My Keltec P32 just DIED!!!
- Thread starter revolvergeek
- Start date
Gino,
For me, the answer is yes on all counts.
No other manufacturer makes guns in the niche KT has staked out. Their P11 is about the same size as the PPK, but lighter. The Kahr P9 doesn't have the capacity. The P32 is the sole offering in its class.
A gun as a safety device is a concept that's hard to swallow. A gun is a WEAPON! A safety device is something that will prevent or inhibit people from getting hurt -- including BGs. There are thousands of ways you can get hurt with guns that don't involve BGs. Get that silly notion out of your head!
KT guns are as reliable as any other plastic/aluminum/steel high performance gun made by other manufacturers such as Kahr. Both KT's and Kahrs are used as backup weapons approved by some law enforcement agencies . Guess they must think some of the plastic fantastics are reliable.
Since I have to be nice I'll reserve comment about the plagiarized parachute non-sequitur....
I'm curious about your generosity in sharing your opinion about KTs. Have you ever owned a KT? A Kahr? A Taurus PT-xxx? Or, is your opinion just repeated hearsay itself based on other hearsay?
Your answer makes me wonder why you stated your opinion in the form of questions. ;-)
For me, the answer is yes on all counts.
No other manufacturer makes guns in the niche KT has staked out. Their P11 is about the same size as the PPK, but lighter. The Kahr P9 doesn't have the capacity. The P32 is the sole offering in its class.
A gun as a safety device is a concept that's hard to swallow. A gun is a WEAPON! A safety device is something that will prevent or inhibit people from getting hurt -- including BGs. There are thousands of ways you can get hurt with guns that don't involve BGs. Get that silly notion out of your head!
KT guns are as reliable as any other plastic/aluminum/steel high performance gun made by other manufacturers such as Kahr. Both KT's and Kahrs are used as backup weapons approved by some law enforcement agencies . Guess they must think some of the plastic fantastics are reliable.
Since I have to be nice I'll reserve comment about the plagiarized parachute non-sequitur....
I'm curious about your generosity in sharing your opinion about KTs. Have you ever owned a KT? A Kahr? A Taurus PT-xxx? Or, is your opinion just repeated hearsay itself based on other hearsay?
rugerfreak
New member
Zander--
Did I ever mention any brands names in my posts?? Just because my screen name mentions a manufacturer---doesn't mean that's all I buy or would advise anyone to buy. I never said that any brands were better----but I do know junk when I see it.
Have I ever owned a Kel-tec?? You're joking---Right??
Let's just say I don't like wasting my hard earned dollar.
I've looked at them in the store---overpriced junk. Even those full color ads in the gun rags couldn't make the Kel-tec more appealing.
Now I will make some brand recommendations: I've recently thinned out my handgun collection down to 4 guns------this is what I own now.
1. Blued Ruger Single-Six .22/.22 mag
2. Stainless Ruger Mark II .22
3. Glock 19 9mm
4. Sig P220 .45 acp
Some cheap---some expensive-----ALL good.
As for good gun vs bad gun crap not cutting it-----Are you now the Moderater and now I have to live by your rules??? Again---what a joke.
Did I ever mention any brands names in my posts?? Just because my screen name mentions a manufacturer---doesn't mean that's all I buy or would advise anyone to buy. I never said that any brands were better----but I do know junk when I see it.
Have I ever owned a Kel-tec?? You're joking---Right??
Let's just say I don't like wasting my hard earned dollar.
I've looked at them in the store---overpriced junk. Even those full color ads in the gun rags couldn't make the Kel-tec more appealing.
Now I will make some brand recommendations: I've recently thinned out my handgun collection down to 4 guns------this is what I own now.
1. Blued Ruger Single-Six .22/.22 mag
2. Stainless Ruger Mark II .22
3. Glock 19 9mm
4. Sig P220 .45 acp
Some cheap---some expensive-----ALL good.
As for good gun vs bad gun crap not cutting it-----Are you now the Moderater and now I have to live by your rules??? Again---what a joke.
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Blackhawk,
My first carry gun was a Kel-Tec P11. It was ALMOST a very good gun. If Kel-Tec added another $50-$100 to the price of their guns (and added $50-$100 more quality) they would be very good carry pieces. But they don't. If the price of a Kel-Tec is all that someone can afford, then go ahead and get it. BUT, if you can afford a higher priced gun, why settle for less? Before anyone says, "Is higher priced any better?", answer this question:
Would anyone here say that Kel-Tec's guns are as durable/reliable as a Glock, Sig, Beretta, etc?
A few years ago I used to be a skydiving instructor. When my students asked which gear to buy, I always told them to get the best gear they could afford, cause their life was going to depend on it. At any moment, my life could depend on my carry gun. And I won't have time to send it back and use their "great customer service" if it fails. Sometimes "good enough" just isn't good enough. How much is your life worth?
Sandster was right when he said: "There's no free lunch, you get what you pay for."
My first carry gun was a Kel-Tec P11. It was ALMOST a very good gun. If Kel-Tec added another $50-$100 to the price of their guns (and added $50-$100 more quality) they would be very good carry pieces. But they don't. If the price of a Kel-Tec is all that someone can afford, then go ahead and get it. BUT, if you can afford a higher priced gun, why settle for less? Before anyone says, "Is higher priced any better?", answer this question:
Would anyone here say that Kel-Tec's guns are as durable/reliable as a Glock, Sig, Beretta, etc?
A few years ago I used to be a skydiving instructor. When my students asked which gear to buy, I always told them to get the best gear they could afford, cause their life was going to depend on it. At any moment, my life could depend on my carry gun. And I won't have time to send it back and use their "great customer service" if it fails. Sometimes "good enough" just isn't good enough. How much is your life worth?
Sandster was right when he said: "There's no free lunch, you get what you pay for."
rugerfreak
New member
Amen---Gino
rugerfreak
New member
Neither---too big---heavy---cocked and locked carry is just plain scary------no easy way to de-cock it other than racking the slide and pulling the trigger on an empty chamber. The grip safety is a pain in the rear.
My Glock is carried with an empty chamber also----not feeling all warm and fuzzy with leaving that one fully ready either-------I figure it won't take much to pull the slide back---then start shooting.
My Glock is carried with an empty chamber also----not feeling all warm and fuzzy with leaving that one fully ready either-------I figure it won't take much to pull the slide back---then start shooting.
MedicatedOne
New member
Revolvergeek,
I too like my P32, but I carry my pre-stupidity Smith 342 instead. Alot less to go wrong and I just plain prefer the revolver for pocket carry.
Best of luck,
MO
I too like my P32, but I carry my pre-stupidity Smith 342 instead. Alot less to go wrong and I just plain prefer the revolver for pocket carry.
Best of luck,
MO
HeadHunter
New member
My assistant received a gun from her father. It was one of those funky German revolvers (RG). When she showed it to me the trigger return spring was broken. Uh oh, Caroline, better get that fixed. We were meeting her mother at the range. The mother pulls out her S&W Model 10 and same thing, trigger won't return. Sometimes mechanical devices break. This was just freaky because both had the same problem in a day.
I just shot my P32 today at the range. I used some PMC .32 ACP ball, which upon inspection revealed a very sharp edge on the case mouth. Such rounds in .25 ACP have given a Beretta 950 I once owned feeding fits. I figured I might have a FTF or two. Sure enough, the last round in the mag often wouldn't fully chamber, plus I had a failure to extract.
Now, I could just curse Kel-Tec up and down like many others in this forum. But I knew in advance there was an issue that might cause a problem. I know that previously I fired Federal Eagle, which has more of a crimp at the case mouth on their .32 ACP ammo. That ammunition worked perfectly last time. The fact is you simply can't get away with some things in mini pistols that you can in full-size. The guns are small, the ammo is tiny, and there is less room for error. My .45 Officers ACP can also be finicky with certain ammo, it's just the trade off for having such a short stubby firearm. With the right ammo it works 100%. Same with my Kel-Tec. I just don't expect it to be a 100,000 round wonder!
Now, I could just curse Kel-Tec up and down like many others in this forum. But I knew in advance there was an issue that might cause a problem. I know that previously I fired Federal Eagle, which has more of a crimp at the case mouth on their .32 ACP ammo. That ammunition worked perfectly last time. The fact is you simply can't get away with some things in mini pistols that you can in full-size. The guns are small, the ammo is tiny, and there is less room for error. My .45 Officers ACP can also be finicky with certain ammo, it's just the trade off for having such a short stubby firearm. With the right ammo it works 100%. Same with my Kel-Tec. I just don't expect it to be a 100,000 round wonder!
revolvergeek
New member
Hmmm.. Well, just goes to show that each gun has its preference. I have probably shot 200 rounds or so of the PMC out of mine without a single jam. Worst luck that i had with is was with S&B and Fiocchi ball. Would normally get one jam per mag, often a FTE/FTF combo jam on the second to last round in the mag.
The new PMC JHPs functioned quite well also, but only shot 50 rounds of that so far, and won't be trying anymore until my gun comes back from Keltec.
The new PMC JHPs functioned quite well also, but only shot 50 rounds of that so far, and won't be trying anymore until my gun comes back from Keltec.
revolvergeek:
Sorry that your P-32 "self-destructed". Things break, though it could it of been the result of something you did? I know sometimes I have a maddening ability to break things "accidentally". Course one thing I will say is that Kel-Tech uses plastic not polymer, right? Maybe it was a result of constant stress or a certain repetitous activity that eventually "overstressed" your pistol. Hate to say it but I have never favored shoving a bare pistol in any form of pocket WITHOUT some sort of holster.
DoubleNaughtSpy:
"You know, this may not be an isolated event. Does anybody else have any stories of guns falling apart when not being used? Say like one day you open your safe and find your Colt 1911 in pieces on the safe floor, or your Garand just broke in two?"
Yes it happens with great abandon, though mine go a step further, not only do they break apart for no reason, but they shift parts and pieces. I figure in an infinite universe one day I will find that one of these combinations actually works!
Imagine my surprise when I grab a M-1/G-21 Hybrid!
Hey it could happen!
Jon
Sorry that your P-32 "self-destructed". Things break, though it could it of been the result of something you did? I know sometimes I have a maddening ability to break things "accidentally". Course one thing I will say is that Kel-Tech uses plastic not polymer, right? Maybe it was a result of constant stress or a certain repetitous activity that eventually "overstressed" your pistol. Hate to say it but I have never favored shoving a bare pistol in any form of pocket WITHOUT some sort of holster.
DoubleNaughtSpy:
"You know, this may not be an isolated event. Does anybody else have any stories of guns falling apart when not being used? Say like one day you open your safe and find your Colt 1911 in pieces on the safe floor, or your Garand just broke in two?"
Yes it happens with great abandon, though mine go a step further, not only do they break apart for no reason, but they shift parts and pieces. I figure in an infinite universe one day I will find that one of these combinations actually works!
Imagine my surprise when I grab a M-1/G-21 Hybrid!
Hey it could happen!
Jon
Gino,
Kahr's solution was to permanently attach steel rails to the aluminum frame. Is that better? IMO, arguably yes from an engineering perspective. However, KT will exchange the frame at no cost anytime needed in the opinion of the owner, and I don't yet know what a worn P11 frame looks like.
My P11 didn't need anything out-of-the-box, but I'm a consummate tinkerer, so it got it anyway! I've modified it with a 6.5# trigger, and brought the fit and finish of some of the parts up to what pleases me. Is that something everybody could or should do? No, but that's something that endears the pistol to me!
I think buyers should be aware of the construction materials of the machines they buy, especially pistols. For the size and weight of KTs there are trade-offs. Since you WON'T find equivalents in Sigs, Barettas, etc., comparing them is an apples and oranges deal.
I agree that if KT put another $50-$100 into "finishing" the P11 as in the KTOG Fluff & Buff, buyers would be more satisfied. However, the fact remains that it's an aluminum frame mounted in a plastic grip hosting a steel slide. That was necessary to achieve the design weight goal, but it's not realistic to expect Sig or Baretta durability from steel on aluminum.
Kahr's solution was to permanently attach steel rails to the aluminum frame. Is that better? IMO, arguably yes from an engineering perspective. However, KT will exchange the frame at no cost anytime needed in the opinion of the owner, and I don't yet know what a worn P11 frame looks like.
My P11 didn't need anything out-of-the-box, but I'm a consummate tinkerer, so it got it anyway! I've modified it with a 6.5# trigger, and brought the fit and finish of some of the parts up to what pleases me. Is that something everybody could or should do? No, but that's something that endears the pistol to me!
I think buyers should be aware of the construction materials of the machines they buy, especially pistols. For the size and weight of KTs there are trade-offs. Since you WON'T find equivalents in Sigs, Barettas, etc., comparing them is an apples and oranges deal.
hoosierdaddy
New member
light,
cheap,
100% reliable
(pick 2)
cheap,
100% reliable
(pick 2)
hoosierdaddy
New member
Let's face it, the P-32 is a back up gun at best. I carry mine just incase my primary weapon(s) fail or are taken from me. I would much rather use my 1911 or my good old reliable S&W snubbie but if I need it I'd like the P-32 as an option. If I reach for it and it's in pieces in my ankle holster I still have at least 1 or 2 options (assuming the 2 or 3 seconds it takes for a gun fight to go down hasn't expired). My Spyderco Cyvillian is a nasty little option.
If everything fails then it's just my time.
By the way every member a local SWAT team carries a p-32 as their "last chance" weapon.
If everything fails then it's just my time.
By the way every member a local SWAT team carries a p-32 as their "last chance" weapon.
Keltec P-32 and other weapons to look into
I'm sorry your pistol failed on you. From all the Kel-Tec products I've seen, they aren't the best products for the money, nor are they the worst. For the price of the P-32, according to the KTOG site, its $230.00. Some people have gotten their P-32s to work fine, and some have the work out of the box, most I've seen people often send back to the manufacturer or sell. To me, $230.00 will buy a better carry weapon. Is .32ACP a must? If not, for $230.00 you can obtain a Makarov in .380 or the original 9x18mm for no more than $150, and still have enough money for defensive ammo. Or you can get the ligther, FEG PA-63 in .380 or 9x18mm, for no more than $125 and again money left for ammuntion. Or, if one can be found, a used S&W Model 10 or derivative for $150-$200 in .38 Special.
Or for about $70.00 more, according to this months Shotgun news a Manurhin-built Walther PP can be had for about $300, in .32, these are licenced copies of the German counterpart, and all parts will interchange. CDNN Investments has a PP for $219.00, if you need .32 ACP.
I'm sorry your pistol failed on you. From all the Kel-Tec products I've seen, they aren't the best products for the money, nor are they the worst. For the price of the P-32, according to the KTOG site, its $230.00. Some people have gotten their P-32s to work fine, and some have the work out of the box, most I've seen people often send back to the manufacturer or sell. To me, $230.00 will buy a better carry weapon. Is .32ACP a must? If not, for $230.00 you can obtain a Makarov in .380 or the original 9x18mm for no more than $150, and still have enough money for defensive ammo. Or you can get the ligther, FEG PA-63 in .380 or 9x18mm, for no more than $125 and again money left for ammuntion. Or, if one can be found, a used S&W Model 10 or derivative for $150-$200 in .38 Special.
Or for about $70.00 more, according to this months Shotgun news a Manurhin-built Walther PP can be had for about $300, in .32, these are licenced copies of the German counterpart, and all parts will interchange. CDNN Investments has a PP for $219.00, if you need .32 ACP.
rugerfreak...
Let's try a couple of others:
Have you ever fired a Kel-Tec? If not, how is it that you are able to determine that the product is junk just by holding it in your hand?
I own two of the four handguns you suggest. That doesn't preclude my owning any number of Kel-Tecs and shooting them enough [thousands of rounds] to determine that they are very innovative and dependable designs. For the money...in the $200-300 range...they are great bargains. If they weren't, I suspect there wouldn't be so many companies [Taurus being a prime example] trying to knock-off Kelgren's designs to get their own share of the market.
It's a very simple question. If you don't want to answer it, that's OK.
Let's try a couple of others:
Have you ever fired a Kel-Tec? If not, how is it that you are able to determine that the product is junk just by holding it in your hand?
I own two of the four handguns you suggest. That doesn't preclude my owning any number of Kel-Tecs and shooting them enough [thousands of rounds] to determine that they are very innovative and dependable designs. For the money...in the $200-300 range...they are great bargains. If they weren't, I suspect there wouldn't be so many companies [Taurus being a prime example] trying to knock-off Kelgren's designs to get their own share of the market.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sorry, I tried to email blackhawk off list and he does not allow his email via TFL for that.
Blackhawk, you are a funny man! I don't agree with what you have had to say on a lot of this issue, but I certainly feel you have put a considerable amount of thought into the topic. Proof of thought goes a long way in my book, even if I don't agree with the end result.
I wanted you to know that I thought you slammed me good with the Duh! comment on the free market, but not the explanation. However, I laughed hard enough at the well placed Duh! that Diet DP came out my nose.
Best of luck revvolver geek!
Blackhawk, you are a funny man! I don't agree with what you have had to say on a lot of this issue, but I certainly feel you have put a considerable amount of thought into the topic. Proof of thought goes a long way in my book, even if I don't agree with the end result.
I wanted you to know that I thought you slammed me good with the Duh! comment on the free market, but not the explanation. However, I laughed hard enough at the well placed Duh! that Diet DP came out my nose.
Best of luck revvolver geek!
All the guns mentioned weight almost twice as much if not more than twice as much as the Kel Tec P32 as well as being quite a bit larger. Try putting an all steel Makarov in your pocket or a SW Mod 10. As for the revolvers you can bet you aren't going to find an airweight for that price, so you will end up will a relatively heavy weapon.
The beauty of the Kel Tec P32 is that it can be hidden with a minimum of alterations to your clothing or style of dressing. The extremely light weight makes it easy to carry as a backup gun without discomfort. You can just slip it in a pocket easily for that quick trip to walk the dog in a pair of shorts. Try doing that will a heavy Makarov without being noticeable.
I really like the convenience of my Kel Tec. I'm sure many folks carry this little pistol who would not otherwise carry a weapon because of the features of the weapon.
Good Shooting
RED
Double Naught Spy,
I did put the smiley thingy after the Duh! (Maybe someday I'll learn how to use the 12 TFL "Smilies"....) Sorry about the carbonated nose job, but what else can I say?
You can always send private mail to TFLers by clicking the PM button at the bottom of the message... I think....
Actually, you do agree with me even though you might not realize it yet. ;-)
I did put the smiley thingy after the Duh! (Maybe someday I'll learn how to use the 12 TFL "Smilies"....) Sorry about the carbonated nose job, but what else can I say?
You can always send private mail to TFLers by clicking the PM button at the bottom of the message... I think....
Actually, you do agree with me even though you might not realize it yet. ;-)