Negligent Discharge at Gun Show

L

LewSchiller

New member
This weekend a dealer negligently discharged a firearm during set-up at a local gun show. My wife and I were there as we sell at all our local shows.
Thank God nobody got hurt...but the individual is facing charges and word is their FFL is in jeopardy.

I post this because all too often people come up to us looking for a holster and present loaded weapons that were not strapped off at the door. They walk right past huge signs advising that loaded firearms are not allowed. When I call them on it they look all surprised and tell me they didn't think it applied to them - they have a CCW Permit.

I seriously doubt anybody on this forum would hold this opinion...but you may know somebody who does - or you may be at a show and one way or another learn that a guy has a loaded weapon on them.

For the sake of all - you have to alert security and have it dealt with.
At shows we can be lax when it comes to safe handling. Our guard is down.
We're handling dozens of guns - trying holsters - trying grips - it's no place for a loaded firearm.

An event like this could have been catastrophic. A few years back a dog was killed at a show by a guy who dry fired a rifle he had aimed at the dog. There was a round in the chamber. A holster vendor was injured prior to that. He ended up paying fines and for his injuries...not the person who skirted security and brought in the loaded gun.

Finally - events like this could be used to shut down shows....and we don't want that.

Please....help us keep shows safe.

Lew
 
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The trouble is dangerous people, not loaded guns.

I could walk any where on this planet at any time, with my loaded gun, and not be the slightest danger to any person, any where.

I would be no more dangerous at a gun show, shopping for holsters, with my CCW on my hip, than I would be to the guy standing in my pizza shop right now, because I wouldn't handle my loaded gun any more than I am right now... which is not at all.

Stupid is the problem, not the loaded guns.
 
If by stupid you mean failing to comply with the requirement that all firearms brought in be unloaded and strapped off - I agree with you.
 
I agree Brian but since we have no way to screen for stupid what other option does one have other than prohibit a loaded gun at a show.
 
LewSchiller said:
If by stupid you mean failing to comply with the requirement that all firearms brought in be unloaded and strapped off - I agree with you.
Click to expand...

I mean "stupid" by the whole thing, actually.

Why does that rule need to exist? Stupid people.

Who ignores the rule? Stupid (and dishonest) people.

Who tries out holsters with a loaded gun, in a room full of people where there is no safe direction? Stupid people.

If I really felt the need to "try out" holsters, I'd get a blue gun. I wouldn't use my CCW, loaded or otherwise, because it is ALWAYS loaded, as are all guns.

I would go to the gun show (in a world without the rule that's only neccesary because people are stupid) and I would have my CCW strapped on my hip, loaded as always, and it would stay there the whole time. I would try out holsters with the blue gun, if I felt so compelled, and would be no more danger at the gun show than I am every where else, every single day.

Other non-stupid people would find a similar solution.

Stupid people are the problem.
 
Ok Brian - sorry I brought it up.
I should have just dismissed the whole thing by saying "Stupid People" to myself rather than bring the problem to light.
But may I suggest that you bring your own Blue Gun equipped and weighted exactly as yours. We can't possibly have them all and truth is they don't make them all.

Stupid People...why didn't I think of that.
I must be one of them.
 
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Its virtually the same policy you will find at most gunstores, they don't want people handling loaded firearms on their premises. So if you bring in your long gun for a repair or to consign it, you need to make sure its action is open and empty. If its your carry piece, you don't walk in pull it out of your holster.
True the gunstore probably won't insist on running a ziptie thru the action of your unloaded gun, but the principle is the same.
No one handles a loaded firearm.

I think all of us has seen these same stupid people Brian spoke of, doing stupid things that no one in their right mind should do. Whether its at a gun show, a retail gun store, at the range, or at home.
 
I'll be attending my first gun show this month.

I CCW a Beretta Nano.

Please walk me through what "strapped off" means, and the process I should expect. I'm thinking I should just leave my magazine and bullets in the car?

Thanks.
 
Who tries out holsters with a loaded gun, in a room full of people where there is no safe direction? Stupid people.
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Unfortunately, organizers and venue owners are concerned with serving masses, not individuals. As such, they're going to pass blanket policies, which are often motivated by the actions of the lowest common denominator.

And that's the yokel who whips a loaded gun out to try in a holster.
 
Campbed... at the entrance to any gunshow, there will be a table set up with a LEO (or show personnel, but here at the Hampton Roads shows, it's usually 2 cops) who will ensure your gun is unloaded, and place a ziptie through the action. Most are pretty good about making sure the connector on the ziptie ends up at the tip of the barrel so you can still reinsert it into your holster.

TIP: I always eject the magazine and unload in my car, and then holster it with the slide locked back... that way when I hand it to the LEO at the table to zip-tie, I'm handing him a visibly cleared and safed weapon. I'll still carry in a full magazine in my pocket though.
 
As someone already mentioned, we as a society can't readily screen someone on the spot for being stupid.

If we could come up with some sort of machine or process by which to do it, we would all be better off.

As we know, some people should never have children. Some people should never be allowed to drive. And, some people should never be allowed to be anywhere near a firearm, let alone carry one on their person in public.

But, as we all know, all of the above is permitted. Stupid exists all around us. All we can do, is try to the best of our individual ability to recognize that fact and keep our distance the best we can.
 
Scary. I always assumed ALL guns at shows were strapped, never thought about CCW holders whipping out loaded weapons. There is a local gun show this weekend, I was going to try to get rid of some unwanted ammo, maybe I'll just send it along with my buddy who is going :p

I also agree the problem is stupidity. Even if I carried (which I don't); I can't think of any safer place (maybe the police station), with less chance of crime ( or needing a carry) than a gun show!

If anyone is interested I was going to try a get rid of stuff I just can't see myself shooting anymore, or ever. 125rnds of 7.62x51 FMN NATO ammo, 2 boxes of 180gr. Black Talons. The Black Talons I've had for years but am never gonna shoot, the FMN surplus shot pretty well (sub-MOA) but fouled my gun more than I like.
 
Shows are safe places. This was the first ND in over 2 years. But it takes vigilance to keep it that way.
If I ran a show there would be metal detectors - to be sure those coming declare and clear and on the way out to prevent theft - which does happen.
 
Ok Brian - sorry I brought it up.
I should have just dismissed the whole thing by saying "Stupid People" to myself rather than bring the problem to light.
But may I suggest that you bring your own Blue Gun equipped and weighted exactly as yours. We can't possibly have them all and truth is they don't make them all.

Stupid People...why didn't I think of that.
I must be one of them.
Click to expand...

Apparently I am not expressing my point clearly because I can't imagine how that would be your response if I were.
 
I have worked the door at small local gun shows, everyone gets asked if they are carrying any firearms if they are they are made safe normally by use of a zip tie or two. If they lie and say no then get caught with one they have broken the law and carried into a place where it is posted against such, they then are a problem for LE. BTW it is very common for someone to hand you a loaded firearm to "safe", I even had one where the young man handed me an AR/M4 with no mag, I cycled the action and "viola" a live round popped out onto the floor. He was quite shaken that he had made the mistake, but mistakes lead to negligent discharges. Also had a holster maker who kept what appeared to be a un-tied 1911 type , however he showed me that he had actually removed the barrel from it so he could use it so demonstrate his holsters, no problem, never heard of a barrelless pistol going bang. My only problem with the zip tie system is that sometimes you get people at the door who shall we say are a little over zelous and will put a zip tie that defies you to cut it off later without damaging the bluing or wood. I keep a pair of thin lead trimming cutters for removal and am careful to leave a little slack for easy removal.
 
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