Never go unarmed again

[threegun]

Seriously? You don't think that any CO is at risk unless they've abused a prisoner that then recognizes them on the outside? That's incredibly ignorant.

To give you the courtesy of an answer......no I don't think that a former inmate while free in society would harm a CO without a reason. A CO cannot arrest them.

I think LE officers are much more at risk of attack than any CO.

Do you think that guards get harmed on the inside only becaused they've done something to "deserve" it? Spare me

We aren't talking about on the inside. Again my question was why would a former inmate want to harm a CO after he has been released?

Maybe produce some evidence suggesting you are correct instead of hurling insults. Heck a reasonable answer to my question would be better than name calling.

 

[JN01]

Why would any former jailbird want to harm the guards after they have been released? The only reason I can think of is to get paybacks for abuse.

Short answer: because they are scumbags.

A CO may have a particular inmate in his cell block all day, every day, for years. Perhaps the CO enforces the rules, and because he does, the inmate develops a long simmering resentment. Maybe the inmate doesn't do anything about it inside because if he does, there is no where to run, and eyes are everywhere. Now, he gets out and sees the CO on the street and he feels its open season. And since he now has unrestricted access, perhaps he is under the influence of his drug of choice, inhibiting whatever trace of reservation he might have had.

Maybe he just hates COs as a general principle.

Why do these creeps go back to prison 5, 6 times? Because they feel entitled to do whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want. They don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.

 

[armoredman]

They do attack us, but the rate of COs off duty hurt by assault as cops on duty is much smaller - we don't go looking for them, and MOST of the time they don't go looking for us. Some do. If you've never been inside and seen some of the empty suits of skin walking around pretending to be human, you have no idea what you are talking about. I have worked maximum, close and medium custody, sex offenders and GP, plus a bit on Death Row. Some of the inmates in there believe killing a person is the same as turning off a light, and it doesn't matter who it is. I have seen inmates attack staff simply because they were the next person in brown to be walking by. Yes, that's inside, but when you couple this attitude with the fact that 95% of all inmates are released some day, it can get your attention. If you believe we are just making this up, fine, believe what you want, but walk inside the wire sometime - might change your mind.
My Dept issues the Glock 17, but I don't like it, even after qualifying Expert or Distinguished Expert every year with it, so I carry a CZ P-01 with two spares off duty, and may be moving to the CZ SP-01 Phantom with the 18 round mags, two spares. Yes, they run in packs, and many of them know me by face. I enforce the rules inside, and they don't like that. Too bad.
Oddly enough, I have had several ex-inmates come up to me to brag about how they are staying clean and gainfully employed, and I always give them as much positive feedback as possible.
Just goes along with being the red-headed step-children of LE.

 

[BikerRN]

To give you the courtesy of an answer......no I don't think that a former inmate while free in society would harm a CO without a reason. A CO cannot arrest them.

I think LE officers are much more at risk of attack than any CO.

Having been on the inside, I cannot begin to tell you how stupid your statement and belifs are.

Armored Man did a much better, and nicer, job of explaining it than I could. I will choose to ignore you, as you clearly are either very naive, intellectually challenged, or a substance abuser that has had one too many hits at the crack pipe.

Truth be told, after an arrest, street cops have less to worry about from someone they put away than those that keep them incarcerated.

Biker

 

[garryc]

Oddly enough, I have had several ex-inmates come up to me to brag about how they are staying clean and gainfully employed, and I always give them as much positive feedback as possible.
Just goes along with being the red-headed step-children of LE.

Bingo!!

Many times I've come on a former inmate trying to do right. I shake their hand and talk to them some. They call me Mr. C, I tell them it's Garry out here. The last guy I ran into at Giant Eagle I actually gave a recipe to, wrote it down for him. Running straight with a record is tough, real tough.


And I never said a C/O was in more danger off duty than when a cop is on duty. More danger off duty than a cop is OFF duty. It simply is based on recognition. A cop might deal with a hand full of felons in a weeks time, me, 1750 a day when I was a yard officer.

As far as the gun, I really don't need a High Cap. I simply don't go very many places. Round the corner stuff. Mostly I'm a home body. I really don't go anywhere at night. We haven't really been to a restaurant in several years. No clubbing, no theaters except for an early matinee.

 

[ojibweindian]

Gary

I'd most definitely think you'd need a "full cap" gun because, though you're not looking for trouble, someday trouble, and a butt-load of it, might come looking for you. It'd be a lot easier to fend off several attackers with 32 on tap or available out of a Glock 19 or an XD9. And, either one of those two are pretty easy to conceal and get up and running in a hurry. Also, with 16 or 17 round mags, you have a better chance of not going to slide lock while exposed in the middle of a gun fight.

I think the latest edition of American Handgunner has an "Ayoob Files" article that highlights the advantage of having more rounds in your gun than the opposition.

 

[jkgruet]

Good thread. Most importantly, I have come to have a much better appreciation for the correction officer job. I'd not really thought about it before very much. Thank you.

I've long been a believer that there really is such a thing as a stupid question. But I also think that puts a higher burden on the one answering the question, since, in most cases, the questioner doesn't realize that it's stupid -- but at least realizes that he may yet have something to learn. And that's a good thing.

 

[Bernie Lomax]

Moving will do little good, the whole country is in decline, with all the jobs moved overseas.

That's absolutely correct. Also, Section 8 programs have been used to transplant miniature ghettos into just about every (formerly) decent neighborhood in the country. Not even places like Westchester and Marin County are safe anymore:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/03/26/white.county.diversity.cnn?hpt=C2
http://issuesviews.blogspot.com/2009/11/westchester-and-latest-integration.html

I live in a neighborhood that's recently been "enriched" with Section 8 "diversity" and was considering moving, but then I realized that there's really nowhere left to run to. It's time to cowboy up and start fighting back.

 

[threegun]

Having been on the inside, I cannot begin to tell you how stupid your statement and belifs are.

Armored Man did a much better, and nicer, job of explaining it than I could. I will choose to ignore you, as you clearly are either very naive, intellectually challenged, or a substance abuser that has had one too many hits at the crack pipe.

Truth be told, after an arrest, street cops have less to worry about from someone they put away than those that keep them incarcerated.

Biker

Until I see statistics that show a CO at a higher level of danger while offduty from a former inmate now a free civilian I will disagree.

If you are correct then there would be stats and stories to prove such. Providing them would certainly prove me all the things you called me. Until then you have proved nothing with your tirade except that CO's job turns them into impolite humans.

Oddly enough, I have had several ex-inmates come up to me to brag about how they are staying clean and gainfully employed, and I always give them as much positive feedback as possible

Many times I've come on a former inmate trying to do right. I shake their hand and talk to them some. They call me Mr. C, I tell them it's Garry out here. The last guy I ran into at Giant Eagle I actually gave a recipe to, wrote it down for him. Running straight with a record is tough, real tough.

Seems the evidence provided so far is exacelty opposite.

 

[BikerRN]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10408797

http://prisonmovement.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/off-duty-prison-guard-attacked-at-norcal-rest-stop/

http://www.marinij.com/ci_11734401?source=most_viewed

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/22/n...icut-hartford-prison-guard-killed.html?src=pm

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/01/25/news/doc4b5e171095f0b468583795.txt

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/gridley-ca/TNONQEIS45Q4IO8L4

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Prison-Guard-Killed-on-Way-to-Work-96785909.html

http://sxmislandtime.com/index.php?...t-bay-beach-friday&catid=31:general&Itemid=76

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=49175

http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2007/10/14/past stories/19998749.txt

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-11-01/news/1994305026_1_turman-mitchem-civil-lawsuit/2

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/bullets-fly-through-prison-guards-home

That should be enough to prove that CO's face danger on the outside.

Biker

 

[threegun]

An off-duty prison officer was assaulted yesterday after gang members tried to steal his Harley Davidson motorbike in Kaikohe.

When the men left the saloon, they exchanged words with four men outside the bar, said Fairfax police Sgt. Chris Morin. One of the guards was then punched in the face, sending him falling backward.

but said investigators didn�t believe the animosity had anything to do with his role as a prison guard.

Biker, Unfortunately not a single link you provided suggested that the bad guys were committing the act because of the CO job. Bar fights, robbery, cycle theft, and court testimony are some that come to mind.

In your mind how does ordinary crime that happens to a CO equal an increase in danger from former inmates?

That should be enough to prove that CO's face danger on the outside.

BTW I never said CO's don't face danger outside prison. We all do. Crime happens to everyone.

So please provide proof that the danger CO's face on the outside is higher due to their job. Try reading the linked articles next time.

 

[JN01]

Where's your statistics to prove that ex-cons only attack COs who abuse them?

 

[garryc]

Back to the subject at hand, what's the reports on the Ruger SR9c?

 

[Glenn Dee]

As I've stated in other posts...

I believe squairly that Corrections officers, and detention deputies are a level of law enforcement. Like off duty police officers, off duty corrections officers face similar if not greater personal danger as a result of their duties.

First off There are no good guys within the prison/jail population as there are in the community at large. Corrections officers are imersed in a society of people who have already served notice of their anti-social bend. Further corrections officers are outnumbered by the hundreds to one. In order to maintain a safe productive work envioronment for officers, staff, and inmates these officers must enforce rule's and laws and control violence without firearms for the most part.

Given the proliferation of gangs within the prison proper, and their reach and ability to effect peoples life outside the prison. I believe that Corrections officers should be allowed by law to be armed.

OK End of rant. As a corrections officer or detention deputy should make every effort to have the ability to protect himself and his family. I think the kind, calibre, or make of his weapon should be personal, and not taken lightly.

A poster mentioned that a corrections officer who had not abused anyone would have nothing to worry about. Thats just silly. As I mentioned a gang may want to send a message by harming a random or particular officer. Again I may have a better understanding of the criminal element based on my few years in law enforcement. Criminals DO NOT!!! follow the same linier logic that most of us would call normal. More than a few inmates suffer from various emotional, and or mental disorders and may be a danger to all law enforcement but particularly corrections officers. Remember... The only thing keeping these people in that big gray place and away from all of us is the corrections officers.

Keeping the post on track about firearms. I was fortunate to live in a state that recognized these issues, and corrections officers, local, county, and state were sworn peace officers. The local officers I knew and shot with mostly carried the same off duty .38 spl chiefs, det specials, and sp101' s as the local cops carried. (NYC department of Corrections) The Dept issued 4" HB model 10 revolvers to officers in transport, and I think 2" model 10's to investigators. But I believe all officers had the choice to use their own personal gun. They also had long arms, shot guns, and automatic weapons. Later when the NYPD transitioned to automatic pistols, so the the Department of corrections, and I saw Glock 19's as the replacements for the 4" model 10's. The State Dept of corrections I believe were also issued model 10's. Most of the guys I knew from State purchase their own model 10's. Not sure about the various counties.


Glenn D.

 

[garryc]

We are slated to transition to a Glock 23. Seems like an ok gun, little big for what I want and how I want to carry. I was thinking the Kahr, now I'm looking at the SR9c. I figure I'd carry the 10 round in the gun, and the 17 as a mag change. I figure the SR9c has a mag disconnect, one feature I do not like.

 

[threegun]

Where's your statistics to prove that ex-cons only attack COs who abuse them?

Don't have any. As I stated in my post it was just my thought. I'm curious as I can't recall a single time in my life of ever hearing of a released convict attacking a CO he recognized while off duty. Still waiting for the stats to support the claim.

Understand it doesn't matter to me which way this goes. If I'm wrong so be it. I will be enlightened. However when folks call me names for asking a question it becomes somewhat personal.

 

[armoredman]

There was a video of a NJ CO sitting on the front steps of his brownstone when an ex-inmate attacked him. CO was armed, killed ex inmate. No, I don't remember where the story was from except the state and I don't have a link. Was actually shown it in briefing once. I also knew a murderer who did 25 flat who would NEVER attack a female CO - he'd wait until the next male officer came by to attack. He's been out for a few years now, left the state, have no idea what he's done since then.
1700 inmates on one yard? I'll believe it - last yard I ran as a Sgt had 1200 with 32 staff, including me.
We have always had the same carry authority as any LEO in AZ, but the law changes makes that pretty meaningless except when I go to school for my son.
Carry what you are comfortable with and can shoot well. If a 38 revolver is what you do best with, then carry it. Better six well aimed shots than 32 randoms into a condo behind the BG. practice reloads with good speedloaders.
For those who haven't been inside the wire involuntarily, contact your local DOC for a tour - they can be arranged.
DOC, doing 20 years, 8 hours at a time.

 

[garryc]

Yep, all locks open, free movement. Often my yard 2 was pulled, leaving me alone. Responders available if called? Sure. Do you know how long two minutes can be?

 

[JN01]

Quote:
Where's your statistics to prove that ex-cons only attack COs who abuse them?

Don't have any. As I stated in my post it was just my thought. I'm curious as I can't recall a single time in my life of ever hearing of a released convict attacking a CO he recognized while off duty. Still waiting for the stats to support the claim.

Understand it doesn't matter to me which way this goes. If I'm wrong so be it. I will be enlightened. However when folks call me names for asking a question it becomes somewhat personal.

Yep, and when you imply that (potential) victims are somehow to blame for whatever trouble may find them, they take it personally as well.

I expect that there are no readily available statistics to prove the point one way or another. The folks that actually work in that situation probably have a better grasp of what really goes on than someone who never has, I suspect.

 

[pro tc]

morel of the story is we all need to be prepared.god bless anyone that works in any form of law enforcement.
pro