MUGGING and CC

peetzakilla said:
If you have a gun and somebody says "Give me your money.", give them your money. Guns are a last resort. I would not use my gun to prevent an unarmed robbery or non-violent mugging.
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How exactly do you mug someone nonviolently?!? I'm pretty sure if someone tries to "nonviolently" mug me, I'm just gonna leave. WHAT? Why give them your money, it's "nonviolent". I'm pretty sure giving up money in that situation is charity. I mean, "unarmed mugging", seriously. Am I missing something? If someone asks for my money nonviolently, it's usually a guy collecting for the salvation army, not a mugger. Seriously, if someone tries to mug me nonviolently without a weapon, I'm just gonna assume their crazy and give them a dollar to help them out or whatever. Plus, you don't have to shoot someone who is nonviolently trying to mug you, it's NONVIOLENT. I must be missing something. Seriously, I don't get it.
 
so basically if i do nothing theres a 50% chance im dead... ill take my chances and defend myself
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We're not talking about "you". The right thing to do was clearly nothing. They did nothing and went home.

If "you" find yourself in this EXACT situation, discounting the "I would have seen them..." business, attempting to draw will make you DEAD. If your lucky, you'll survive with just a few bullet holes. Drawing your weapon on a BG that already has his drawn on you is the absolute WORST CASE, LAST THING to do, sometimes you might not have a choice. If you do have a choice, you do not draw. You WILL get shot. It's not like the movies. We're not Bruce Willis or Sylvester Stallone. The BG's have not been told what we're going to do and how they should react. They're going to react by SHOOTING YOU.
 
I'm pretty sure if someone tries to "nonviolently" mug me, I'm just gonna leave.
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That would be wise. It happens. If they don't have a weapon, you can run. If they have a knife you can run. You should, in both cases. If they have a gun what are you going to do? Run? No, they could shoot you. Fight? No, they could shoot you. If they have a gun, GIVE THEM YOUR WALLET! What makes any one think they can win a gun fight where the BG already has his gun out and they don't? Think about that for a minute.
 
I have to agree w/ PeteZilla. I am a very cocky dude, I will fight anyone anywhere, but in this situation I woul just wait and see what happens next.
 
If theres a 50% chance im going to get shot anyway im going to defend myself. Its that simple. I would rather die defending myself than get shot in the head by someone because they think im too passive to do anything to defend myself. People who just give up are the reason mugging is so popular. If everyone defended themselves in the manner i described then there would be a huge decrease in mugging. simply giving away your belongings because theres a chance you will get away unharmed is not the right answer and only promotes more crime. And by the way, i dont need you telling me in not an action hero but im willing to pit my skills against any thugs in order to save my own life if i feel its necessary.
 
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George PT-111 said:
I have to agree w/ PeteZilla. I am a very cocky dude, I will fight anyone anywhere, but in this situation I woul just wait and see what happens next.
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Good luck not getting shot in the head
 
peetzakilla said:
That would be wise. It happens. If they don't have a weapon, you can run. If they have a knife you can run. You should, in both cases. If they have a gun what are you going to do? Run? No, they could shoot you. Fight? No, they could shoot you. If they have a gun, GIVE THEM YOUR WALLET! What makes any one think they can win a gun fight where the BG already has his gun out and they don't? Think about that for a minute.
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Sorry, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about your "nonviolent muggings" and "unarmed robbery".
1. Threaten with gun = violent and armed
2. Threaten with knife = violent and armed
Dictionary.com said:
vi⋅o⋅lence [vahy-uh-luhns]
-noun
1. swift and intense force: the violence of a storm.
2. rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment: to die by violence.
3. an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights or laws: to take over a government by violence.
4. a violent act or proceeding.
5. rough or immoderate vehemence, as of feeling or language: the violence of his hatred.
6. damage through distortion or unwarranted alteration: to do editorial violence to a text.
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I'm gonna have to call BS, I don't think a mugging can be committed nonviolently. I want a specific example that isn't just a misunderstanding. It can be done unarmed, I realize, but I'm asking about the "nonviolent" part.

This might also come in handy:
Dictionary.com said:
mug⋅ging [muhg-ing]
-noun
an assault or threat of violence upon a person, esp. with intent to rob.
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Think about that for a minute.
 
onthejon, why do you assume that you have a 50/50 percent chance of getting shot with compliance?

Peetzkilla is right. its stupid to draw on someone that has a bead on you, and should only be reserved as a last option...

Its not about proving a point, curbing the mugging rate, or any other gung ho crap some people can come up with. Its about saving your life... I say play the odds (which incidentally are not 50/50, and also incidentally not always to comply)
 
bout 20 years ago i was robbed at gun point..mid day at a large mall.

was not aware at that time in my life and did not own a gun...but that said, knowing what i know know...even if i HAD been carrying and somehow got snucked up on ...there would have been no way to draw and fire. the grommet knew what he was doing and was a predator.

i gave him my wallet and lived...i honestly feel that had i had a gun and the training i do today...i still would have given him my wallet and lived.

the simple fact that i carry daily, now means my situational awareness is keeping me out of this kind of trouble. my head is up and the radar is on at all times.
 
If you are armed you best better be more aware than ever. For sure you don't want a suprise & your weapon taken.
 
an assault or threat of violence upon a person, esp. with intent to rob.
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Your own definition proves my point. The mere presence of a gun is not "violence". It most certainly is IMPLIED violence which is why you must act in a manner that keeps it implied. The goal is going home safe, not "justice", not "I'll show him who he's messing with..", "not pit my skills against any thugs...", not "maybe this will reduce the crime rate."

All that is great stuff, really it is, and I agree with the sentiment. However, when a gun is pointed at your head, the ONLY THING that matters is making sure your still breathing tomorrow. Once you're that far behind the curve your ONLY hope is that they won't pull the trigger and your only logical action is to do whatever it takes to maximize the odds that they won't pull the trigger. Pulling your own gun at that moment is the opposite of logical. It guarantees that they WILL pull the trigger and when it's 4 on 1 you are dead. You will not survive that situation. I doubt that your family will be talking about how there will be fewer muggings now since someone fought back.
 
muggings

Here are a few tips to protect yourself from muggings.They are not fool proof,but they will help.
1:When you leave the house,put yourself into condition Yellow mode right away.
2:Get off the stupid cell phone.
3:Be aware of your surroundings.
4: If you perceive trouble,attempt to move away and place your hand in the area of your firearm.
4:If the Trouble continues,take cover and while pulling your gun give loud verbal commands.
I have had to use these many times.When the bad guy perceives you as a hard target,many times he will flee.Are these things perfect.....no.But its better than having your head wedged way up your ass while on the phone.
 
Lots of absolutes being thrown out in this thread.

Here's an example of a guy who was robbed by 2 badguys, one with a gun already drawn. He killed both of them without suffering any injuries.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329962

There are also plenty of examples of people who complied and lived.

I'm not saying one is better than the other- each situation is completely unique- but you can't be making absolutes when you're talking about this stuff.
 
but you can't be making absolutes when you're talking about this stuff.
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You're right. If you draw your gun on 4 guys who have guns pointed at your head at point blank range there is a 99.99% chance you will die. It's not a guarantee.
 
It would not have been a question of "killing for my wallet," it would be a question of DYING for your wallet.
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No offense peetzakilla but this sort of thinking makes me want to scream in frustration at the skewed viewpoint.

The INSTANT someone threatens you for your wallet the event stops being about the property and starts being about the threat to your life. So this case is neither about "killing for your wallet" nor is it about "dieing for your wallet", it's about handling a direct threat to the victim not an argument over "stuff".
 
Not everything has to be taken as a personal attack against you or your position. I simply stated that there is no one-size-fits-all response to anything. The folks who say they'd always draw are just as wrong as those who say you never should.
 
it's about handling a direct threat to the victim.
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Yes it is, in a manner that makes it most likely that the victim walks away unharmed. When a BG has a gun to your head or, in this case, 4 BGs that ALL have a gun to your head what are the logical options?

You can:

1) Play hero, vigilante, "handle a direct threat", "pit your skill", any number of other descriptions.... and die

2) Comply and hope they don't kill you anyway.


When hope is all you have it really sucks but sometimes it IS all you have.
I'll repeat again, IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, doing nothing, "complying", was obviously the correct course of action. The victims lost time and money, nothing else. The best outcome of a mugging is time and money lost. If you get in a defensive shooting, even one you "win", there's a world of legal and financial battles ahead. The best gunfight is one that didn't happen. Let's not go down the "He started the gunfight by pulling on me..." road. A gunfight doesn't start until someone pulls the trigger.
 
Hondo11 said:
Not everything has to be taken as a personal attack against you or your position.
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I didn't take it personally. I am serious as a gunfight. What ARE the odds of surviving a point blank 4 on 1 gunfight when the BGs are already drawn down and you are not? Do you think it's better than .001%? I don't.

The folks who say they'd always draw are just as wrong as those who say you never should.
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You're right about that too. I didn't say you should never draw. I said if someone has a gun to your head, never mind 4 some ones, and you draw, it's suicide. Who honestly believes otherwise?
 
Relax, I made no commentary about HOW to handle the situation, I just wanted to clarify what the situation was about ("stuff" vs "your life").
 
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