AcridSaint
New member
All other things being equal, do you want to be the "slow" one in a gunfight? I don't. Do I think other things are equally or more important? Sure. Do I think it's pointless to be able to deploy quickly? No.
Need for draw speed a myth?
- Thread starter mikerault
- Start date
Speed of draw should be higher on the list of importance for many reasons some not listed here yet. The one missing component that may keep us alive during an armed confrontation is duress. Your adversary will likely lose accuracy as his danger level rises. So before I present my weapon he has little to fear and thus can perform to his normal skill level. Once my weapon becomes visible there should be a marked rise in his duress level which in turn should diminish his skill. The sooner this happens of course the better. The sooner you have lead headed in his direction the better. So speed of presentation has greater effect than simply beating your opponent.
So what do you do with all the civilians in public places anyone of which could turn from patron to robber/assaulter?
Pay attention to your surroundings and take note to how many people get extremely close to you. The line at Publix or perhaps while pumping gas. To and from the pumps. Understand that all bad guys don't look shady. The guy in the check out line behind you decides to pounce. The guy who looks like he is with the tree pruning crew. The guy pretending to talk on the pay phone.
Point is it can and does happen and even to those of us who have excellent and consistent situational awareness skills.
Double Naught Spy
New member
You should never have to draw your gun, but that isn't the real world.
People find that they feel uncomfortable in situations on a fairly regular basis if they are dealing with the public or are otherwise on-the-go about town. You can't go around drawing your gun every time somebody you think doesn't look prim and proper enough that makes you feel uncomforable.
curmudgeon1
New member
Even if one's mind is in condition red, there may be a situation that draw-speed could be a life-saving factor; for anyone who practices drawing once in a while, it quickly becomes apparent that smoothness of motion, point-aiming, and "take-your-time-but-hurry-up" trigger control IS speed.
Most of us are on the right track
I suppose we must review the basics in every thread.
Avoidance is the best defense and key element of any credible self defense method. I'm sure most of us agree with that. If you do not, you need to rethink your strategy.
Now lets move on to where avoidance is not an option. Self defense obviously means that you are protecting against an offensive assault. You are disadvantaged from the get go. The better you are at quickly producing your hand gun the better. Two seconds in a gun battle, could easily be two or three lifetimes.
Is having your weapon in your hand before the shooting starts preferable to having it holstered? Well, duh, of course. Is not being practiced at smoothly and quickly producing it on a moments notice a good thing? Absolutely not.
I suppose we must review the basics in every thread.
Avoidance is the best defense and key element of any credible self defense method. I'm sure most of us agree with that. If you do not, you need to rethink your strategy.
Now lets move on to where avoidance is not an option. Self defense obviously means that you are protecting against an offensive assault. You are disadvantaged from the get go. The better you are at quickly producing your hand gun the better. Two seconds in a gun battle, could easily be two or three lifetimes.
Is having your weapon in your hand before the shooting starts preferable to having it holstered? Well, duh, of course. Is not being practiced at smoothly and quickly producing it on a moments notice a good thing? Absolutely not.
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I think a problem with these color coded awareness levels as invented by Jeff Cooper and continued by the Committee for Homeland Security is that you cannot maintain a high level of awareness indefinately. That isn't to say it is pointless, although the system that Homeland Security used was, because it didn't come with any instructions on what to do, specifically. But for the rest of us, it is probably overdone. People usually have developed their own system anyway that fits with their own life. It just may not involve firearms and it probably won't make good reading.
Likewise, maintaining a decent level of proficiency is another thing, and what constitutes a decent level of proficiency is a whole subject in itself.
I was reading what Elmer Keith had to say on the subject of combat quick draw last night in a magazine article from 1960. He thought it was a post-graduate work with a handgun and, besides, he also thought it was a rarely needed skill. He thought you should be able to make hits on a head and shoulders silhoulette at 300 yards with a handgun before you should attempt quick draw. These days, I'd have trouble doing that with a rifle. So he had high standards. But he also said that if you had to start your draw on someone else's signal, your time would be over a second. So in some ways, he was very realistic, too.
Likewise, maintaining a decent level of proficiency is another thing, and what constitutes a decent level of proficiency is a whole subject in itself.
I was reading what Elmer Keith had to say on the subject of combat quick draw last night in a magazine article from 1960. He thought it was a post-graduate work with a handgun and, besides, he also thought it was a rarely needed skill. He thought you should be able to make hits on a head and shoulders silhoulette at 300 yards with a handgun before you should attempt quick draw. These days, I'd have trouble doing that with a rifle. So he had high standards. But he also said that if you had to start your draw on someone else's signal, your time would be over a second. So in some ways, he was very realistic, too.
Don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but, since criminal attacks can happen quickly, why would anyone of average intellect or above question the need to access their weapon quickly in some situations?
Not saying your intellect isn't average, but I am asking why you'd suggest that speed in presenting a weapon can't be important.
Yes, I know, being alert and avoiding the situation is best, but it's not always possible.
I never said speed wasn't important, just this idea that we all must try to reach microsecond draw speeds is rediculous. A draw that is smooth, efficient and gets you on point is what is critical. People tend to concentrate on speed over proper form and smoothness. I also contend that what you have on during practice will always be different to what you wear everyday.
Usually it is the one casting aspersions who feels challenged. Sounds like I hit a nerve.
I practice for smoothness and getting on target, not for speed. I also practice in the clothes I wear everyday and practice both good and off hand sides as well as with and without glasses. Also do single and double hand stances with both sides.
As to intelligence, I will stack mine against yours any day of the week.
I practice for smoothness and getting on target, not for speed. I also practice in the clothes I wear everyday and practice both good and off hand sides as well as with and without glasses. Also do single and double hand stances with both sides.
As to intelligence, I will stack mine against yours any day of the week.
I don't even understand the question. It's like asking "does rate of fire on a machine gun really matter? Afterall, it's already full-auto!" Or another analogy, "How fast does the Quarterback really need to release the football?" 
You practice the draw, slow and smooth. You drill the proper fundamentals, and over time, get better. The better and more comfortable you get, the faster you become.
Speed itself isn't the objective. You train for proper form and reliability under any condition. Quickness comes on it's own.
You practice the draw, slow and smooth. You drill the proper fundamentals, and over time, get better. The better and more comfortable you get, the faster you become.
Speed itself isn't the objective. You train for proper form and reliability under any condition. Quickness comes on it's own.
If my gun is in my holster when I find myself in a situation where I suddenly need a gun, the sooner it is in my hand and pointed at the threat the better off I am. Whether being charged by someone with a knife like a Tueller drill scenario, or charged by a vicious dog, if I see a bad guy reaching for a weapon, or I am already behind the power curve in a fight and need to get caught up, faster is always better. The less time and attention you have to spend on getting your gun out, the more time and attention you can spend on solving the problem.
Someone made a comment about people concentrating on speed over proper form and smoothness. Well, If you don't use proper form, and you are not smooth; then you will never be fast.
Someone made a comment about people concentrating on speed over proper form and smoothness. Well, If you don't use proper form, and you are not smooth; then you will never be fast.
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OldMarksman
Staff
That's good.
That may ultimately prove to have not been good, unless what you are trying to say is this:
It almost sounds like form is more important than speed to some people and if you are fast without having the proper form, then it doesn't count. But nobody here has described the proper form. Likewise, speed may not come with practice but hopefully a smooth draw will, which may count for more when it is important.
I believe proper form is what works best for you, given your style of carry, your physiology, and any limitations (such as from injury or clothing). Speed without form, in my opinion, is simply haste, and leads to fumbles and mistakes.
Proper form is borne out from learning fundamentals from those who are experts at the skill, getting multiple points of view, and trying them out. Over time, developing the best form for you. Which, is always evolving. Ever round you shoot, your should learn something. It's an opportunity to grow. As we age, our bodies and abilities change. This may mean our form changes, even if ever so slightly.
Brian Enos' writing really gets to the heart of this.
Proper form is borne out from learning fundamentals from those who are experts at the skill, getting multiple points of view, and trying them out. Over time, developing the best form for you. Which, is always evolving. Ever round you shoot, your should learn something. It's an opportunity to grow. As we age, our bodies and abilities change. This may mean our form changes, even if ever so slightly.
Brian Enos' writing really gets to the heart of this.