New Remington 870 - another failure to extract story
- Thread starter rc601962
- Start date
I can tell you exactly why I recently bought yet another 870 Express. Every pump shotgun that I evaluated under $300 had its flaws. The question to me was which shotgun would prove to be the most satisfying AFTER I remediated whatever inherent flaws it carried. In the end, the 870 Express gave me a better gun for my needs than the other options; solid, reliable, points well for me, and the cheapest to get it to a point where I'd consider it 'do-all'.
Remington makes their cost targets by taking a certain design and manufacturing approach, Mossy makes their cost targets by taking different approachs to pump gun design and manufacture, Benelli takes yet a different approch, and so forth. Each of us get to decide which cost shortcuts are least obtrusive or easiest to fix, and I will never understand why that analysis seems to cause so much angst.....
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Take a 12 ga brush....embed some 0000 steel wool into it. Maybe some flitz if your feeling antsy.... Hook it up to a segment of a cleaning rod and pop that motha' into a drill. Polish the chamber a bit and clean it up.
It will fix itself....If you get a stuck shell simply put one hand on the pump, and another on the action. SLAM the butt of the gun on the ground (Preferably on wood) with a considerable amount of force on the pump.... and the shell will pop right out.
Its called a stock slam. : D
It will fix itself....If you get a stuck shell simply put one hand on the pump, and another on the action. SLAM the butt of the gun on the ground (Preferably on wood) with a considerable amount of force on the pump.... and the shell will pop right out.
Its called a stock slam. : D
Wildalaska
Moderator
Yep...we have...under warranty, virtually every one was a dealer/distributor storage issue. As an amourer selling your videos, you are aware of storage issues arent you?
And you are aware of the sizing problems with cheap ammo arent you?
Newbies should read the rules. If the best you can do is childish ad hominems, bet your time here gets limited
Where did you buy them. What was the problem with your CDL?
Is it? I see I have dissed the bashingwoobie
WildithinkitstimetoupdatemyignorelistagainAlaska ™
Not my Website and it's a free video. I am aware that polishing alone doesn't always clear the problem up. Sometimes the chamber has to be opened up a few thousands with a hone to fix the problem. I believe Remington isn't changing out out their tooling, chamber reamers, as often as they should to save on tooling cost.
If the shells alone were the problem all 870s and all shotguns would have problems with them and no one would buy them.
GC
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I stopped buying cheap Winchester shells because I damn near had to force them to fit in the chamber of an old Stevens 311. If they won't fit in a 60 year old side by side, I have no doubt they'd have caused FTEs in a repeater.
My guess is that the people who still buy them have similarly out-of-spec chambers, or are unfortunate first time buyers.
Unless there is a storage problem, mathematically this probability would be close to zero without some sort of QC problem.
Wildalaska is not on Remington's payroll...he knows a lot about guns. The fact that anyone would even suggest this shows that they are a newbie without even looking at the number of posts.
However, if there is not a QC issue, then I there must be a lot of guns sitting in storage.
Just sayin'!!I did my research BEFORE I bought my Remington 870 Express. I found an abundance of people that had the extraction problem. The problem is overwhelming and ubiquitous.
I considered my purchase of a new Remington 870 Express to be like buying a partially completed kit.
I received the gun and after a thorough cleaning, guess what? Extraction problems. I took the gun to a Remington warranty service center and I should get it back in about a week.
Alaska is about as wrong as a human being could possibly be. The problem is there and the problem is widespread. Alaska should just man-up and admit it.
I considered my purchase of a new Remington 870 Express to be like buying a partially completed kit.
I received the gun and after a thorough cleaning, guess what? Extraction problems. I took the gun to a Remington warranty service center and I should get it back in about a week.
Alaska is about as wrong as a human being could possibly be. The problem is there and the problem is widespread. Alaska should just man-up and admit it.
nefprotector
Moderator
870 clones
I have a NEF Protector 12 ga pump action shotgun. I had nothing but good words for it until I cleaned it. Yes I said "cleaned it". I cleaned the thing with Winchester Breakfree powder cleaner; lubed it up with Break Free. Then it started jamming the 4th and 5th shots. I took the thing apart and to my amazement the Magazine follower was melted.(caused by the cleaner) It was kind of waxy feeling. I have never in my life seen such a mess in a shotgun; and this was in the magazine tube. I ordered a NEW Remington follower and Wolff springs. I will keep you posted.
ps
Have any of you 870 owners had this problems?
I have a NEF Protector 12 ga pump action shotgun. I had nothing but good words for it until I cleaned it. Yes I said "cleaned it". I cleaned the thing with Winchester Breakfree powder cleaner; lubed it up with Break Free. Then it started jamming the 4th and 5th shots. I took the thing apart and to my amazement the Magazine follower was melted.(caused by the cleaner) It was kind of waxy feeling. I have never in my life seen such a mess in a shotgun; and this was in the magazine tube. I ordered a NEW Remington follower and Wolff springs. I will keep you posted.
ps
Have any of you 870 owners had this problems?
A couple things from a long time 870 fan but no zombie....
Ammo/shotgun imcompatibilites have long existed. My oldest WM used to glitch on one brand of goose loads back in the 60s. Solution, use the wonderful Western loads of the day.
At this time, two of my favorite WMs will choke on ejecting Gun Clubs. No other ammo I use causes this problem. SO, I do not use GCs in those shotguns.
Since I clean those barrels with 4/0 steel wool wrapped around a dowel and chucked up in a drill, we can assume the chambers are polished.
These WMs were made in 1955 and 1973, so it's not a recent QC problem. One barrel was an Express bought around 1985, the other is original to the 1955 WM.
Newer LC barrels(Post 2000) used on both still have the issues. None with other ammo. Those GCs work OK in my Beretta O/U, BTW.
As I see it, the problems folks have with newer Expresses fall into a couple groups.
Here they are, along with solutions....
Failure to remove the preservatives as the manual requires. Doing so eliminates a lot of stickiness.
Failure to select good ammo. Obvious solution, use better fodder.AND SHOOT A GOOD BIT OF IT BEFORE TRUSTING YOUR LIFE AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY'S TO IT OR ANY OTHER WEAPON.
Failure to rack with authority. Back when the state paid me to teach folks to shoot 870s, I noted that most hangups related to baby stroking the pump. Those that did it hard had few troubles.
And finally, there's the unavoidable fact that some folks just are not very bright and also hate to admit they know little about shotguns. So, they have problems and it HAS to be the gun's fault, not the fact that they cannot cross the street on the green light.
After all, all us US males just naturally are great lovers, shooters, drivers and fighters, right?...
Ammo/shotgun imcompatibilites have long existed. My oldest WM used to glitch on one brand of goose loads back in the 60s. Solution, use the wonderful Western loads of the day.
At this time, two of my favorite WMs will choke on ejecting Gun Clubs. No other ammo I use causes this problem. SO, I do not use GCs in those shotguns.
Since I clean those barrels with 4/0 steel wool wrapped around a dowel and chucked up in a drill, we can assume the chambers are polished.
These WMs were made in 1955 and 1973, so it's not a recent QC problem. One barrel was an Express bought around 1985, the other is original to the 1955 WM.
Newer LC barrels(Post 2000) used on both still have the issues. None with other ammo. Those GCs work OK in my Beretta O/U, BTW.
As I see it, the problems folks have with newer Expresses fall into a couple groups.
Here they are, along with solutions....
Failure to remove the preservatives as the manual requires. Doing so eliminates a lot of stickiness.
Failure to select good ammo. Obvious solution, use better fodder.AND SHOOT A GOOD BIT OF IT BEFORE TRUSTING YOUR LIFE AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY'S TO IT OR ANY OTHER WEAPON.
Failure to rack with authority. Back when the state paid me to teach folks to shoot 870s, I noted that most hangups related to baby stroking the pump. Those that did it hard had few troubles.
And finally, there's the unavoidable fact that some folks just are not very bright and also hate to admit they know little about shotguns. So, they have problems and it HAS to be the gun's fault, not the fact that they cannot cross the street on the green light.
After all, all us US males just naturally are great lovers, shooters, drivers and fighters, right?...
NEFProtector,
The 870 Express shotguns use a little plastic follower as well. I don't know if their plastic is susceptible to chemical degradation, like your NEF did.
I gut them and replace the factory Express follower with something more substantial. I usually iron out the magazine tube detents, install a magazine extension and follow with a Wilson spring and heavy-duty follower. That one is plastic too, but at least it's solid and lots heavier than the little Express plug.
I'm seeing too many posts on various gun boards, regarding problems with the later Express shotguns, for me to believe it's anything other than the predictable result of cheapening a product too much. I personally wouldn't have a new one, or a used one after the change to plastic trigger guards. There are simply too many serviceable, older guns available in the 'used' market.
It ain't just 870's I feel that way about, either.
*Just caught your post, Dave...I'll agree with you on the last line, anyhow
Seriously, I've never had an ammo compatibility problem with any 870; Police, Express or otherwise. Had a couple of Mossberg 500's for the kids, over the years, which flat did NOT like Federal from Wally World.
The 870 Express shotguns use a little plastic follower as well. I don't know if their plastic is susceptible to chemical degradation, like your NEF did.
I gut them and replace the factory Express follower with something more substantial. I usually iron out the magazine tube detents, install a magazine extension and follow with a Wilson spring and heavy-duty follower. That one is plastic too, but at least it's solid and lots heavier than the little Express plug.
I'm seeing too many posts on various gun boards, regarding problems with the later Express shotguns, for me to believe it's anything other than the predictable result of cheapening a product too much. I personally wouldn't have a new one, or a used one after the change to plastic trigger guards. There are simply too many serviceable, older guns available in the 'used' market.
It ain't just 870's I feel that way about, either.
*Just caught your post, Dave...I'll agree with you on the last line, anyhow
Seriously, I've never had an ammo compatibility problem with any 870; Police, Express or otherwise. Had a couple of Mossberg 500's for the kids, over the years, which flat did NOT like Federal from Wally World.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Yeah, I see it all the time...in fact of the last 50 we have sold none have come back.
And we are the remington service center, remember?
Oh wait, according to the net its overwhelming
Or perhaps, in your case, operator error?
Read DaveMc's last post.
WildimquirecomfortableinmymanlinessAlaska ™
.300 Weatherby Mag
New member
A friend of mine owns a local full line dealership... I buy from him..
CDL Problem:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368799
Not an operator problem.
They may not want to send it to you because they don't trust you.
WildgoogleisyourfriendopenyoureyesAlaska
http://www.google.com/search?safe=a...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
P.S. For every one post there are probably hundreds of people who didn't post.
They may not want to send it to you because they don't trust you.
WildgoogleisyourfriendopenyoureyesAlaska
http://www.google.com/search?safe=a...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
P.S. For every one post there are probably hundreds of people who didn't post.
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rantingredneck
New member
nefprotector said:
Therein lies the problem with the melty plastic. If you'll read the label closely I bet it warns against exposure to plastic parts/polymer frames/synthetic stocks and the like???
The Breakfree Powderblast you are using (now re-badged and sold in WalMart under the Winchester name) is forumlated to remove carbon and powder fouling along with plastic wadding residue from shotgun barrels. It's designed to melt plastic........
Switch to Birchwood Casey's Gunscrubber, synthetic safe version if you want an aerosol spray cleaner. Or be more careful with the Breakfree and keep it away from plastic parts.
rantingredneck
New member
As a general rule, people who are happy with a product will typically tell maybe 1 or 2 people. People who are unhappy will tell everyone they meet. This general rule applies to firearms as well.
nefprotector
Moderator
"Quote:
Originally Posted by nefprotector
Winchester Breakfree powder cleaner
Therein lies the problem with the melty plastic. If you'll read the label closely I bet it warns against exposure to plastic parts/polymer frames/synthetic stocks and the like???
The Breakfree Powderblast you are using (now re-badged and sold in WalMart under the Winchester name) is forumlated to remove carbon and powder fouling along with plastic wadding residue from shotgun barrels. It's designed to melt plastic........
Switch to Birchwood Casey's Gunscrubber, synthetic safe version if you want an aerosol spray cleaner. Or be more careful with the Breakfree and keep it away from plastic parts.
__________________
NRA Member
NC Hunter's Education Instructor "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Amen to that! Yes the label says can be harmful to plastics. I ordered a Remington replacement follower and Wolff replacement springs. Thanks for the info Sir.
Originally Posted by nefprotector
Winchester Breakfree powder cleaner
Therein lies the problem with the melty plastic. If you'll read the label closely I bet it warns against exposure to plastic parts/polymer frames/synthetic stocks and the like???
The Breakfree Powderblast you are using (now re-badged and sold in WalMart under the Winchester name) is forumlated to remove carbon and powder fouling along with plastic wadding residue from shotgun barrels. It's designed to melt plastic........
Switch to Birchwood Casey's Gunscrubber, synthetic safe version if you want an aerosol spray cleaner. Or be more careful with the Breakfree and keep it away from plastic parts.
__________________
NRA Member
NC Hunter's Education Instructor "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Amen to that! Yes the label says can be harmful to plastics. I ordered a Remington replacement follower and Wolff replacement springs. Thanks for the info Sir.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
Over the years I've found WildAlaska to be very knowledgeable--you noobs would do well to listen to him.
I've purchased several new Express' over the last few years and have never had a problem--even with the dreaded Winchester ammo.
I also break them down completely(except for the trigger group) and give them a good going over--I'd say most problems with the Express boil down to operator error--which includes knowing your gun completely.
If you look up my old posts--I'm no Remington fan either---but wouldn't hesitate to buy an 870.
I've purchased several new Express' over the last few years and have never had a problem--even with the dreaded Winchester ammo.
I also break them down completely(except for the trigger group) and give them a good going over--I'd say most problems with the Express boil down to operator error--which includes knowing your gun completely.
If you look up my old posts--I'm no Remington fan either---but wouldn't hesitate to buy an 870.
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