SocialAnarchist
Moderator
Look, kill all the intruders you want. I am not trying to stop you.
Have a nice day!
Last edited:
Night time home burglary....
- Thread starter TLeo
- Start date
- Status
Look, kill all the intruders you want. I am not trying to stop you.
Have a nice day!
So the assumption then is all other members must be 'more willing to kill' than you are?
This is such a vast generalization as to be absurd. How did you determine that everyone else here is more willing than you to take life? Osmosis? Mind reading ability? Scientific Poll?
Your free to ponder as you like and it up to the moderators to do whatever... Good luck with your theorys...
SocialAnarchist
Moderator
It seems apparent that the willingness to shoot over stuff makes the jump to willingness to kill. If you shoot in self defense the premise is you shoot to kill. At least everything I have read says so. Although shooting over stuff can hardly be construed as self defense.
This is a totally incorrect assumption: Self-defense in regards to deadly force is the use of the minimum force necessary to stop the imminent life threatening attack. It may or may not be that the attacker dies as a result of the force used to stop the attack. The intent of the defenders force is only to stop the attack not to take life...
Some states may or may not allow the use of force to defend property. In my state deadly force cant legally be used by a citizen to stop simple theft.
Stressfire
New member
Same goes for my state. Some do allow defense of property with deadly force, however, the decision on whether to do so or not is a personal one.
Personally, if someone were stealing my property I would not open fire even if I were allowed to. No need to take a life over replaceable property, however, I would make the attempt to retrieve it, that's what non-lethal weapons are for. Phone being at the top of the list.
To the one who stated they would not shoot anyone unless under immanent threat. A bad guy comes into your house is very polite and sees your wife washing dishes and tells her he wishes to do neither of you harm but he's going to rape her and leave you too alone afterwards but will be gentle. You still wouldn't shoot him would you because no one is getting hurt by your last post. Ps- you don't know it but the BG has aids. What if he politely says he's gonna take your tv and insurance can get you another one, no threat was made. Nobody got hurt. He just walks away whistling carrying your tv. This is truly just scenarios and hope this never happens to your are anybody elses wife but really someone that makes those statements, what will you defend??? Hell you won't even help yourself or protect your assests under certain conditions what will you. That's fine maybe it's allright to live I'n a bubble, Idk. But just don't ever get caught kicking my door I'n I'n the night hrs or day either. I'm not gonna ask you if your hear to kill rape or just steal a tv. All I'm gonna say is the last thing you'll see is a bright flash
Stressfire
New member
Use of deadly force in the prevention or interruption of a rape is legal in OH at any rate.
Defense of property is not. But should someone kick down your door in the middle of the night, do you know exactly what they are there to do?
IIRC, you are legally permitted to defend property in Texas, are you not?
Defense of property is not. But should someone kick down your door in the middle of the night, do you know exactly what they are there to do?
IIRC, you are legally permitted to defend property in Texas, are you not?
aarondhgraham
New member
It's the same old debate,,, all over again,,,,,
Kill someone to protect stuff?
I get asked that from time to time,,,
"You would kill someone for stealing your TV?"
"No," I answer, "I would shoot them for being in my home."
There is no legitimate reason for anyone to be in my home uninvited, especially when I'm asleep,,,
When they enter my home they should have realized beforehand that this is a Castle Defense state.
Aarond
Kill someone to protect stuff?
I get asked that from time to time,,,
"You would kill someone for stealing your TV?"
"No," I answer, "I would shoot them for being in my home."
There is no legitimate reason for anyone to be in my home uninvited, especially when I'm asleep,,,
When they enter my home they should have realized beforehand that this is a Castle Defense state.
Aarond
If the BG enters my house unwelcomed and approaches to within 20 feet he will have a pistol/shotgun or carbine aimed upon him even if I would hold my fire. As I have to assume the intent is bodily harm or death no matter what the person says due to the situation. The moment that person refuses my command to stop advancing it may well redefine the sitation to the point that force can legally be used.
The BG approaching my spouse with a stated intent to rape and a disparity of force due to numbers would probably reach the level of threat required by law especially if there is no way to retreat.
The law never states stand and watch your loved ones get killed, raped or maimed but thats entirely different than someone who doesnt approach you who simply steals your tv or some other thing.
I am no lawyer but the law in many places seems to generally define property as not being as valuable as life....
Last edited:
Mike Irwin
Staff
Some states, at least most sane states, consider a night-time invasion of an occupied dwelling an affirmative defense if the homeowner uses lethal force in response, even if the intruder isn't armed, or apparently armed.
If someone is willing to break into a home during a time when it is highly likely that it will be occupied, the presumption is that they constitute an immediate threat to life and limb and that threat can be met with deadly force.
Some states still have the "you must first retreat" restrictions on use of deadly force, even during a night time invasion.
If someone is willing to break into a home during a time when it is highly likely that it will be occupied, the presumption is that they constitute an immediate threat to life and limb and that threat can be met with deadly force.
Some states still have the "you must first retreat" restrictions on use of deadly force, even during a night time invasion.
Stressfire
New member
That they do, though one has to wonder how you retreat from your own home.
Castle doctrine isn't the be all, end all of HD either. Simply gives you the option to defend yourself within your home.
SocialAnarchist
Moderator
My state is not a Castle Doctrine State so shooting someone over property will cause me more hassles than filing an insurance claim. I never said I wouldn't confront them, tell them to put the TV down, and get down on the floor. If they choose to keep walking I will not shoot them over a TV. You don't have to like my plan, I don't have to like yours. Mine doesn't affect you and yours doesn't affect me. Try to relax and realize all you control is you and not everyone else's actions.
As for your rape scenario it is entirely ludicrous. Rape is a violent crime whether it is done gently or not. It is forcing someone to physically comply against their wishes.
Apparently you will go to the extreme of ridiculousness to try and discredit me. Honestly, I think with this post you are clutching at straws and you look really, really, desperately foolish.
Do have a nice day.
Last edited:
farmerboy, you really should take some classes on the legalities of self-defense. Your examples have been getting ridiculous.
Somebody who breaks into the house, in many states, is in the process of committing a felony that specifically allows use of force, including deadly force.
When that same person makes an obvious effort to retreat, as in leave the premises, not simply get to a more advantageous tactical position for re-attack, in most states that person no longer meets the threshold that justifies use of deadly force.
In Texas, under certain circumstances (depending in part on whether it's night or day; whether he is taking property that cannot be reasonably replaced; etc) you might still be legally ok if you continued to engage. In most of the rest of the US, you'd be courting disaster.
Talking tough really doesn't mean much. If some of the people who are spouting off actually did some of the things they advocate, they'd be setting themselves up for serious felony charges. Might the DA decide not to press charges? Possibly. If charges were pressed, might a jury nullify them? Possibly. How many thousands would have been spent on legal counsel by that point, on average? How would that cost compare to the cost of replacing a tv?
Let's say the process ended up taking two months worth of time, between an initial day or weekend in jail, plus hearings, etc. I work overseas. Good odds that post-shooting, pre-trial, I'd be restricted from leaving the country. Two months of lost wages.... It would cost less to let a BG steal my truck, and that's without paying a lawyer one cent.
(And I have a reasonably nice truck.)
We haven't even discussed the emotional turmoil for self, spouse, etc.
If I am ever forced to shoot somebody, then so be it. But it's not something I'm looking to do, if it isn't necessary to prevent death or grave bodily injury. (And yes, in every state in the US, rape would qualify as grave bodily injury, so that example of yours was ... I can't even think of a word that wouldn't offend the mods.)
Somebody who breaks into the house, in many states, is in the process of committing a felony that specifically allows use of force, including deadly force.
When that same person makes an obvious effort to retreat, as in leave the premises, not simply get to a more advantageous tactical position for re-attack, in most states that person no longer meets the threshold that justifies use of deadly force.
In Texas, under certain circumstances (depending in part on whether it's night or day; whether he is taking property that cannot be reasonably replaced; etc) you might still be legally ok if you continued to engage. In most of the rest of the US, you'd be courting disaster.
Talking tough really doesn't mean much. If some of the people who are spouting off actually did some of the things they advocate, they'd be setting themselves up for serious felony charges. Might the DA decide not to press charges? Possibly. If charges were pressed, might a jury nullify them? Possibly. How many thousands would have been spent on legal counsel by that point, on average? How would that cost compare to the cost of replacing a tv?
Let's say the process ended up taking two months worth of time, between an initial day or weekend in jail, plus hearings, etc. I work overseas. Good odds that post-shooting, pre-trial, I'd be restricted from leaving the country. Two months of lost wages.... It would cost less to let a BG steal my truck, and that's without paying a lawyer one cent.
(And I have a reasonably nice truck.)
We haven't even discussed the emotional turmoil for self, spouse, etc.
If I am ever forced to shoot somebody, then so be it. But it's not something I'm looking to do, if it isn't necessary to prevent death or grave bodily injury. (And yes, in every state in the US, rape would qualify as grave bodily injury, so that example of yours was ... I can't even think of a word that wouldn't offend the mods.)
When the situation does happen....How would anyone really react.?
Some say...."I would never shoot and kill someone, if my life did not depend on it".
Well I ask you this....
If you saw someone behind the steering wheel of your vehicle. And they were stealing it. You have your concealed firearm. You have that brief opportunity to stop the thief....but you have to shoot him.
The dirty looking creep turns, looks at you, winks his eye, flips you the finger as he is about to drive off.
The thief is not awaire of this, but in your vehicle is your $10,000 Colt 1911 custom built handgun, your briefcase with $165,000 in cash in it.
WOULD YOU SHOOT?
Some say...."I would never shoot and kill someone, if my life did not depend on it".
Well I ask you this....
If you saw someone behind the steering wheel of your vehicle. And they were stealing it. You have your concealed firearm. You have that brief opportunity to stop the thief....but you have to shoot him.
The dirty looking creep turns, looks at you, winks his eye, flips you the finger as he is about to drive off.
The thief is not awaire of this, but in your vehicle is your $10,000 Colt 1911 custom built handgun, your briefcase with $165,000 in cash in it.
WOULD YOU SHOOT?
Stressfire
New member
Sure, take out the tires
SocialAnarchist
Moderator
Ding, Ding, DING!! We have a winner!!
Stressfire
New member
Was wondering that myself, but maybe there's a good reason
- Status