Mossberg vs Remington Pump Guns

bolt/ chamber

Thanks for your clarification. Yes, the bolt locks into the recess cut in the barrel "sleeve" ?????. But I'm thinking the action bars, and the bolt itself, reciprocate in aluminum races in the receiver.

Either way, tough gun (MOssberg) for the average guy. I've read the Mossy's saw use in the sand box as breachers a good bit, where they held up well and received much abuse.
 
The misinformation on this board is amazing.
An Express is not Parkerized. It is flash bluing over a bead blasted finish. Sometimes the salts baths did not do a good enough job removing the salts and those guns will rust easily. Oil is not a solvent for bluing salts, so all the slathering on of oil will do little. A good bath in warm soapy water and then drying and light lube has alleviated any issues on all of them I have run across. The newer Expresses have a MUCH smoother finish and the problem no longer exists.
Anyone saying a Nova is better than a Mossberg or a Remington is clearly overdosing on the Kool Aid. A rotary bolt has the advantage of being on an M-16/AR-15 and clones, that is all. There are now over 21 MILLION Mossbergs and Remingtons out there and none have shown any proclivity to bolt failures. I have seen 870s used to demonstrate that a gun can survive shooting a 12 gauge with a 20 gauge shell in the barrel. Remington started selling oversized locking blocks so the trapshooters with upwards of a quarter of a million rounds could easily compensate for wear without major gunsmithing.
A Mossberg 500 has never been the equal of the Wingmaster. But, the Mossberg 500 has always represented a hell of a deal on a real good gun all the way back to and including the single action bar models with super plain stained stocks. I came within a hair of getting one when a new Wingmaster Magnum was $150 out the door, and I was broke and was only able to save up enough for that Wingmaster to buy it the evening before opening day of goose season. As time passed the Mossberg - Remington price gap got wider and Remington had to introduce the Express to compete with the cheaper guns. America's love affair with cheaper has only gotten worse.
A pump gun is primarily a tool, and most of them, even the Chinese cheapies, do work. There are plenty of Remingtons and Mossbergs out there with many thousands of rounds thru them still going strong. Arguing which is "better" is a fool's gambit.
 
I've got a 1958 Remington Wingmaster and a Mossberg 500. The Wingmaster was inherited from my grandfather, but yes I do shoot it. Both of them a good guns. I'm left handed, so I shoot the Mossberg more than the Remington because I prefer the controls of the Mossberg (tang safety, etc.) to those on the Wingmaster.
 
Just for the record, some of us still consider the Winchester Model 12, the standard by which pump guns are judged, but back to the subject at hand:

I considered both the base model Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 when I was shopping for a budget 12 gauge shotgun. At the time, the Remington had a single rail, and the Mossberg had two rails. I racked them both and felt the Mossberg was smoother and easier to pump. It may have been those two particular examples, but I preferred the Mossberg. Fast forward a couple of decades, I have a handful of pump and semi auto guns, but I still kept the Mossberg.
 
The Remington 870 has ALWAYS had two rails, ever since 1950. The early Mossberg 500s did have a single action bar. They had to wait until Remington's patent expired to go to two bars.
The Ithaca 37 would have been the Ithaca 36 (or 35) , but they had to wait until Remington's patents expired as well.
 
By the way, total 870 production is now over 13 million. Haven't heard from Mossberg, but I suspect they are close behind.
 
@Virginian - Hmmmm, I checked the 870 schematics and it looks like you're right on the slide rails. Don't know why I remember it that way. Maybe it was just something the Kmart counter man told me to sell more Mossbergs.
 
I'll try to be perfectly objective here with the advantages of each for me. I have both a Mossberg 500 Persuader and a Remington 870 with tactical modifications.

First and foremost, I really dislike the "elevator" on the Remington being in the down position and being in the way while loading, and also the need to pull back the slide to unload shells from the magazine. Another thing I don't like is the excessive "slack" in the forearm that lets it rattle loudly when the hammer is not cocked. Makes it feel and sound cheap. Finally, it seems that whatever the finish is has no ability to resist rusting when the humidity is high. I have to keep an eye on this and give it a good oil wiping when surface rust begins to form. Also, it generally costs more than the Mossberg.

As for the advantages of the 870, far more accessories are available for customization, and the steel receiver is a good thing. I think I also prefer the safety location on the Remington since it's the same as on my Ruger 10/22.

Needless to say, I've decided that I like the Mossberg 500 better. More things to like at a lower cost for a shotgun that feels like it's better built.
 
I’ve got a New Haven 600CT (20-ga.)I bought back in the mid-late 70s. It’s is basically a Mossberg 500 with some slight differences. I believe it has a steel receiver, steel safety and steel trigger guard.

I much prefer the 500 style controls over the 870. Everything is just where it should be for me without changing my hand positions.

If I were looking for a new shotgun today, I’d probably be looking for a 590A1.
 
Both are reliable and well-handling guns. I've got both though I hold a slight preference for the Remington 870 since it's what my dad shot when I was growing up and everything just seems "right" on that design, though that's just personal preference. I will say though that comparing new to new, the Mossberg 500 action seems to operate a bit slicker. Obviously though either one with use will break in and improve over time.

If you do want the feel of the 870 but want the light handling of the aluminum receiver, if you can manage to find one the Manufrance La Salle was basically an 870 copy but with an aluminum receiver.
 
I'm a mossberg guy because I prefer the controls. Either one is reliable enough to not be concerned with reliability. Choose one that fits you better, fits your budget or particular needs better. Truthfully, I would also buy used. Cheap pawn shop 500's and 870's can be found for around 2 bills, although it might be a little scratched and beat up. Spend 20 bucks on new springs whether needed or not. You can buy one of each for not much more than the cost of a single new one.

I just wish Chevy and Ford were as reliable and cost efficient as 500's and 870's.
 
My new 870 Tactical is an excellent shotgun, much nicer in fit finish and function than the express models I had a few years ago.
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I wonder why Remington never made anything resembling an aluminum receiver 870. Lockup is between the bolt and barrel, so the receiver only has to be strong enough to resist recoil.

You hear about Remington not pursuing various police/military contracts since the all steel 870 can't compete with Mossberg on price. And on the budget side, it could be argued that the Maverick series is particularly difficult to beat.

Seems like there's some room in there to innovate, but things never went that way.
 
The rails still ride in grooves in the aluminum receiver. No one has entered a gun to run against Mossberg for a military contract. Having dealt with the military I can understand why they may feel that way.
To criticize either of the two most successful shotguns in history is rather egotistical in my opinion.
 
No one has entered a gun to run against Mossberg for a military contract.
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There is a ton of Remington 870's in US Military service with new added all the time. We had shorties similar to the shockwave set up as breaching tools. Great shotgun.

Just got an 870 I picked up for 200 bucks with a rifle sighted improved cylinder rem choke barrel Added a +3 mag tube and a nylon sling off an M14.

Not to ruffle any feathers.....

Army Seeks Future Sources for M870 Modular Combat Shotgun
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https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/07/03/813532/


Remington 870 Modular Combat Shotgun
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https://www.fbo.gov/index.php?s=opp...123282dc05b0d5d6e31381d7fc3&tab=core&_cview=0

The Remington 870 is alive and well in the US Military.
 
I have both and like both. The Wing Master is cosmetically prettier but better than the 500, I think not. I could replace the 500 for 1/2 the price of replacing the Remington . hdbiker
 
For contracts over a certain amount, the government requires a certain procedure. For gray navy paint the STILL require testing and all sorts of BS. For smaller purchases they can buy off the shelf.. That's why many units still do not carry the politically correct MATO approved Beretta 92.
 
For contracts over a certain amount, the government requires a certain procedure.
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In the Army, you find the 870's in USASOC units with the regular Army MP's using the bulk of the 590's.

In 1/75th, we had M97's Trench Guns. Love to have one of those today.

We did take some 590's out to Range 65 from the arms room once.

I have owned both and both work fine. Still own an 870.
 
I'm a mossberg guy because I prefer the controls.
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I have heard people tout the fact you can keep your finger on trigger while manipulating the controls on the Mossberg with a conventional stock.

Well, your booger hook comes off the bang switch when you are done destroying things. The booger hook is only on the bang switch when you are pointed at something your are prepared to destroy.

If I had looked at the stack and saw someone manipulating the controls of their weapon with their finger on the trigger they would be looking for a new job.

The Remington controls are set up to adhere to this principal. I find no difference in speed with either one regarding the action bar lock.

I find no difference in operation of the safety. If the weapon is going on safe, then I sure do not need my finger on the trigger while doing it. Stupid Idea and concept frankly a wonder why anyone would think that is an advantage.

If I have to take it off safe and fire then both systems work equally well. That is where it counts for combat or hunting.

The location of the safety on the Mossberg is fine for a normal stock but becomes much more difficult to operate with a pistol grip stock.

Checking to see if the weapon on safe is equal in both systems.

Having owned a Mossberg 590 and an Remington 870.....

Do not see any advantage to the Mossberg vs 870 for ergonomics outside to the Mossberg and pistol grip stock.
 
It has NOTHING to do with keeping your finger on the trigger during manipulation of the controls. That would be stupid.

But, i can maintain a firing grip and run the action bar release. I can have the Mossy in EITHER shoulder and run the safety with ease.
 
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