment.
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That shows your good character but you've already done your part:

You rec'd the funds, shipped the gun as per buyer's instructions, and have confirmed that how you shipped was legal.

Unless you have some reason to be fearful of the FFL reporting you to the "law," then it is the FFL's and buyer's problem. And if the buyer is out his money and has no gun, he'll turn and put pressure on his FFL.

Finally, and maybe most importantly, if the receiving FFL has a store policy against receiving from a non-FFL, then he needs to include that policy with his own FFL license. Otherwise, how would anyone know?

My opinion is that the FFL mistakenly believed that receiving from a non-FFL was illegal. Then, when you informed him that it was perfectly legal, he had to eat crow and admit that he was wrong. (My evidence: he threatened to report you to the law. He couldn't do that if it was merely a store policy.) However, rather than admit he was indeed wrong, he's hiding behind the store policy angle.

Either way, keep the money, and let it be their problem, because it is.


EDIT: It appears I was late to the thread and it has been resolved. But the FFL needs to take my advice and send all his FFL-related policies along with his license. Then you wouldn't have shipped the gun in the first place.
 
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After breezing through the Northwest forums on this topic seems if the FFL was worried about the gun being illegal all he had to do was contact the ATF and they could have answered his questions. Glad all worked out for the best and a lesson learned.
 
I'm glad it resolved well for you PP. You handled yourself honorably, which we know is not very common in this world. Hopefully your attorney won't charge you (much) for his time.
 
I went to the dealers website. He has posted the following (I am guessing this was done in the last day or so):

ALL FIREARMS SALES MUST BE SHIPPED TO AN FFL DEALER NO EXCEPTIONS !!!

I hated to give his website a hit but I was curious to see if he said anything to that effect.

Note the "Kimber Sucks" picture in the "About Sams" section of his website.
 
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parrothead2581,

That's federal law. The question is whether or not they will ACCEPT shipments from Non-FFL holders.

I don't see anything on their website that states they won't receive shipments from Non-FFL holders.
 
You're right John. I read it and for some unknown reason, saw it as shipped "FROM" not "TO".

And no, I haven't hit the champagne early, just a mental error. :o
 
I liked the rebuttal he posted in his auction arms seller ratings section where he took the guy to task (found here):

Comments: THIS GUY SHOULD BETTER DESCRIBE HIS MERCHANDISE AND HE WOULD GET BETTER FEED BACK.AND NOT WASTE BUYERS TIME.BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 04/13/2008 at 07:21:24
Rebuttal: Yeah, I have really bad feedback (99.5% positive) versus him (50% positive). Look in the mirror before you cast stones. Since we are telling other people how to live, maybe YOU should 1. Read the rules! 2. Consider THAT IT COST ME MONEY AND TIME FOR YOU TO CHANGE YOUR MIND! FFFFFFFFFFF!
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The guy had 2 ratings at the time and the negative was from the clown in question.

I would hate to be the one percent who had a bad experience with this guy like PBP was.

I think someone should contact the BBB.
 
They just have to do it overnight via FedEx.
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That's a myth. You don't have to ship overnight
I've shipped firearms UPS ground to an FFL for an individual sale.

BATFE website
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
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FedEx web site
Firearms
Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S.or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
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flight954: That's a myth. You don't have to ship overnight
I've shipped firearms UPS ground to an FFL for an individual sale.
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It's not a myth. Long guns may be shipped FedEx Ground or UPS Ground, but handguns are a different policy.
While Federal law does not require you to ship overnight when using UPS or FedEx, those companies shipping policies clearly do not allow using Ground for shipping handguns.
Whether you have been able in the past to ship Ground- even with the permission of the FedEx or UPS Store clerk, you did so in violation of their shipping policy:
UPS Policy
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=3&srch_phr=handgun
...Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services...
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FedEx Policy
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/SG_TermsCond_US_2009.pdf see page 142
C. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service.
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