My 91/30 mossin nagant project
- Thread starter Duzell
- Start date
current mosin: black lightning
named after the Russian movie if anyone is wondering
anyway took it out to a ranch and fired 20 rounds to zero out the red dot, it did ok at 70 yards, also sadly that day my raybans fell and shattered, afterwords i also lost my trigger in (just ordered two from buymilsurplus.com) hopefully ill get them soon and use two shoot.
ive decided the red dot is good only out to 100 yards but it dosnt have the magnification for what i want to do, which is 300 -400+ yards, like i do with the m1a, sadly i have to say the mosin and m1a are my two favorites.
anyway performance
using the brass stacker mount i shot out to 70 yards using the leapers red dot scope available on amazon for 40 ish bucks, got for 25 at a gun show
ive decided ill get an ncstar scope non iluminating as its cheap and will work at 2x 7x
below are pics of the shoot
mosin with bipod extended max
mosin at noraml shortest height (this is also what i do to clean my gun)
mosin on bipod
target at 70 yards
named after the Russian movie if anyone is wondering
anyway took it out to a ranch and fired 20 rounds to zero out the red dot, it did ok at 70 yards, also sadly that day my raybans fell and shattered, afterwords i also lost my trigger in (just ordered two from buymilsurplus.com) hopefully ill get them soon and use two shoot.
ive decided the red dot is good only out to 100 yards but it dosnt have the magnification for what i want to do, which is 300 -400+ yards, like i do with the m1a, sadly i have to say the mosin and m1a are my two favorites.
anyway performance
using the brass stacker mount i shot out to 70 yards using the leapers red dot scope available on amazon for 40 ish bucks, got for 25 at a gun show
ive decided ill get an ncstar scope non iluminating as its cheap and will work at 2x 7x
below are pics of the shoot
mosin with bipod extended max
mosin at noraml shortest height (this is also what i do to clean my gun)
mosin on bipod
target at 70 yards
quick question on ncstar
quick question. does the ncstar scopes come with rings or do i have to order those too?
and i keep flipping between illuminated and non as i do shoot at night and the illumination would make the mosin handy at night shooting
so i will get the illuminanted mostlikly as same as non but can illuminate
quick question. does the ncstar scopes come with rings or do i have to order those too?
and i keep flipping between illuminated and non as i do shoot at night and the illumination would make the mosin handy at night shooting
so i will get the illuminanted mostlikly as same as non but can illuminate
ok well i have put the mosin away till i get the replacement trigger pin which is being shipped from floridia (2 of these) via buymilsurplus.com
i will get the ncstar scout scope that is illuminated so i can night hunt/shoot
it is 2x to 7x magnification
comes with scope lens caps and has rings so no worries
2 day shipping via amazon woot! and amazon 30 day backing. ill order when i get my pins so i can try shooting it that weekend.
i will get the ncstar scout scope that is illuminated so i can night hunt/shoot
it is 2x to 7x magnification
comes with scope lens caps and has rings so no worries
2 day shipping via amazon woot! and amazon 30 day backing. ill order when i get my pins so i can try shooting it that weekend.
Ammo
ammunition
ive heard this around and i have experienced it myself and thought i should point this out so people know.
the whinchester 7.62x54r rounds that is softpoint and has 180 grain has some issues
ive noticed when firing this the rear of every 6th bullet blows off and the charge metal will get stuck in the BOLT, if you notice a hole in the rear of your casing, take bolt apart and clean, then gap the pin using the tool that comes with the mosin.
the reason as some have pointed out is due to the inconsistent quality of the Winchester version. i find this bullet to not be reliable or consistent personally. but its up to you, i find them overly expensive and just not worth the price(fun to shoot milk jugs filled with colored water)
now ive never had issues withe surplus (windex or hopps the barrel after), they are less accurate
now the brand i do approve of is the brown bear(my m1a loves this brand too) version of the 7.62x54r, this brand offer the same style as Winchester also a silver bear which is non re-loadable (i like these cause the range guys jack my brass)
now i can pick up the brown bear for 10 bucks with 20 rounds, soft point and everything (hell they have various grain size too)(midway USA)
Winchester is 27.99$ at big five for 20 rounds
twice the price half the quality.
now my mosin is choosy in rounds that are consistent (don't know your preference) i have used brown bear, surplus , whinchester ect
various sites for ammo
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/ammo-rifle-762x54r-ammo.aspx?c=96&s=954
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=7.62x54mm
ammunition
ive heard this around and i have experienced it myself and thought i should point this out so people know.
the whinchester 7.62x54r rounds that is softpoint and has 180 grain has some issues
ive noticed when firing this the rear of every 6th bullet blows off and the charge metal will get stuck in the BOLT, if you notice a hole in the rear of your casing, take bolt apart and clean, then gap the pin using the tool that comes with the mosin.
the reason as some have pointed out is due to the inconsistent quality of the Winchester version. i find this bullet to not be reliable or consistent personally. but its up to you, i find them overly expensive and just not worth the price(fun to shoot milk jugs filled with colored water)
now ive never had issues withe surplus (windex or hopps the barrel after), they are less accurate
now the brand i do approve of is the brown bear(my m1a loves this brand too) version of the 7.62x54r, this brand offer the same style as Winchester also a silver bear which is non re-loadable (i like these cause the range guys jack my brass)
now i can pick up the brown bear for 10 bucks with 20 rounds, soft point and everything (hell they have various grain size too)(midway USA)
Winchester is 27.99$ at big five for 20 rounds
twice the price half the quality.
now my mosin is choosy in rounds that are consistent (don't know your preference) i have used brown bear, surplus , whinchester ect
various sites for ammo
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/ammo-rifle-762x54r-ammo.aspx?c=96&s=954
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=7.62x54mm
project update
well now, i broke down and bought the ncstar 2x-7x with illuminated cross hairs.
it looks nice and came with lens caps (russian style ill get usa flip covers) a battery spare, allen wrench and 2 low profile rings (yay i wanted these)
mounted it to the brass stacker, i need to hook to rifle now... anyway i found out my old solid case wont fit the mosin so i ordered the bulldog 52+ inches and it supposedly does well with a scope.
scope has 7 illumination stages, and 2x-7x magnification, very quick when quick aiming, its not zeroed yet but it has a fixed parralax so dont complain, a scope like this years ago would be military only im glad i have it, works great at night front lens dosnt emit light and makes you hard to find, low level is best. got on deal on amazon for 48$ 2 day shipping.
now im looking for a muzzel break and i stumbled upon this one. looks good and could be quite entertaining.
http://mosinplus.com/
for those who dont know what a muzzel break is, its like a blow off valve, redirecting gas up and to sides of gun to counter rise and recoil. also it will make it loud! and have a concussive effect. this is great on the m1a as when i shoot it i see a sphere effect while in grass, it literally makes a blast sphere from gun that eminates out and you FEEL it. its fun and functional for gun, if someone has tried the above break please detail your experiance
'another method is to make a screw rivits on barrel so you can screw on the ak or sks breaks
well now, i broke down and bought the ncstar 2x-7x with illuminated cross hairs.
it looks nice and came with lens caps (russian style ill get usa flip covers) a battery spare, allen wrench and 2 low profile rings (yay i wanted these)
mounted it to the brass stacker, i need to hook to rifle now... anyway i found out my old solid case wont fit the mosin so i ordered the bulldog 52+ inches and it supposedly does well with a scope.
scope has 7 illumination stages, and 2x-7x magnification, very quick when quick aiming, its not zeroed yet but it has a fixed parralax so dont complain, a scope like this years ago would be military only im glad i have it, works great at night front lens dosnt emit light and makes you hard to find, low level is best. got on deal on amazon for 48$ 2 day shipping.
now im looking for a muzzel break and i stumbled upon this one. looks good and could be quite entertaining.
http://mosinplus.com/
for those who dont know what a muzzel break is, its like a blow off valve, redirecting gas up and to sides of gun to counter rise and recoil. also it will make it loud! and have a concussive effect. this is great on the m1a as when i shoot it i see a sphere effect while in grass, it literally makes a blast sphere from gun that eminates out and you FEEL it. its fun and functional for gun, if someone has tried the above break please detail your experiance
'another method is to make a screw rivits on barrel so you can screw on the ak or sks breaks
mosin semi auto?
new idea to design a mosin to be semi auto by replacing bolt with a new one i will engineer and design make it so gas fires a piston built into bolt and chambers new round after first shot, this principle would work but we would be limited by the number of rounds. in practicality the system would work like so. load like normal on mosin and prepare to fire, after firing gas pushes on bolt, internal piston is pushed back and spring behind piston pushes piston into place chambering a new round and being ready to fire. a basic system for a basic rifle, im imagining this to be semi auto and having it so all mechanism is in new bolt. should i make it bent ?
new idea to design a mosin to be semi auto by replacing bolt with a new one i will engineer and design make it so gas fires a piston built into bolt and chambers new round after first shot, this principle would work but we would be limited by the number of rounds. in practicality the system would work like so. load like normal on mosin and prepare to fire, after firing gas pushes on bolt, internal piston is pushed back and spring behind piston pushes piston into place chambering a new round and being ready to fire. a basic system for a basic rifle, im imagining this to be semi auto and having it so all mechanism is in new bolt. should i make it bent ?
tahunua001
New member
Duzell,
that's a nice mosin you have there, I'm glad you decided against the cheaper ATI alternatives for scope base.
however your plans for a piston driven mosin nagant semi is going to be a near impossible task with a lot of things to overcome first.
1. the magazine is a large obstacle. 5 round capacity magazines are pretty limiting when it comes to a semi auto, with the frequency of reloads there is little advantage over a bolt action. there are some people working on a 10 round magazine but it is still in the prototype stage. promag has a 10 round detachable magazine but it must be incorporated into the new Archangel polymer mosin stock to work which would add it's own challenges.
2. you would have to completely design your own bolt, a lot of precises machinery will be necessary for this to happen.
3. semi autos are not so forgiving of crude finishes and heavy tooling marks. you would have to go in and buff out a lot of the ridges, and bumps to help streamline the action.
4. where would the piston go? you can't go over the op as that's where your sights are located, if you go to either side you'll mess with the balance of the rifle and it will always want to rotate to one side and cause a fall in accuracy. going through the bottom would be your only option in this case which would bring you back to having to find a way to incorporate it into the stock without impeding the magazine.
what you are attempting to do has been done before but not in the way you plan to do it. during world war one a conversion known as the Pedersen Device was used to convert springfield 1903s into semi automatic rifles. this design was blow back, completely operated by recoil, no piston necessary. however as 3006 is way too powerful to put in a blowback design, they invented a small 30 caliber pistol cartridge to work with the device. as these smaller rounds could not feed in the magazines, a new 40 round top feed magazine was created. after all this was done, then they had to actually design a semi automatic bolt to work with all of these modifications. all of this was a colossal undertaking for remington arms even in a factory setting and they were working with a base design that that was much more refined than the 91/30.
the challenges of doing all this are just too astronomical for anyone that doesn't already own a firearms factory. for the thousands of dollars and countless hours that would be required drafting schematics and actually attempting to fabricate a prototype, it would just be way cheaper and easier to go out and buy a russian SVT40 in 7.62x54R that is piston driven and has a 10 round detachable mag and call it a day.
that's a nice mosin you have there, I'm glad you decided against the cheaper ATI alternatives for scope base.
however your plans for a piston driven mosin nagant semi is going to be a near impossible task with a lot of things to overcome first.
1. the magazine is a large obstacle. 5 round capacity magazines are pretty limiting when it comes to a semi auto, with the frequency of reloads there is little advantage over a bolt action. there are some people working on a 10 round magazine but it is still in the prototype stage. promag has a 10 round detachable magazine but it must be incorporated into the new Archangel polymer mosin stock to work which would add it's own challenges.
2. you would have to completely design your own bolt, a lot of precises machinery will be necessary for this to happen.
3. semi autos are not so forgiving of crude finishes and heavy tooling marks. you would have to go in and buff out a lot of the ridges, and bumps to help streamline the action.
4. where would the piston go? you can't go over the op as that's where your sights are located, if you go to either side you'll mess with the balance of the rifle and it will always want to rotate to one side and cause a fall in accuracy. going through the bottom would be your only option in this case which would bring you back to having to find a way to incorporate it into the stock without impeding the magazine.
what you are attempting to do has been done before but not in the way you plan to do it. during world war one a conversion known as the Pedersen Device was used to convert springfield 1903s into semi automatic rifles. this design was blow back, completely operated by recoil, no piston necessary. however as 3006 is way too powerful to put in a blowback design, they invented a small 30 caliber pistol cartridge to work with the device. as these smaller rounds could not feed in the magazines, a new 40 round top feed magazine was created. after all this was done, then they had to actually design a semi automatic bolt to work with all of these modifications. all of this was a colossal undertaking for remington arms even in a factory setting and they were working with a base design that that was much more refined than the 91/30.
the challenges of doing all this are just too astronomical for anyone that doesn't already own a firearms factory. for the thousands of dollars and countless hours that would be required drafting schematics and actually attempting to fabricate a prototype, it would just be way cheaper and easier to go out and buy a russian SVT40 in 7.62x54R that is piston driven and has a 10 round detachable mag and call it a day.
thats just a first draft idea, i wasn't going to do this in a day, this is a long term project. But as a engineer its not like its something i haven't done before , and a mosin isn't very complex but the proper calculations and design must be implemented, so far the plan is just to draw up a few bolt designs schematics for fun and not make a bolt, if thats what your worrying about, i appreciate the warning but dont worry about it.
now as far as historical goes there were a few of experimental semi auto designs for the mosin but none made it into production. i was also refrenceing an article on auto rifles that was interesiting [article]
though i showed the current design i had going to a gun smith, he actually stated that it would make it full auto not semi, i need another spring on the front of the bolt internally to prevent a firing of the newly chambered bullet, or something else. basically the error in my first design was that after firing the recoil and gas push an internal system back onto a spring but then spring theory kicks in and pushes piston forward (piston actually houses firing pin was part of it) and pushes forward, what the gunsmith said is that the forward motion has no limiting elements and would cause the pin to move forward and fire the round as it came in which could end badly or fire it out barrel and this would happen repeatedly so back to drawing board.
but on the up side the mosin is a simple rifle and internally not much complexity other than shape
mosin nagant normal design
here is someones project i find scary a mosin pistol?
now as far as historical goes there were a few of experimental semi auto designs for the mosin but none made it into production. i was also refrenceing an article on auto rifles that was interesiting [article]
though i showed the current design i had going to a gun smith, he actually stated that it would make it full auto not semi, i need another spring on the front of the bolt internally to prevent a firing of the newly chambered bullet, or something else. basically the error in my first design was that after firing the recoil and gas push an internal system back onto a spring but then spring theory kicks in and pushes piston forward (piston actually houses firing pin was part of it) and pushes forward, what the gunsmith said is that the forward motion has no limiting elements and would cause the pin to move forward and fire the round as it came in which could end badly or fire it out barrel and this would happen repeatedly so back to drawing board.
but on the up side the mosin is a simple rifle and internally not much complexity other than shape
mosin nagant normal design
here is someones project i find scary a mosin pistol?
News for mosins nagant owners
recently if you are unawair,
archangel has developed a new mosin stock thta is drop in for mosin nagant rifles, looks similar to a m1a sniper stock, but best part is it actually converts the mosin nagant to a magazine rifle, 5-10 round clips that allow for quick install and firing
price for stock with a 5 clip and all the goodies is set to 199.95 USD$
10 round clip is set for 25.95 USD$
this will be released in may apparently, so all you mosin sporters may want to take a look at this
recently if you are unawair,
archangel has developed a new mosin stock thta is drop in for mosin nagant rifles, looks similar to a m1a sniper stock, but best part is it actually converts the mosin nagant to a magazine rifle, 5-10 round clips that allow for quick install and firing
price for stock with a 5 clip and all the goodies is set to 199.95 USD$
10 round clip is set for 25.95 USD$
this will be released in may apparently, so all you mosin sporters may want to take a look at this
tahunua001
New member
Duzell, see post #70, bullet #1
this stock has been around the ringer a few times and there have been quite a few threads dedicated to it. a pic of it surfaced last fall as a tease, along with a decent looking archangel SKS stock and AK furniture set. no more word was had until shot show 2013 in january when a pair of mosins were on display at the archangel booth, one carbine with folding bayonet intact and one full length. the SKS and AKs were strangely absent and hasn't been any word of those since the tease photo was leaked.
has there been any progress on your semi mosin project?
this stock has been around the ringer a few times and there have been quite a few threads dedicated to it. a pic of it surfaced last fall as a tease, along with a decent looking archangel SKS stock and AK furniture set. no more word was had until shot show 2013 in january when a pair of mosins were on display at the archangel booth, one carbine with folding bayonet intact and one full length. the SKS and AKs were strangely absent and hasn't been any word of those since the tease photo was leaked.
has there been any progress on your semi mosin project?
the bolt design is in the works still, i would have a mechanism that replaces the bolt and attached to the rear end, in theory its like any other semi auto save it would be heavy rear end to convert the bolt action to semi auto, the downside to this is added weight to rear end and from modeling one could not sit their head behind the new pin as it just in and out to allow the gun to become semi auto, im attempting to minimize this mechanism but it would appear limited, basically you must load round 1, then after firing the round then releases pressure pushes the new internal bot back and a spring around this small bolt returns it to place. i was using a design of the stg 44 mechanism as it seemed appropriate for loading. the bolt would be fixed onto the gun. but with this new stock i could technically make it work as it loads from below, but its just encumber sum and not fully effective yet, there was a few mosins that were converted to semi auto design but i havent found 1 or a schematic of one so i can see how it was done. my only alternative is to alter the rear system by cutting and allow me more room to work, but as is im at a wall, was fun to try though
dalegribble
New member
i think that is the thickest recoil pad i have ever seen!
Mosin black lightning
well ive been having issues fitting the mosin in my cases, ive had to remove the bipod and attach it while at the range and detach when i leave, i think ill get a under rail mount on the first swivel stud, then mount the bipod to my rail mount
also rethinking the archangel stock, the boyds may not make it detachable and expand number of rounds, but it looks better and i have stuff already for it.
im actually thinking about getting a saiga 7.62x39 and do a project on that rifle to make it a tactical/distance shooter
ALSO side note.
mosin 9130 with forward scope and boyds stock fits in a BULLDOG soft case nice but you need to have no bipod on it
well ive been having issues fitting the mosin in my cases, ive had to remove the bipod and attach it while at the range and detach when i leave, i think ill get a under rail mount on the first swivel stud, then mount the bipod to my rail mount
also rethinking the archangel stock, the boyds may not make it detachable and expand number of rounds, but it looks better and i have stuff already for it.
im actually thinking about getting a saiga 7.62x39 and do a project on that rifle to make it a tactical/distance shooter
ALSO side note.
mosin 9130 with forward scope and boyds stock fits in a BULLDOG soft case nice but you need to have no bipod on it
current repaint as i found after taking BL apart i had messed u the paint underneath. this time i repainted the ENTIRE gun with flameproof paint, which is a high header paint, which is matt black and takes crazy amount of heat so now i have reliability on the paint. one thing i did do was sand the stamp by the warehouse that was sharp and edgy, now its painted and looks awesome
i may paint my trigger a different color just to make it unique
i may paint my trigger a different color just to make it unique
Archangel stock
well
ive ordered my stock and a 10 round mag with that,
im also thinking about doing a bent bolt swap, meaning i get another bolt that i can swap with my standard any time i feel like it.
for reminder
the Black lightning mosin project is about building a mosin that can swap to different modes with ease and low amount of time
currently i have the ability to swap to these modes
standard(origional military)/ sporter(hunting rifle)/ and coming in may tactical (modern battle version)
the mosin visually appears different and accuracy changes with parts used on stocks
so far boyds puts out well, save i hate the built in recoil pad and i have to use a slip on over it.
i will mount a swivel stud onto new stock and use a under pitcanny rail with stud to have bipod and a sling
i may get a flash light for it at some point. rember any of these parts are options you can use that will not hurt, damage, or alter the mosin permanently as i know many have their views and i respect them. i personally seem perma mods as a waste of time when bolt on stuff seems to be just as good or better in some cases. i had a friend tell me if i would just send time to zero the scope and stop showing off on irons the rifle would be a epic longshot. so far this mosin has actually been shot by lots of people and ive actually made a few people into mosin lovers by using it. its just funny as scope is unzeroed so i use irons
well
ive ordered my stock and a 10 round mag with that,
im also thinking about doing a bent bolt swap, meaning i get another bolt that i can swap with my standard any time i feel like it.
for reminder
the Black lightning mosin project is about building a mosin that can swap to different modes with ease and low amount of time
currently i have the ability to swap to these modes
standard(origional military)/ sporter(hunting rifle)/ and coming in may tactical (modern battle version)
the mosin visually appears different and accuracy changes with parts used on stocks
so far boyds puts out well, save i hate the built in recoil pad and i have to use a slip on over it.
i will mount a swivel stud onto new stock and use a under pitcanny rail with stud to have bipod and a sling
i may get a flash light for it at some point. rember any of these parts are options you can use that will not hurt, damage, or alter the mosin permanently as i know many have their views and i respect them. i personally seem perma mods as a waste of time when bolt on stuff seems to be just as good or better in some cases. i had a friend tell me if i would just send time to zero the scope and stop showing off on irons the rifle would be a epic longshot. so far this mosin has actually been shot by lots of people and ive actually made a few people into mosin lovers by using it. its just funny as scope is unzeroed so i use irons
Black Lightning - Mosin 9130
well i had fun shooting at the ranch again.(were i do most of the shots for pics and even a video i just did demonstrating the power of a mosin bullet)
so i go up and bring the mosin and a bunch of people show up and bring there guns and we shoot and compare
first up i was brought a orange ballistic ball, i was sketchy but the guy said it could take anything up to a 50 call, my dad and me were not so sure (my father brought his m1 garand btw) i personally dont like the m1 but i love the m1a so (shrug) its a personal issue.
so i set the ball on top of the typical target range at 50 yards and used irons and put a bullet dead center (if i cant do that 50 yards id have hit myself)
the ball took it good but it had been drilled good by BL, its was a solid hole, the decompressing ballistic polymer was reforming but still a nice hole all the way through, so NO not good for high caliber rounds, i don't recommend them for 308, 7.62(39 or 54(r)) , 30-6
though mainly i let others shoot my gun as they seemed to really enjoy it, my buddy whos mosin hunting finally said screw it and is getting a savage axis, though hes mad cuz he really wanted a m44. i feel for the guy but we looked our best. and now my other friend who shot yesturday wants a mosin to, oy... were will i find one...
well i had fun shooting at the ranch again.(were i do most of the shots for pics and even a video i just did demonstrating the power of a mosin bullet)
so i go up and bring the mosin and a bunch of people show up and bring there guns and we shoot and compare
first up i was brought a orange ballistic ball, i was sketchy but the guy said it could take anything up to a 50 call, my dad and me were not so sure (my father brought his m1 garand btw) i personally dont like the m1 but i love the m1a so (shrug) its a personal issue.
so i set the ball on top of the typical target range at 50 yards and used irons and put a bullet dead center (if i cant do that 50 yards id have hit myself)
the ball took it good but it had been drilled good by BL, its was a solid hole, the decompressing ballistic polymer was reforming but still a nice hole all the way through, so NO not good for high caliber rounds, i don't recommend them for 308, 7.62(39 or 54(r)) , 30-6
though mainly i let others shoot my gun as they seemed to really enjoy it, my buddy whos mosin hunting finally said screw it and is getting a savage axis, though hes mad cuz he really wanted a m44. i feel for the guy but we looked our best. and now my other friend who shot yesturday wants a mosin to, oy... were will i find one...