My choice to carry a revolver CONFIRMED in a big way...

Since we are talking.more about defensive use, not just plinking, are the revolver shooters shooting double action only? Don't think I saw anyone mention this. I shoot semis and revolvers in competition and also for carry, but am more accurate with the semi at longer ranges or smaller targets.

If I go to a regular public range I rarely see people shooting revolvers in double action. Sometimes I'll see someone with a j frame shooting da. Mark
 
I carry both autos and revolvers, and I use both. I strongly favor the revolver as an outdoorsmen’s gun but that doesn’t mean I don’t carry autos afield at times.
I believe the auto lends itself better to a military role in the fact that masses of enemies are FAR more common in war than they are in “civilian life”, but the revolver can do the job well for a soldier as an auto can to the job well for an outdoorsman.
I speak from personal experience here. (Yes I have used the auto in military service, and I did very well with it. That was when I was a younger man and could shoot well enough to impress, but at that time I can remember thinking how I wished I could have had my old 44 mag with me because as good as I was with my 1911, I was better with the M-29. Did it ever matter? No!
So that was just a passing whim.

All said, autos carry in a more compact way than revolvers do. Place a Combat Commander 1911 or Glock 19 on top of a J Frame S&W 2” 38 and you will see what I mean. Revolvers can be made in more powerful calibers than most autos. Some autos will shoot as well as revolvers and a few are better out of the box, but in the 47 years I have been shooting and buying handguns I have seen an average mean accuracy that favors the revolver. Autos carry more rounds. They are MUCH faster to re-load. Autos have the advantage of using magazines are can be bought in numbers to carry. So say that the magazine can be damaged and lost. Very true, but revolvers can be damaged and lost too. If I were to be issues an auto with only one magazine and no chance of getting a replacement, and then I were offered my chose of it or my favorite revolver I would take the revolver. But such a case is not realistic. If I can get 3-4 mags I do and if I ever lose one (I did, overseas, one time) it’s not a big deal.
So the revolver VS auto argument is a bit like the sedan VS pick-up argument. Both can haul the kids around, but one hauls bricks better and one hauls passengers better. Is one better than the other……..yes and no ------ at the same time.
Lastly I think it’s interesting to talk to some friends of mine who are now retired from Reno PD. In the early days of their career they and every other cop carried revolvers. Shootings were all done with 357 Magnums and the average shots per engagement were 7 from band-guy and 1.6 per cop. Both of my friends tell me the same numbers. Now all are carrying autos and the number of shots fired by cops is averaging 7.8 and the number of shots fired by bad-guys is all the way up to 20+.
My take of the stats is this………
It has little to do with the guns.
You see, in the western USA in the 60s and early 70s shooting was common among most boys. The “gun culture” was FAR more prevalent in the west than in the east. It still is, but not so much as it was 1-2 generations ago.
Training was given to cops to keep cool in both the east and the west, and to shoot well. Cops that kept their head did better.

In the east back then cops shot a LOT of rounds at bad guys but didn’t have years and years of shooting experience behind them, so the muscle memory was not as ingrained as it was with most western cops. Same today. (Note I say most, not all. There are some VERY good gun-fighters in the east. This is an average, not something written in stone)

So all in all the gun is always 2% of the equation and the man is 98%
Hardware is less important than training.
 
I shoot semis and revolvers in competition and also for carry, but am more accurate with the semi at longer ranges or smaller targets.
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Funny--I'm just the opposite--I usually shoot revolvers better at anything longer than close engagement distances--though admittedly a big part of that is that semis generally aren't chambered for "the big boy rounds" while revolvers can be found that launch ICBM sized cartridges--and the other part is that I believe semi's are often just plain harder to learn to shoot accurately.
 
I prefer revolvers in general, but not to exclusion. I own semi-autos as well. All of mine have been reliable with factory service ammo.

I had a revolver bind up from heat expansion of the cylinder when shooting fairly hot rounds through it in rather rapid succession, which resolved itself when the cylinder cooled down again. It was a S&W Model 66 no dash which I believe had issues with that, resolved with the 66-1.

I had a Colt revolver once that had a loose barrel that would rotate under firing and the ejector rod shroud would catch the rod making it impossible to open the cylinder. I traded that one to a dealer (making him aware of the issue).

I inherited a Charter Arms revolver which apparently uses an adjustable screw on the cylinder release to push the cylinder pin in. That screw had backed out to where it would not release the cylinder. Took it apart and lock-tited the screw into place which resolved that problem as well. I no longer have that one.

I have had two semi-autos of the same make and model that would jam only with one particular brand of factory ammo (or maybe a bad batch of that ammo) but fed everything else with no problems.

I have another semi-auto that a couple of times failed to return to the fully forward position, requiring a light bump on the slide, when using some rather low-powered practice ammo. This was during a break-in period, probably within the first couple hundred rounds. No problems with other brands of practice ammo nor any other ammo since then.

I have two Gen 4 Glocks that have never had any problems at all.

I had a Gen 1 Glock many years ago that would stovepipe occasionally. Easy enough to brush off and keep shooting, and assuming you are using sights, no way to miss the stovepipe. This was with factory reload practice ammo if I recall, it has been 25 years or so.

I've had a number of other autos and revolvers over the years, S&W J, K, L, N frames, Model 59, Model 5946, Colt Combat Commander .45ACP, that had no problems.

About all you can do is properly clean and maintain your firearms, and shoot them enough on the range with ammo you will actually be using to make sure they function properly, and hope they will not mysteriously jam or lock up the one time you need them for real.

I do prefer revolvers for carry, not because I consider them any more or less reliable than the particular automatics that I own, just that I am more comfortable with them in general and I like wheelguns. It's not a religion with me, though. I was carrying a Glock 26 just this weekend. But mostly it's a J or K-frame S&W.
 
One thing few people realize is that an extended multi-day course of fire is not representative of what your chosen pistol carried for defensive uses will most likely do should you ever need to use it.

Another is that ALL IT HAS TO DO, AT THE MAX, IS FIRE WHATEVER NUMBER OF ROUNDS YOU HAVE ON YOUR BODY, AND TYPICALLY NOWHERE CLOSE TO THAT NUMBER.

Almost any well-maintained quality-made pistol in good condition will do that.

If you talk to instructors who run through hundreds of students a year, and/or attend & observe yourself, you may find that stoppages tend to occur well beyond the normal number of rounds carried on body.

While it may be nice to have a pistol that can fire 500 rounds without cleaning or oiling during a class (or even 200), it's not necessary as a defensive tool.

Honestly, how many times have you seen a clean pistol malfunction right out of the holster, or in the first 20 rounds of a class you've been to?

Just something to think about.

I had a discussion on the subject with an instructor who was promoting the idea that a defensive pistol wasn't viable unless it could go through most of a class without stoppages.
He didn't like my assertion that (while I thought mine could easily), all my carry pistol was expected to do in real life was be able to fire the contents of 3 mags without malfunction at the absolute max, since that'd be what I carry daily.

That's what matters.
An extended class is an artificial environment that very few handguns will experience in the real world, and if a pistol malfunctions at some point well into it, it's only an inconvenience.

What a given defensive pistol does with 30 rounds from a clean gun is what you should be more concerned with.
Denis
 
Stagpanther. If you are more accurate with the revolver at 25 yards, is that shooting in sa or da mode. I really never shoot my da revolvers in single action. Mark.
 
This was a fun read. :)

Based on the description, it sounds like the class included either a lot of new shooters or a lot of people new to "carry size" guns. It involved fast and stressful action in a hot and dusty environment. It took everyone's plain-clothes concealed EDC (or EDC hopeful) and chucked their set-ups into a frying pan usually reserved for competition or full-blown multi-target firefights.

That said, these results don't surprise me one bit!

Unless I missed something, it sounds like the OP walks around all day with a concealed Redhawk. Now that was a surprise and I'll join everyone else in offering kudos!
 
Cosmodragoon,

Every day from about 4:30am to just after 9pm, I have this Redhawk on me, and I have yet to have one person say, "Is that a gun?!?". It's all about the angle of the holster. I chose this particular gun because of its weight, (which I like), and I chose the caliber because sometimes, the cougars and mountain lions come down to the pastures where I live. I like knowing that my daily carry can handle just about anything. :)
 
DPris said:
One thing few people realize is that an extended multi-day course of fire is not representative of what your chosen pistol carried for defensive uses will most likely do should you ever need to use it.

Another is that ALL IT HAS TO DO, AT THE MAX, IS FIRE WHATEVER NUMBER OF ROUNDS YOU HAVE ON YOUR BODY, AND TYPICALLY NOWHERE CLOSE TO THAT NUMBER.

Almost any well-maintained quality-made pistol in good condition will do that.

If you talk to instructors who run through hundreds of students a year, and/or attend & observe yourself, you may find that stoppages tend to occur well beyond the normal number of rounds carried on body.

While it may be nice to have a pistol that can fire 500 rounds without cleaning or oiling during a class (or even 200), it's not necessary as a defensive tool.

Honestly, how many times have you seen a clean pistol malfunction right out of the holster, or in the first 20 rounds of a class you've been to?

Just something to think about.

I had a discussion on the subject with an instructor who was promoting the idea that a defensive pistol wasn't viable unless it could go through most of a class without stoppages.
He didn't like my assertion that (while I thought mine could easily), all my carry pistol was expected to do in real life was be able to fire the contents of 3 mags without malfunction at the absolute max, since that'd be what I carry daily.

That's what matters.
An extended class is an artificial environment that very few handguns will experience in the real world, and if a pistol malfunctions at some point well into it, it's only an inconvenience.

What a given defensive pistol does with 30 rounds from a clean gun is what you should be more concerned with.
Denis
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^^^^This.

A few years ago, there was a big kerfluffle about compact 1911's not being able to complete 500+round training courses....and that was reason enough not to use one for self defense. My first thought was, "Who's carrying 71 magazines as part of his/her EDC?" My second, and still current thought, is "As long as my gun is reliable with all the ammo I'm carrying, I'm happy."

.....and I don't even carry a compact 1911...... [emoji41]
 
First off to the OP, great story.
I've seen revolvers fail numerous times over the last 40 years. HOWEVER, it's always been one of two things: 1) faulty ammo (jumped the crimp, high primer, double charged case (never seen a double charge first hand...at least not yet:D)) 2) Somebody messed with the hammer spring and got it too light (replaced with a lighter one or loosened the strain screw too much). I don't think I've ever seen a revolver fail with good factory ammo and the proper hammer spring.

Having said that, these days I usually carry a automatic. Autos have really improved over the last half century or so. I trust mine enough. YMMV.
 
Stagpanther. If you are more accurate with the revolver at 25 yards, is that shooting in sa or da mode. I really never shoot my da revolvers in single action. Mark.
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Single action for me--no way I could rapid fire the magnum wheel guns I have : )
 
I'm not shooting magnum loads. Mostly 38 special in action shooting ( not bullseye) competition. I do shoot my 44 special snubby with heavier loads. Either way, shooting SA or DA, you still need to get your sights back on target before pulling the trigger. Virtually no one shoots SA in action revolver matches. We do occasionally shoot out to 50 yards. Mark
 
I like revolvers and semi-autos equally and for every purpose that a handgun might be used for. I do think that revolvers can be more "forgiving" in terms of their intrinsic simplicity of operation when it comes to performing under fire when the adrenaline is pumping full-bore (though good training and much practice can serve to minimize stress-related "malfunctions" with an auto pistol).
There is this, however: Though now retired, for 26 years my le agency required bi-annual firearm qualifications; initially with a Smith & Wesson Model 13 revolver (.38 Special/.357 Magnum) before transitioning to Smith Third Generation pistols, chambered in 9mm. In all that time and using agency reloads, I experienced only one malfunction and that was with the revolver. Sometime during the middle of a course of fire, it became increasingly more difficult to pull the trigger and eventually impossible to. As many of you have probably guessed by now, the cylinder became tied up after a couple of flakes of powder got behind the extractor star. Though I don't necessarily consider this event a "malfunction", it did keep me from firing the gun and it took considerably longer to "clear" the revolver than it would most semi-auto malfunctions.
I don't relate this incident as proof of anything; only to remind that Murphy is always at the table and he will eventually make his presence known; sometimes at the very worst of times. The only remedy is to train and practice on a regular basis.
 
...the cylinder became tied up after a couple of flakes of powder got behind the extractor star.
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Given that powder flakes would only be a concern with firing all five (or six) and effecting a reload, one has to ask, how often in defensive shootings while using a revolver, has the shooter been required to re-load. Most of the shootings I have read about or heard of, the assailant ether takes off running after being shot at, hobbles away, or falls down from his injuries. In those scenarios, reloading the revolver is not usually necessary making the fact that powder can get under the extractor star, moot.

I have confidence in my five-shot revolver that it will perform its function in a civilian defensive situation without any stoppage, but would want a high-cap auto if in a military situation where multiple targets are more likely to be the norm.
 
I like both, and as many of the others have said, both have their pros and cons. Me, if I think about all of the potential issues/scenarios that "could" happen, I can make myself go back and forth second guessing either choice:o I guess that's why I like both.
 
"...the cylinder became tied up after a couple of flakes of powder got behind the extractor star."

Proper ejection technique will cut down on the chances of that happening dramatically.

Muzzle vertical, and the ejector rod slapped down smartly.


"Given that powder flakes would only be a concern with firing all five (or six) and effecting a reload, one has to ask, how often in defensive shootings while using a revolver, has the shooter been required to re-load."

I'm sure it's probably happened. But I'd bet not often.
 
QUOTE: "...the cylinder became tied up after a couple of flakes of powder got behind the extractor star."

Proper ejection technique will cut down on the chances of that happening dramatically.

You are correct but, as I remember, the star was "wet behind the ears" and the flakes stuck to the lubricant. A further caveat might be to keep this area as dry as practical.
 
Mike Irwin said:
"...the cylinder became tied up after a couple of flakes of powder got behind the extractor star."

Proper ejection technique will cut down on the chances of that happening dramatically.

Muzzle vertical, and the ejector rod slapped down smartly.


"Given that powder flakes would only be a concern with firing all five (or six) and effecting a reload, one has to ask, how often in defensive shootings while using a revolver, has the shooter been required to re-load."

I'm sure it's probably happened. But I'd bet not often.
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I've shot my K-38 in USPSA competition a few times. Using your reloading technique, I've never had a thing get under the ejector star. It works.
 
Originally posted by dgludwig
as I remember, the star was "wet behind the ears" and the flakes stuck to the lubricant. A further caveat might be to keep this area as dry as practical.
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Ding, ding, ding, I think we may have a winning answer. One of the biggest problems that people who are primarily familiar with semi-autos have when they move to a revolver is that they over-lubricate it. A revolver in proper working order needs very little lubrication and, IMHO, it's better to run a revolver with no lubrication whatsoever than to over lubricate it.

In years past when revolvers were more, or at least as popular as semi-autos this was pretty much common knowledge. Unfortunately, the old timers seemed to have failed to pass this on to many younger shooters who started out on semi-autos. Unfortunately, many of the younger crowd decides to try a revolver and, when they can't find the slide rails or firing pin block plungers they're used to lubing, they go looking for something to apply the fancy mil-spec synthetic lube that the gun shop ninja told them was so great.

It's understandable really, they've learned all along that guns need to be lubricated and, since a revolver is a gun, it must need to have lubrication applied somewhere. Unfortunately, they often resort to trying to lube the extractor rod (usually applying oil under the extractor where it shouldn't be) or dripping oil into any opening into the action that they can find. As more seasoned revolver shooters know, that's a bad idea because all it will do is attract dirt.

So, for those who aren't as familiar with revolvers, here is what should be lubricated and how: any friction or contact points in the action should have no more than one small drop of gun oil applied to them. In addition, these parts need to be lubricated rarely (once a year is probably more than enough). I generally only lube the actions of my revolvers if I'm already doing something else like changing springs or cleaning out old lube and grit on a used gun I've just purchased.

In addition, don't try to lube the action by dripping or spraying oil in without disassembling the gun such through the opening left by a cocked hammer as it is a sure way to get way too much lube exactly where it shouldn't be. On a S&W, Colt, Taurus, Rossi, or other revolver with a sideplate, simply popping the sideplate off usually gives ample access to any and all parts that need lubrication. A Ruger or Charter Arms with their no-sideplate design are a bit less convenient to lube as they actually have to be disassembled. If you don't feel comfortable popping a sideplate or pulling the innards from the frame, don't try to lubricate the action. As I said before, a revolver is better off not being lubed at all than it is being over lubricated and/or lubed in the wrong places.

Finally, resist the temptation to lube the cylinder, extractor, crane/yoke, and/or ejector rod. These parts don't need to be lubed and all lubrication will do to them is leave unwanted residue and/or attract dirt and grime. At best, dried oil or grease will make the cylinder turn sluggishly and negatively affect the feel of the action. At worst, it will attract dirt, unburnt powder, and other debris and cause the dreaded "junk under the extractor jam."
 
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