Need help going Progressive (handgun only)

You mentioned tumbling dirty brass. You could save money on media if you wash the brass instead.

Been there. Done that. The problem is, the water gets in the primer pockets - which still has the primer in it - so it takes forever to dry. Or, if you try to decap while wet, it makes a wet mess everywhere.

As far as saving money on media, I use less than one container per year. What's a container. . $15?

As far as brass prep goes, I've tried it every way it can be done. The way I'm doing it now is the right way for me. Any other method or process, I can instantly explain a reason why it doesn't work.
 
I understand you have a process you like ....

but I would challenge you to reconsider the idea that inspecting the powder levels is a guarantee that everything is fine on the powder drops..../ because I don't believe you can see, even with a very bright light - if a powder is varying by 0.1 grain ...or even 0.2 or 0.3 grain...visually.

There are just too many loads where the Min and Max are only 0.4 grain apart...where your eyes just can't pick up the variation / and while you can certainly see a significant reduction in powder, or no powder, or an overcharge ... a powder check die is way more accurate than your eyes.

but test yourself......put 8 or 10 cases on the bench ....some with as little as 0.3 gr below your target drop...and see if you can pick them out / or better yet, make it a blind test - where your buddy makes the powder drops - and doesn't tell you if he made any light or heavy..or how many he did one way or the other - and see if you can pick them out. It'll be easier with a bulky powder - than a fine powder / so you can have more assurance with the bulkier powders.../ but don't fool yourself into thinking seeing is believing...
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I've done the test with a number of my buddies -- that have lots of reloading experience...and none of us can pick out the cases with a variation of 0.2 gr...with any consistency. But a powder check die ...on a Dillon 650 ...will catch as little a variation as 0.1gr even using a fine grain powder like TiteGroup...
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because I don't believe you can see, even with a very bright light - if a powder is varying by 0.1 grain ...or even 0.2 or 0.3 grain...visually.

Heh, no I can't, of course. No need for tests. I probably can't see a 0.5gn difference, if I had to guess.

That's not what I'm looking for. I'm only looking for something drastic in nature - the double, or the squib, basically.

The other part of this, is I'm very pleased with the performance of my 31 year old RCBS Uniflow. Unique - the worst metering propellant I use - varies about 0.15-ish, maybe - maybe - 2/10ths grains at the most. Everything else rarely varies more than a 1/10th. That works for me. And will continue to do so.

Also, I didn't buy the RL 550. I bought the BL 550. The BL doesn't have the priming or powder drop hardware. Besides, I'm not dealing with powder bars. I like adjustable meters.
 
My mistake ...you did say you bought the BL 550 ...( my mind was referring to the RL 550 B....)....I know better....:o ..

It sounds to me like you've got a good handle on what you're doing ...I hope the new press does everything you need it to do !
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Even with the powder check die installed on a 650 press...I still have a small dental type mirror mounted to the press...and a good halogen drafting table lamp with an adjustable arm ...that lets me take a peek into the case before I set the bullet on top of the case in station 4...( just to reassure myself ) ...

and I agree that Unique is a difficult power to meter for handguns ...although I still use it in .357 Mag....and some shotgun loads ( at least until Hodgdon Universal comes back into inventory )...

Take care ..!

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89914&d=1370633898
 
Thanks....

Dillon 650 is in center..../ the presses to the right ( red and black ) ...are MEC 9000 HN ( hydraulic presses ) ...for shotshells 12ga, a 20ga ...and a 28ga and .410 ....

shop doubles for my reloading...and as a woodshop...( its not that big ...16' X 12' or so ....) but its all plumbed for dust pickup -- and its in the house, so its heated and dry....

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88408&d=1364503603

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88407&d=1364502849
 
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You mentioned tumbling dirty brass. You could save money on media if you wash the brass instead.

Been there. Done that. The problem is, the water gets in the primer pockets - which still has the primer in it - so it takes forever to dry. Or, if you try to decap while wet, it makes a wet mess everywhere.

As far as saving money on media, I use less than one container per year. What's a container. . $15?
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"Taking forever to dry" is not insurmountable, but I can appreciate the desire to keep moving and reuse the same batch of brass. I bought an inexpensive dehydartor with five trays (caliber sorts) that heats and blows for 2 hours at 154 degrees. Works great.

I will remain skeptical about putting dirty brass in media and only needing a yearly refresh of media. You must not be processing much brass.
 
You must not be processing much brass.

I probably load/shoot/tumble about 15K rounds a year. I put dryer sheets in with the corn cob. Seems to pull away a lot of crud. They come out black after every tumbling. I don't know how much difference the sheets make, but the media is clean enough to get the brass nice n shiny after about an hour.
 
If I under stand your plan you only plan to seat the bullet and crimp in the progressive mode ????? If so you're only saving one step over a single stage.
 
To each his own, but you'd have been better off just getting another single stage or two to set up so you don't have to change dies instead of wasting the potential of a semi-progressive.

I don't understand the cleaning of brass twice - seems like a lot of wasted effort for zero additional gain to me. Decap the dirty brass with a universal decapping die (not sure how the 550b works with primers, but the LNL AP has a nice tube that the spent primers drop out of. I use an empty whiskey bottle to catch them, almost no dirt). Once they are decapped, tumble in SSTL pins, dry and then rock and roll. I only decap once, I only clean once, I only handle the brass as much as required. And decapping on the progressive is a dream compared to doing it on a single stage. I can fly through 1000 rounds before I even know it. As far as "taking forever to dry", it takes less than an hour most of the time in my garage with a simple box fan blowing on them - with the primers gone, you get air flow through the brass. It helps to take a minute to line the brass up with the mouths facing the fan, but that is absolutely the worst part of the process.

As far as priming - those that say you can't feel the primer on a progressive either have nerve damage in their hands, or haven't really used a progressive. You can feel the primer seating without a doubt.

Charging - not sure why you want to continue to use your uniflow, but your call. I can easily see into a pistol case on my LNL (especially with the light kit), and the powder cop die gives me a second visual indication that the charge is correct. I don't hand weigh every single charge for pistol. I'd quit reloading if that was something I felt was absolutely necessary. Once my charge weight is dialed in, I make periodic and random inspections and weigh charges - and I've yet to be more than .1 grain off, and even that is a rarity. Once you get the mechanics set up, there should be almost no variation.

I know you are set in your ways, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But if you are going to get new equipment, what's the point in not using said equipment the way it was designed? It's no different than trying to force a square peg into a round hole - you aren't really gaining much of an advantage over what you have, you are essentially using a blue tool instead of a green one now. I'm sure it floats your boat, and that's ultimately the important part I suppose.
 
Some deviation perhaps from NickCS 's OP (maybe he has that one ironed out), but now there are two of us who don't require 15 hours more or less to obtain polished brass by tumbling. We can get it done in an hour (re: post 28). I presume Nick primarily tumbles handgun cases; I do rifle cases. As Nick states, the use of fabric softener strips to remove the dust accumulation is an important part of the process and should not be overlooked.
 
"15 hours of tumbling" reads as hyperbole to me. When I run washed and dried brass in well-used corn cob media, pre-treated with polish. I have show grade brass in a standard run time of two hours. The last batch got left running over night, maybe 9-10 hours total, and it came out like jewelry...makes you hate to use something so pretty.

On the dryer sheet idea, it will strip treatment out of media, especially evident on the rouge mix with nut shells (red sheet comes out). Seems like a good idea with untreated corn cob. Then there's the question of whether the sheet is used from the dryer or right from the box.
 
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If I understand your plan, you only plan to seat the bullet and crimp in the progressive mode ?

No. I also plan on reconditioning my brass (decap/resize, flair); but in a separate operation. So I'll be setting up two toolheads: one for brass recondition; one for loading.

If so, you're only saving one step over a single stage.

Not correct. I will be saving one step on the prep side; and at least one step on the loading side. But with some of my loads (my competition loads, for instance), I seat/taper crimp/roll crimp. So I'll be saving two steps on those.

So in total, I'll be making two press strokes, instead of five. That's a 60% savings and is thus, significant.

I don't understand the cleaning of brass twice - seems like a lot of wasted effort for zero additional gain to me. Decap the dirty brass with a universal decapping die. Once they are decapped, tumble in SSTL pins, dry and then rock and roll.

I've tried this. Doesn't work for me. First, my uni decap die sends the spent primers literally flying everywhere (I realize it may not do this with my new press - I'll check it out). So that's a show-stopper by itself. But wait, there's more. . .

Also, after I clean my brass, I don't like handling it. Skin oils tarnish brass (especially mine, for some reason). So I see that as a reason to SS pin tumble as late in the process as possible. Therefore, I SS pin tumble after brass prep is complete. When I load, I use gloves, btw. I also load a lot of lead, so the gloves have a dual purpose about 75% of the time.

Also, the stuff left behind on the inside of the case mouth after firing seems to have something of a lubricating effect during the flairing process. I've SS pin tumbled before flairing, and it doesn't feel right. There seems to be a galling effect when the inside of the case is too clean. So one more reason to SS pin tumble after flairing.

Also, since I SS pin tumble after all the brass prep, I spray lube my cases for resizing. The press stroke effort is so greatly reduced - which can't be a bad thing - that it has become a habit I now consider indispensable. The SS pin tumble cleans off the lube after it's no longer needed.

As far as priming - those that say you can't feel the primer on a progressive either have nerve damage in their hands, or haven't really used a progressive. You can feel the primer seating without a doubt.

Fair enough. I wouldn't know. I've never primed on a progressive. But 31 years of perfection would be foolhardy to throw away. Every primer I have ever seated with my Lee Auto-Prime has worked. Besides, I purchased the BL 550; not the RL 550. The one I got doesn't have the priming hardware.

Charging - not sure why you want to continue to use your uniflow

As already addressed in post #23: "The other part of this, is I'm very pleased with the performance of my 31 year old RCBS Uniflow. Unique - the worst metering propellant I use - varies about 0.15-ish, maybe - maybe - 2/10ths grains at the most. Everything else rarely varies more than a 1/10th. That works for me. And will continue to do so."

And also as addressed in post #15: "I have loading blocks that hold fifty rounds. And in the case of 38/357, I have four of them. So sometimes I powder charge up to 200 rounds at once with my Uniflow. Once they're all charged, I pick up the block and inspect the level of each and every round under strong light. This is a critical quality control point that I will not forsake. I have never had a squib or double charge, and this process is the reason why."

All my processes are thoroughly premeditated. Others are welcome to second-guess them; but I have a logical reason for everything I do, and the way I do it.

Anyway, I have a plan on how I'm going to use my new progressive press. But I've been around long enough to know that things change and nothing remains the same. Who knows how I'm going to use it five years from now :)
 
Re: Real Gun

Well yes, 15 hours of tumbling wasn't to be taken literally; just a shot I suppose at those who seem to insist on five or six hours. And there are a few. Use whatever combination of media ingredients that do the job that you are satisfied with. Tumbling times and methods seem to be the one area where OCD behavior is at its most prominent.
 
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You think lacquering brass is funny....

there are a few guys at the indoor range I frequent ...that take a colored permanent marker ( like purple, or something easy to see )....because they want all of "their brass" back....not just junk laying around.../ and they get a little miffed, if it bounces around and someone else sweeps it up...( floors are concrete...brass bounces forward off lane separators, back toward the benches, or sometimes a lane or two over...)....
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but they do make "brass catchers"... ( like a butterfly net ) - that you can set up and adjust for your foot position - and your gun's ejector - for that position, so the firing gun will toss 99% of the brass right into the net....
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personally, I just sweep up whatever brass is in my lane....clean, inspect and reuse ....( and if one of the "marks his own brass guys" wants to, he can get down on his hands and knees and paw thru my pile...if he wants...
 
Yes, the above brass recovery situation is sort of like the problem with Garands that often throw fired cases forward and way off into right field, sometimes three or four firing points away. Then if you try to retrieve your own brass, shooters at those firing points tend to think you are taking their brass. And with fired handgun cases at indoor ranges, some shooters do get a bit carried away with the brooms and try to make sure that every piece of fired brass gets swept forward of the firing line before you have a chance to retrieve yours. An advantage for using revolvers.
 
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I've considered Progressives on an off for several years, like Nick I'm a bit anal about clean brass and it seems to me that two elements of a progressive are turn offs.
1. Lack of ability to clean primer pockets ( as I've said before tumbling your brass without primer cleaning is akin to washing your pants but not your underwear)
2. Not being able to visually observe the amount of powder thrown is, to me, a bit unnerving.
Like Nick, 30 some years of reloading no squibs no double charges, the only thing I do different
is to throw the charge and visually inspect on the way to seating the bullet.
 
Why do you want a progressive press if you are going to do sooo much brass handling? I haven't been reloading the years you have, but I can turn out your monthly allotment in a few hours on my load master. I never had a single stage press so I cannot relate to the arduous work related to making perfect ammo. None of my pistols mind if the ammo comes from a box or my press, so I clean and then reload. I guess we have a different purpose for reloading. I want ammo to shoot.
 
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