National ID Card

There was an old ex-nsa guy that used to live by me, I only talked to him on a few occasions before he moved away. I remember something very disturbing though from the last time I saw him. I had just read about the national id on jpfo, and asked him about it since I was really concerned about it. He said that even though it was passed, it would not go into effect, and that he didn't think there was anything we had to worry about for another 14 years.

I was so put at ease by what he was telling me, that I didn't even notice the ominous way he said 14 years. It wasn't untill after I got home that it struck me. Of course, he was gone before I could ask him what he meant, so this story really has no point to it. Just something that happened and has been bothering me since...
 
For those of you that are new on the scene, it doesn't much matter how much or even whether or not you like this. REAL ID was passed last year and is now the law of the land - became P.L. 109-13 on 5/11/2005.

It will be required of any citizen who wishes to do anything of a federal nature, including getting on a flight. Mandated to be in fully implimented by 2009.

It will be your "new" drivers license.
 
I don't have a problem with it, really. A well run government needs to know who belongs here and who doesn't. We take census, issue SS#s, issue passports, state ids and drivers licenses, CCWs, etc.

I would like to see these IDs forge-proof and security against stealing and misusing.

I would like to see them MEAN something. If you don't have one, you don't belong here and you don't get any free government benefits. Let's clear out the immigrants who don't belong.

It's much different than "Papers Please." We're not invading another nation and rounding up THEIR citiznes in this scenario. We're simply cleaning OUR house of those that don't belong.

Those of you are against this as another way to "track" you down, why are you afraid of being "tracked" down anyway? And do you honestly think that the government, if it were interested in finding you, couldn't do so already? You've probably already got at least 5 forms of ID, credit cards, etc. that they could locate you in 5 minutes at your home, work, or relatives.

If this card will streamline applications for jobs, credit, verfication of identity etc. then it may be a benefit.

Other than the cost, which probably boils down to $5 per person, I don't see it as a problem really. No more so than the SS# which was never intended to be an identity card and which has become an identity card and is easily stolen and misused.
 
Nicotine just curious...14 year from when. Was this recent or did it happen a long time ago. Just wondering how much time I got.
 
just about a month ago, not really sure what he was implying eigther. Could be nothing, but it gave me a bad feeling and thought I should mention it here. Maybe somebody knows what he was reffering to?
 
Lead Counsel-

Considering that identity theft is the number one crime in the country right now, the last thing I want to do is have a card issued to me that clearly provides every detail about me that a thief would need. Also, if you look at the further requirements the card will put upon you you will be unable to operate in our current society without this card. In addition, providing the cop out that the government can already locate us if they wanted too is further evidence that there is no need for an all in one ID card. After all, if they wanted to intrude upon my civil liberties they already could. Saying that if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about is another way to allow those in power to exploit that power. What if the day came that citizens exercised their constitutional right to revolt and establish a new goverment? When we become the enemies to our government then it must be said that they have become our enemies as well.
"You and I were long friends: you are now my enemy, and I am yours."
Benjamin Franklin
 
I don't have a problem with it, really. A well run government needs to know who belongs here and who doesn't. We take census, issue SS#s, issue passports, state ids and drivers licenses, CCWs, etc.

I would like to see these IDs forge-proof and security against stealing and misusing.

I would like to see them MEAN something. If you don't have one, you don't belong here and you don't get any free government benefits. Let's clear out the immigrants who don't belong.

It's much different than "Papers Please." We're not invading another nation and rounding up THEIR citiznes in this scenario. We're simply cleaning OUR house of those that don't belong.

Those of you are against this as another way to "track" you down, why are you afraid of being "tracked" down anyway? And do you honestly think that the government, if it were interested in finding you, couldn't do so already? You've probably already got at least 5 forms of ID, credit cards, etc. that they could locate you in 5 minutes at your home, work, or relatives.

If this card will streamline applications for jobs, credit, verfication of identity etc. then it may be a benefit.

Other than the cost, which probably boils down to $5 per person, I don't see it as a problem really. No more so than the SS# which was never intended to be an identity card and which has become an identity card and is easily stolen and misused.
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Funny...I`m sure Adolph and company used similar logic during the 1930`s. Let me just pose the following reasoning: If the purpose of gun registration is to "locate" firearms in order for confiscation to occur, then the purpose of people registration is to "locate" people in order for confiscation to occur.



Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
I'd say it's valid. No need for Godwin (actually, whoever came up with that extension; Godwin's Law is only about the probability of Nazis being mentioned in a thread) to do his work here.
 
It will be required of any citizen who wishes to do anything of a federal nature
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What exactly constitutes "a federal nature"? Buying groceries, I suppose, since many food items are transported across state lines.

And what happens when these cards are forged and identities stolen? Perhaps a microchip implant will prevent most of that.

A microchip implant required to buy groceries. Or perhaps I am just off my rocker.
 
:rolleyes: im glad i have my guns if you know what i mean

(edit:they will never never implant anything in me EVER! IF THEY TRY I WILL START KILLING)
 
You are no longer a citizen.....

The real problem for any citizen is the fact that your ID card becomes YOU. With this in mind, it's so easy for the government in power to render you a NON citizen by revoking your ID card. I also agree strongly with those other posters who have raised the identity theft issue. Organised crime has found a new flowerbed to prosper in over the last ten years or so. Electronic theft and ID theft will be ever more pressing issues for citizens. A colleague at work told me that last week, someone managed to lift $4000 out of his account. I don't know the details but the bank has it under investigation. I also was defrauded out of over $600+ by someone from a retail outlet stealing my card information and using it to purchase items on the internet. There is going to be a massive wave of this type of crime and the financial institutions will struggle to keep a lid on it. I despise the idea of an "all encompassing" ID card.

"ID card please":(
 
they already ask "id card please" when a cop pulls you over all that. not only are your fears already reality but have been for a while now. its heppened with out us even knowing it.
 
I'm still not convinced this is any MORE of a problem than the current system. We operate under the need for convenience and identity verification. Almost nobody works on a cash only basis. Look in your wallet now -- I bet you have at least 3 or more forms of identity.

You are asked for identity everywhere and on almost every transaction or interaction with strangers currently too -- bank tellers, police, everytime you buy something and pay non-cash, etc.

So my question how is a national id card really any WORSE? I think it might be better, frankly. IF the system can be set up forgeproof (they do pretty good at doing that with anti-counterfiting cash, why not with ids), and require it ONLY when asked for by local, state and federal governemnts purely for the purpose of ID, then what's the problem? I do have a problem however if it's on every credit application and internet application though as I do see this as a means of trouble.

Look at the alternative. How well could society truly function if ID cards didn't exist. Identity theft would be EASIER and more fraud would occur if we were just required to take everyone on their word of who they were, their nationality, and what their credit, etc. Society could not function without idenity cards, period.
 
LC-
How far we've come in our increasing trust of an increasingly powerful National Government. Barely 50 years ago Social Security could only be passed with language that it could never be used as a form of ID (just look at the statement on your card). Today, citizens are clamoring for .gov to institute a National ID.

Evidently, intrusive government has become kinder and gentler in the past 50 years; or its citizens dumbed down and lazy.
Rich
 
Evidently, intrusive government has become kinder and gentler in the past 50 years
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That is mostly the response I get when I present the Social Security argument you have just mentioned. The old folks fears were unjustified and never materialized. Is this really true though?
...or its citizens dumbed down and lazy.
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Ever here the analogy of the monkeys and the spray hose? Well here it is if you haven't:

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana over a set of stairs. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and climb toward the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray the other monkeys with cold water.

After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result--the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when any monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace him with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To the monkey's surprise, all the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he'll be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace him with a new one. The new comer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous new comer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.

Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they weren't permitted to climb the stairs or why they're participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know, that's the way it's always been done around here.


My point is that what our elders objected to and what we now object to, after replacement by subsequent generations, becomes "the way it's always been done around here" and noone really even thinks twice about it.
 
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