City or county demographics also determine the outcome of a defensive shooting. Some locales have a 60-90% population of one race, and if one is arrested there for shooting in self-defense, and if the shooter belongs to a different race, the probability of fair treatment is open to question. Also, attitudes about firearms and their use vary by region. Cops in rural Texas or Tennesse probably will have a different view than those in urban New York or New Jersey. Police in Long Island communities may look at it in a different light than Manhattan cops.
Night time home burglary....
- Thread starter TLeo
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EddieDaGreat
New member
To everyone his own like I said on my previous post I won't take a chance. Some people have different stands on this topic and ive seen it before.. This is like talking about caliber preference or religion.. Everyone has their own opinion.. Who is right no one knows.. One thing I do say is if the occasion ever presents, god forbid , I can bet my bottom dollar that the people crying won't be at my house..
chadstrickland
New member
I have some some very serious problems with someone breaking into my house, that to me is like some serial killer stuff. If i find someone creeping around my house in the dead of night then there will be no warning shot or warning period. Cruel maybe...but that is what sick people do ( break into peoples house ).
However, if someone is stealing scrap metal from my backyard and i catch them doing it then i will call the cops and maybe shoot out a tire. depends on if i am with someone whos life i will not risk. The reason i say that is if they are armed then they will fight instead of flee if i destroy there transportation.
But anyways, farmerboy...chill man. Relax bud..criminals have really really bad luck.
However, if someone is stealing scrap metal from my backyard and i catch them doing it then i will call the cops and maybe shoot out a tire. depends on if i am with someone whos life i will not risk. The reason i say that is if they are armed then they will fight instead of flee if i destroy there transportation.
But anyways, farmerboy...chill man. Relax bud..criminals have really really bad luck.
People should in all good sense retreat if and when possible.
They should not leave safety and confront a threat.
Property crime is not justification for murder, and whether you want to believe it or not, sneaking up on a guy who came into your home and shooting him is homicide. Legally justified, but still a homicide.
Engaging in an in the home gun battle because a person finds an intruder is dangerous to EVERYONE WITHIN A MILE RADIUS.
In my thoughts, an armed citizen should retreat where possible, contact the law, and then, if the effort to resolve the situation without shots being fired fails, then there is no option left, and that citizen should make every effort to put the intruder into a hole.
It would be interesting to see stats on two things:
First, how often people died in their own homes during a gunfight, who may have had other options for safety.
Second, how many people have died over the history of mankind because they entered a house without evil intentions?
We had a retarded kid up the street that was 6 feet tall, and solidly built. One day, I caught him creeping around the neighbor's house with a toy gun, all alone, playing cops and robbers. he even opened the gate and went into their enclosed porch. Castle doctrine would have allowed my neighbor to kill him instantly. If his parents had been so stupid that he had a pellet or bb gun without a red tip, and he had done so at my house, he might have died if I stretched the meaning of the castle doctrine. But, if I had just stepped away from the windows and called the cops, nobody would have been hurt.
They should not leave safety and confront a threat.
Property crime is not justification for murder, and whether you want to believe it or not, sneaking up on a guy who came into your home and shooting him is homicide. Legally justified, but still a homicide.
Engaging in an in the home gun battle because a person finds an intruder is dangerous to EVERYONE WITHIN A MILE RADIUS.
In my thoughts, an armed citizen should retreat where possible, contact the law, and then, if the effort to resolve the situation without shots being fired fails, then there is no option left, and that citizen should make every effort to put the intruder into a hole.
It would be interesting to see stats on two things:
First, how often people died in their own homes during a gunfight, who may have had other options for safety.
Second, how many people have died over the history of mankind because they entered a house without evil intentions?
We had a retarded kid up the street that was 6 feet tall, and solidly built. One day, I caught him creeping around the neighbor's house with a toy gun, all alone, playing cops and robbers. he even opened the gate and went into their enclosed porch. Castle doctrine would have allowed my neighbor to kill him instantly. If his parents had been so stupid that he had a pellet or bb gun without a red tip, and he had done so at my house, he might have died if I stretched the meaning of the castle doctrine. But, if I had just stepped away from the windows and called the cops, nobody would have been hurt.
youngunz4life
New member
I think maybe he was saying, you are using deadly force via premise when you fire in selfdefense whether you're firing a 44 magnum or a 22 deringer and/or whether you're shooting at BG's center mass or if you are shooting at BG's legs to wound. It is all considered deadly force when you draw and shoot.
youngunz4life
New member
I always hear people talking about the stress of lawyers and guilt and yadda yadda, how about the stress and anxiety I will suffer(and I gurantee I would) worrying about my damn kids and wife and everything else because this killa or sick person or whatever else you want to call him is allowed to walk away? he knows me but I don't know him. He might come back. There are stats on the fact that many times the perp knows the family and the house. yes, sometimes it is random, but I would hate not knowing.
Lots of good posts - I like Aarond's and also the one about how 'sick people' invade homes and how it reminds him of serial killers. I'm not taking any chances if someone breaks in...the property thing isn't really even an issue to me because pretty much you're barking up the wrong tree usually and that isn't my concern. I gotta tell you though, I can only hope I am so lucky that while my family's home is invaded in the wee hrs of the mrng that this guy is stealing a tv and a soda. Luck might be the wrong word, BUT the BG(or bad guys) is usually in the house posing a much much bigger threat.
If you don't want people sneaking into your house, there are plenty of preventive options.
Improve your exterior lighting.
Design your landscaping to not allow hide spots near the house.
Put good doors on the house and attached garage, in solid door frames, with good locks. Use the locks.
Lock the windows.
Burglar bar the sliding doors.
Consider investing in lockable storm shutters.
Consider getting some electronic security.
Set up the interior of the house so that loved ones are in a relatively small, defensible area, so it's easy to set up a defensive chokepoint.
My personal favorite: Get a dog, or multiple dogs. (I have three; the small one barks a lot, and the big ones, while friendly, can scare a stranger quite nicely; one of the big ones will very likely bite an aggressive stranger.) Nothing, but nothing, sneaks up on our house while we are home.
If past experience is any indicator, some poster or posters will now say, "I shouldn't have to go to that much trouble," and/or "I have a gun, I can just shoot them."
To them I say, "good luck."
Edit: Of course, I also have guns. I usually have one on my person. I also have a shotgun or rifle secured but accessible, depending on what part of the house I'm in. I've also been heavily into martial arts for a couple decades. And I work as a defense contractor in Afghanistan. (I'm there now.)
My point is, I'm not talking from a perspective of rose-tinted glasses. If it becomes necessary to engage an intruder, due to a reasonably perceived threat of imminent grave or deadly bodily harm to me or mine, then I have the equipment, the ability, and most of all the mindset to deal decisively with the problem.
I would just prefer to prevent the need in the first place.
If you can't understand that, I guess I might as well not bother...
Improve your exterior lighting.
Design your landscaping to not allow hide spots near the house.
Put good doors on the house and attached garage, in solid door frames, with good locks. Use the locks.
Lock the windows.
Burglar bar the sliding doors.
Consider investing in lockable storm shutters.
Consider getting some electronic security.
Set up the interior of the house so that loved ones are in a relatively small, defensible area, so it's easy to set up a defensive chokepoint.
My personal favorite: Get a dog, or multiple dogs. (I have three; the small one barks a lot, and the big ones, while friendly, can scare a stranger quite nicely; one of the big ones will very likely bite an aggressive stranger.) Nothing, but nothing, sneaks up on our house while we are home.
If past experience is any indicator, some poster or posters will now say, "I shouldn't have to go to that much trouble," and/or "I have a gun, I can just shoot them."
To them I say, "good luck."
Edit: Of course, I also have guns. I usually have one on my person. I also have a shotgun or rifle secured but accessible, depending on what part of the house I'm in. I've also been heavily into martial arts for a couple decades. And I work as a defense contractor in Afghanistan. (I'm there now.)
My point is, I'm not talking from a perspective of rose-tinted glasses. If it becomes necessary to engage an intruder, due to a reasonably perceived threat of imminent grave or deadly bodily harm to me or mine, then I have the equipment, the ability, and most of all the mindset to deal decisively with the problem.
I would just prefer to prevent the need in the first place.
If you can't understand that, I guess I might as well not bother...
Nogo, you hit the nail on the head. We have many examples throughout history and recent times of offender being X and home owner being Y, then local politicians, DA's and other Law Enforcement using the shooting as an opportunity to politically grand stand for Minority or Majority groups. Thankfully if its dark you don't really have a chance to consider skin color do you?
I was always tought growing up, and I have taught my wife if you pull that trigger it is because you feel you have no other choice but to use deadly force. By pulling the trigger and shooting at someone, you have to assume that you are using deadly force and the person you are aiming at will no longer be alive in a couple of seconds. If you are pulling the trigger for any other reason, you are not properly applying force in that situation. Bullets ricochet, over penetrate, etc all the time. Every discharge of a firearm, especially in the confines of a home in a residential area can be very lethal.
Stressfire
New member
To have attempted to for this long, sir, you have the patience of a saint
I assume anyone that is in my house that I did not invite is an intruder and means to do harm to myself or others who reside there. Hopefully, as youngunz pointed out he is there for the TV (its 10 years old and heavy, so good luck with that) and a soda.
I keep a pistol and a flashlight by my bedside, and when awake a pistol on my person or nearby, I also have a cell phone and alarms on the doors - all of which should be used in conjunction, but not necessarily concurrently.
I have no desire to use a firearm to do anything but punch paper (and the occasional alien target
) nor do I want the stress of investigations, possibly a trial, and the expense that goes with it. But if forced to choose between myself and those I love or some random meth addict whose motivations are unpredictable at best, well, I wouldn't want to be him.Yup
youngunz4life
New member
those shutters seem pretty cool. we have the alarm and a good one. it does help because it alerts you and when properly set will be loud Before BG is in the home(instead of 20 sec later when he is already up the stairs anyways and doesn't turn back).
we got the exterior light out front that I at first didn't pay electricity bill for(should've kept my mouth shut//turns out was free until I said something and they noticed their mistake). then we have a sensor light that turns with movement in back. we can leave other lights on but I usually don't and locking doors and windows I am big on. I have neighbors that leave their garages open but I dont do that ever
we got the exterior light out front that I at first didn't pay electricity bill for(should've kept my mouth shut//turns out was free until I said something and they noticed their mistake). then we have a sensor light that turns with movement in back. we can leave other lights on but I usually don't and locking doors and windows I am big on. I have neighbors that leave their garages open but I dont do that ever
SocialAnarchist
Moderator
Let me try this one more time.
1) If myself, my loved ones, or my friends are threatened with violence, I will use whatever means is available to protect them.
2) I will not shoot, to wound or kill, someone stealing my TV. To me it simply is not worth the legal issues that I would have to deal with in my state. We are NOT a Castle Doctrine state, force can only be used as necessasry to stop the threat. You see it would be damn hard to prove a physical threat if I shot a guy in the back as he headed out my door with my tv.
3) I am not saying i wouldn't confront the guy, with my gun in hand, tell him to put the tv down and get down on the floor. I won't shoot him if he does not comply.
Is that clear enough? It isn't about stupid, nonsensical "gentle rape" scenarios. It's not about not defending my family. It's about MY idea that property is not worth killing someone over. It is that simple.
Do as you wish. I most certainly will.
1) If myself, my loved ones, or my friends are threatened with violence, I will use whatever means is available to protect them.
2) I will not shoot, to wound or kill, someone stealing my TV. To me it simply is not worth the legal issues that I would have to deal with in my state. We are NOT a Castle Doctrine state, force can only be used as necessasry to stop the threat. You see it would be damn hard to prove a physical threat if I shot a guy in the back as he headed out my door with my tv.
3) I am not saying i wouldn't confront the guy, with my gun in hand, tell him to put the tv down and get down on the floor. I won't shoot him if he does not comply.
Is that clear enough? It isn't about stupid, nonsensical "gentle rape" scenarios. It's not about not defending my family. It's about MY idea that property is not worth killing someone over. It is that simple.
Do as you wish. I most certainly will.
Stressfire
New member
On a side note, anyone think that BGs know when you can or can't legally shoot them?
Dunno about anyone else, but I'd be pretty much speechless if I was told "I'm only stealing your tv/car/ginsu knife set/whatever, you can't shoot me. See ya"
That's what a teeball bat is for
I would say pistol whip, but I don't wanna screw up my sights
Dunno about anyone else, but I'd be pretty much speechless if I was told "I'm only stealing your tv/car/ginsu knife set/whatever, you can't shoot me. See ya"
That's what a teeball bat is for
I would say pistol whip, but I don't wanna screw up my sights
I'm pretty sure it was Mas Ayoob, in his class in August, who told me "Nobody ever looks at a Doberman or Rottweiler, and says 'you don't have the ****s to bite me.' "
One more advantage to the large dog... A burglar may try to bluff a home-owner. A burglar will rarely try to bluff a dog.
Note to mods: Not trying to get around the language filter, per se, but it's a direct quote.
One more advantage to the large dog... A burglar may try to bluff a home-owner. A burglar will rarely try to bluff a dog.
Note to mods: Not trying to get around the language filter, per se, but it's a direct quote.
Exactly, Fas1. Guys that post "well, I wouldnt shoot him for
stealing my tv, etc" probably in a real situation wouldnt shoot
ANYONE! More than likely, he would freeze up and get shot
with his own gun. You start making up rules to when and where
you are gonna shoot someone THAT IS IN YOUR HOUSE, you are
already in a world of hurt, in my opinion!
stealing my tv, etc" probably in a real situation wouldnt shoot
ANYONE! More than likely, he would freeze up and get shot
with his own gun. You start making up rules to when and where
you are gonna shoot someone THAT IS IN YOUR HOUSE, you are
already in a world of hurt, in my opinion!
There is also always the possibility that the perp is armed. Shoot, he just stole my ginsu knives. I keep pistols in my living room, a rifle in my closet, and my basement has a standard gun case with glass front.
No, I don't call 911 every time I hear a bump in the night. I go and investigate. Under those circumstances, an armed perp, especially if he is holding one of my loaded home defense weapons, will be in full rigor mortis before he leaves the place. The way my house is built, it would be simple suicide to go from floor to floor, knowing that there is an intruder. The beauty of that is that the intruder will also go bacon side up if he tries to invade a different floor.
So, as I mentioned before, IF I HAVE A CONFIRMED HOME INVASION, I will retreat as possible. I already have. My family will be upstairs. Anywhere else, well, we're already boxed in if they even make it through the front door and I've no choice but use force, armed or not. I'm not taking any risks of being attacked by a NOT VISIBLY ARMED intruder.
The real question. I'm upstairs. I've called 911. I've yelled that the cops are on the way, and get out. I'm going to be standing at the top of those stairs, and if a person so much as peeks around the corner, I will fire. I have retreated, and been pursued, and have no choices left.
That's how it works for me. Any other person should be in a similar situation and probably have a similar plan. The first part of that plan, though, is a steel door and a deep set deadbolt.
No, I don't call 911 every time I hear a bump in the night. I go and investigate. Under those circumstances, an armed perp, especially if he is holding one of my loaded home defense weapons, will be in full rigor mortis before he leaves the place. The way my house is built, it would be simple suicide to go from floor to floor, knowing that there is an intruder. The beauty of that is that the intruder will also go bacon side up if he tries to invade a different floor.
So, as I mentioned before, IF I HAVE A CONFIRMED HOME INVASION, I will retreat as possible. I already have. My family will be upstairs. Anywhere else, well, we're already boxed in if they even make it through the front door and I've no choice but use force, armed or not. I'm not taking any risks of being attacked by a NOT VISIBLY ARMED intruder.
The real question. I'm upstairs. I've called 911. I've yelled that the cops are on the way, and get out. I'm going to be standing at the top of those stairs, and if a person so much as peeks around the corner, I will fire. I have retreated, and been pursued, and have no choices left.
That's how it works for me. Any other person should be in a similar situation and probably have a similar plan. The first part of that plan, though, is a steel door and a deep set deadbolt.
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