MUGGING and CC

G

George PT-111

Moderator
I am not sure where to post this thread, i think thsis the right spot for it.

Anyway, in Houston are there are lots of roberies and muggins goin on. I have talked to at least 4 people who were recently mugged near their appartments by one or multiple individuals. And I asked them " if you had a gun in you would it help you? would you had time to draw it?" and everyone said the same thin "NO" they said that those muggings happend so fast they wouldn't have time to draw the gun and if they did had a gun on them they prob. would loose it too.

I am not asking for advice here, I just wanted to post this for discusion.
 
Without knowing the situation and level of situational awareness of those individuals it is impossible to speculate on what could have helped any of them. However, unless they were physically attacked or had reason to believe that compliance was a dangerous course of action, then having a gun shouldn't affect the outcome.

If you have a gun and somebody says "Give me your money.", give them your money. Guns are a last resort. I would not use my gun to prevent an unarmed robbery or non-violent mugging.

Life > Property

No one dead > BG dead

Not being sued > money in my wallet

loss of money > risks of a gun fight

Act in a manner to minimize your risk of loss.
 
Where these armed muggings? If you're surprised by someone who suddenly puts a gun in your face and asks for money, then it's too late for you to draw your weapon. Have to ask how aware of your surroundings you were that you were surprised by someone like that.

But if they're unarmed? I mean, they're basically asking you to reach into a pocket, fanny pack, purse, jacket, etc., and extract something. They're hoping for money, but it could be your gun. Whether you're willing to kill over your wallet is you're call. I'm not.

But I think the automatic assumption that their gun would be taken away is just the result of exposure to so much anti propaganda. If you're carrying concealed, and they ask for your wallet, and you give them your wallet, they're not going to know that you even have a gun on you.
 
An armed mugging with a physical search is a nasty situation. If they get the jump on you you're fixing to have a bad day if you're armed. It actually is one situation where you may be better off unarmed, so long as the BG is content to leave with your valuables, which I'm guessing is what these particular guys did. Hopefully, a good level of situational awareness and avoidance of danger prone areas would go a long way in preventing the incident in the first place.
 
No Croz, two out for of my friends were hand searched, so YES they would have founds the pistol on them.
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Then I stand corrected. Sorry. I hear so many people make the natural assumption that they would get the gun taken away, that I thought that was the case there. Like another person said, armed assailants with hand searches are nasty situations. Sorry to hear about that situation, and your friends.
 
If you're surprised by someone who suddenly puts a gun in your face and asks for money, then it's too late for you to draw your weapon.
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I'll repeat what several have said - if you're aware of your surroundings and the people close to you - it'll never come to this.
 
Im not exactly sure how most muggings take place but if someone pulls a weapon on me and asks for my belongings im going to take a step back "reach for my wallet" and then let him have it when my hand returns with a gun in it.


peetzakilla said:
It actually is one situation where you may be better off unarmed, so long as the BG is content to leave with your valuables,
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There is never a situation in which being unarmed is better. Ive heard of enough cases in which the BG shot the person after mugging them that I would much rather make an attempt at defending myself then leave myself at the mercy of the BG
 
it kind of sounds like you are looking for a reason to not go native with a hoodie and a hammerless and your hands in the front pocket.

probably, there are lots of reasons not to do that, especially since nobody is getting hurt as it is. because other wise you are saying...lots of muggings, you shouldnt carry a gun cause it wont do you any good.
 
There is never a situation in which being unarmed is better.
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The situation described is probably one in which the victims were better off unarmed. They did not have the situational awareness (apparently) to avoid the situation. Attempting to draw a CCW on apparently multiple BGs that already had them covered with their own weapons would be near suicide. Sometimes, when you're that far behind the reactionary curve the safest thing to do is stay there, until it's safe to make a move. If the BG are physically searching you and have you covered with their own weapons, how exactly are you going to draw without being shot? Hoping that they do not intend to kill you is NOT NOT a great option, but it's better than MAKING THEM kill you.

The best thing is to stay aware and stay ahead of the curve. Barring those two, you're left with a series of bad options and the hope that you can recover the advantage.

After all, what we're after is going home safe and sound, not bringin' down the hammer on the BG's that have the NERVE to mug ME.
 
[qoute] I'll repeat what several have said - if you're aware of your surroundings and the people close to you - it'll never come to this. [qoute/]


That is such a bull****, there are so MANY MANY ways to come up to someone without you even suspecting anything at all, even if you are suspecting something you won't draw unless you feel danger for your life and usually you will feel danger is when some one is already pulled a gun on you.

I can easily pass you by looking at the stars, then pull my gun out and come behind you and place my gun right to your head, and YOU will not get a chance to draw!!!
 
Quote:
There is never a situation in which being unarmed is better.

The situation described is probably one in which the victims were better off unarmed. They did not have the situational awareness (apparently) to avoid the situation. Attempting to draw a CCW on apparently multiple BGs that already had them covered with their own weapons would be near suicide. Sometimes, when you're that far behind the reactionary curve the safest thing to do is stay there, until it's safe to make a move. If the BG are physically searching you and have you covered with their own weapons, how exactly are you going to draw without being shot? Hoping that they do not intend to kill you is NOT NOT a great option, but it's better than MAKING THEM kill you.

The best thing is to stay aware and stay ahead of the curve. Barring those two, you're left with a series of bad options and the hope that you can recover the advantage.

After all, what we're after is going home safe and sound, not bringin' down the hammer on the BG's that have the NERVE to mug ME.
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if they were armed they would likely have had better situational awareness.

i agree with onthejohn55 there is never a situation in which being unarmed is better.
its not a question of weather i am willing to kill for my wallet, but whether they are willing to threaten my life for my wallet.
any threat to my life/safety WILL be destroyed.
 
its not a question of weather i am willing to kill for my wallet, but whether they are willing to threaten my life for my wallet.
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It's neither. In the situation described, as it happened, not as we would like it to happen, they were better off unarmed. It would not have been a question of "killing for my wallet," it would be a question of DYING for your wallet.

Let's here from some people with Force-on-Force training to tell us about the futility of drawing on someone who already has you covered.

There's basically three possibilities:

1) You attempt to draw and get in a close contact fire fight. This will almost certainly result in all involved being shot.

2) They find your gun and steal it.

3) They find your gun and freak out that you're armed and shoot you.
 
PEETZILLA you are right on the money. I would like to hear some pros lerics.
#2 is not such a big problem though, you report it stollen and you good to go.
 
peetzakilla said:
There's basically three possibilities:

1) You attempt to draw and get in a close contact fire fight. This will almost certainly result in all involved being shot.

2) They find your gun and steal it.

3) They find your gun and freak out that you're armed and shoot you.
Today 07:30 PM
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so basically if i do nothing theres a 50% chance im dead... ill take my chances and defend myself
 
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i like to believe my situational awareness, and paranoia would have allowed me to notice them before they got too close.
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I hope so, and I believe you. I hope I would notice too. Looking down the barrel of a gun is a BAD time to become aware of its owner.
 
I hope so too, but nothing is perfect. if you want something you can make it happend. Trust me, if I wanted to pull my gun on anyone without him drawing first, I could do it, so can they.

I am even sure sure things like that happend from behind, one of my friends was mugged by 4 guys w/ 4 guns pointed at his head while he was told to look down and he was hand searched.

Thanks good thats all they did, 'cuase my buddy had a wife and 2 kids.
 
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