Model12Win
Moderator
Hoping they start delivering these soon. I have one on reserve.
Mossberg Shockwave
- Thread starter DPris
- Start date
Latest email today says my state "will not offer any opinion on this firearm" in terms of whether it's legal to possess or not, but will be sending some sort of info to FFL dealers.
Which leaves it up to a court to decide if somebody gets arrested with one under the current state law that appears to prohibit it.
Check carefully in YOUR state!
Denis
Which leaves it up to a court to decide if somebody gets arrested with one under the current state law that appears to prohibit it.
Check carefully in YOUR state!
Denis
FrankenMauser
New member
Good times, Denis.
When I was still living in the Land of Green Jello, I sent a few letters to the AG's office for guidance on the stupidly-worded, and poorly defined "firearms" laws of the state.
Two of the things I wanted a response to, specifically, were whether or not my 7.5" SBH was actually a firearm, and what definitions the state would use to classify an AR-15 pistol with a 12.5" barrel. ...Because the 12" maximum overall length bumped them from "handgun" to ... well, nothing.
At least at that time...
Over 12" OAL was not a handgun. (Some interpreted this to mean barrel length - but, again ... bad definition to deal with.)
No shoulder stock meant not a rifle or shotgun; or SBR or SBS.
But there was no "catch-all" for things that color outside the lines.
The definition of "firearm" specifically (and poorly) defined handguns, rifles, shotguns, SBRs, SBSs, and some black powder arms; but said absolutely nothing about something that might not meet any of those definitions.
Sheriff's departments, the Salt Lake ATF branch, the SLC SWAT commander, and everyone else that I asked for a contact kept telling me that only the AG could answer my questions.
The AG's only response was the same as what I later got in Idaho:
"Please consult a dictionary."
Helpful. Very helpful.
When I was still living in the Land of Green Jello, I sent a few letters to the AG's office for guidance on the stupidly-worded, and poorly defined "firearms" laws of the state.
Two of the things I wanted a response to, specifically, were whether or not my 7.5" SBH was actually a firearm, and what definitions the state would use to classify an AR-15 pistol with a 12.5" barrel. ...Because the 12" maximum overall length bumped them from "handgun" to ... well, nothing.
At least at that time...
Over 12" OAL was not a handgun. (Some interpreted this to mean barrel length - but, again ... bad definition to deal with.)
No shoulder stock meant not a rifle or shotgun; or SBR or SBS.
But there was no "catch-all" for things that color outside the lines.
The definition of "firearm" specifically (and poorly) defined handguns, rifles, shotguns, SBRs, SBSs, and some black powder arms; but said absolutely nothing about something that might not meet any of those definitions.
Sheriff's departments, the Salt Lake ATF branch, the SLC SWAT commander, and everyone else that I asked for a contact kept telling me that only the AG could answer my questions.
The AG's only response was the same as what I later got in Idaho:
"Please consult a dictionary."
Helpful. Very helpful.
In my carefully considered opinion, the Utah AG's Office is spectacularly worthless for a regular citizen trying to get information on Utah laws.
A while back I needed clarification on a gun law issue & called 'em.
I was politely told "We don't answer questions of law for the populace at large, go to BCI for that."
Gee, pardon me for asking the state's top legal division a...legal question.
I called BCI & got a very clear answer.
Couple years later, I called BCI to clarify something a local deputy had told me about gun possession by an 18-year-old nephew out on the desert. The BCI agent was very clear & concise, and the deputy was wrong (as I'd thought).
That's a part of the function of BCI- to explain state firearms law.
This go-round, BCI is flatly refusing to render any opinion on how state law applies to this gun, and after receiving an email late this afternoon from a second tier agent there laying out the new "guidance" that BCI plans to send out to dealers (after my prodding), the wording in that "guidance" does not even refer to the Mossberg Model at issue specifically (or mention its 14-inch barrel).
It advises dealers that BCI has become aware that several manufacturers are making bird's-head shotguns, and to get with ATF for directions on how to classify them.
It's the responsibility of the dealer to figure that out, not BCI, it says.
Utterly, completely, totally, and sensationally useless.
I'm pursuing other paths, including a state legislator.
Apparently, while the AG's Office does not have to deal with us regular peons, it does have to answer questions from a member of the state government.
Denis
A while back I needed clarification on a gun law issue & called 'em.
I was politely told "We don't answer questions of law for the populace at large, go to BCI for that."
Gee, pardon me for asking the state's top legal division a...legal question.
I called BCI & got a very clear answer.
Couple years later, I called BCI to clarify something a local deputy had told me about gun possession by an 18-year-old nephew out on the desert. The BCI agent was very clear & concise, and the deputy was wrong (as I'd thought).
That's a part of the function of BCI- to explain state firearms law.
This go-round, BCI is flatly refusing to render any opinion on how state law applies to this gun, and after receiving an email late this afternoon from a second tier agent there laying out the new "guidance" that BCI plans to send out to dealers (after my prodding), the wording in that "guidance" does not even refer to the Mossberg Model at issue specifically (or mention its 14-inch barrel).
It advises dealers that BCI has become aware that several manufacturers are making bird's-head shotguns, and to get with ATF for directions on how to classify them.
It's the responsibility of the dealer to figure that out, not BCI, it says.
Utterly, completely, totally, and sensationally useless.
I'm pursuing other paths, including a state legislator.
Apparently, while the AG's Office does not have to deal with us regular peons, it does have to answer questions from a member of the state government.
Denis
Model12Win
Moderator
Weren't they supposed to start shipping in March?
FrankenMauser
New member
Wow.
Things haven't really changed much.
Things haven't really changed much.
Uncle Malice
New member
These have been available to build yourself for years. I built mine in 2012.
I picked up a 500 Cruiser, ordered the 14" 590A1 front end from mossberg Directly, and added the Shockwave grip.
This is a much cheaper option though. The only thing I don't like about this version is that the grip apparently fixed and non-removable. I kept my old Cruiser parts so I can convert it back if I want to.
Shockwave does make a cap that you can use on a regular 500 cruiser where you can hacksaw the barrel and mag tube, then mount the cap with a pin instead of ordering the front end. This is a much cheaper option. I don't think it looks as nice, but it does let you continue using the larger hand guards. I'd love to be able to use the Magpul hand guard on mine, but it's too long. Oh well.
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=14
This is very much legal. They are not AOW or SBS. They are a "Firearm" as a shotgun must have a shoulder stock, by definition... and being over 26" puts it outside of the AOW category. Thus, it is simply classified as a firearm.
Here's mine.
I picked up a 500 Cruiser, ordered the 14" 590A1 front end from mossberg Directly, and added the Shockwave grip.
This is a much cheaper option though. The only thing I don't like about this version is that the grip apparently fixed and non-removable. I kept my old Cruiser parts so I can convert it back if I want to.
Shockwave does make a cap that you can use on a regular 500 cruiser where you can hacksaw the barrel and mag tube, then mount the cap with a pin instead of ordering the front end. This is a much cheaper option. I don't think it looks as nice, but it does let you continue using the larger hand guards. I'd love to be able to use the Magpul hand guard on mine, but it's too long. Oh well.
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=14
This is very much legal. They are not AOW or SBS. They are a "Firearm" as a shotgun must have a shoulder stock, by definition... and being over 26" puts it outside of the AOW category. Thus, it is simply classified as a firearm.
Here's mine.
ChuteTheMall
New member
I'd hate to have to explain all of this to an unenlightened small county sheriff's deputy who might decide to hold me in custody until his bosses can sort it all out.....and BATFE might change their mind at an inopportune time.
I do appreciate everyone who is making this commonly acceptable.
I do appreciate everyone who is making this commonly acceptable.
Uncle Malice
New member
That's why we keep a letter from the ATF on hand to show them that this is fully legal.
This isn't really one of those things that they can just change their mind on... like the shouldering the arm brace on the pistol/sbr's... Unless they rewrite the laws, it's pretty cut and dry.
I never saw any issues result with law enforcement back when we all first build these 5 years ago... I did see people getting harassed by their ranges. Hillbilly range nazis that couldn't read too good kept telling them that they couldn't shoot it there unless they had a stamp... even when presented with the ATF letter.
Seems that has died down a lot these days. Especially with Mossberg dropping a factory version, that shouldn't be an issue at all.
This isn't really one of those things that they can just change their mind on... like the shouldering the arm brace on the pistol/sbr's... Unless they rewrite the laws, it's pretty cut and dry.
I never saw any issues result with law enforcement back when we all first build these 5 years ago... I did see people getting harassed by their ranges. Hillbilly range nazis that couldn't read too good kept telling them that they couldn't shoot it there unless they had a stamp... even when presented with the ATF letter.
Seems that has died down a lot these days. Especially with Mossberg dropping a factory version, that shouldn't be an issue at all.
TruthTellers
New member
If I want as short a shotgun as possible, I'd rather get a KSG. These pistol grip only shotguns have never been easy to shoot guns and, this is hard to believe for some, you do have to aim a shotgun.
I'm not going to rush out and buy one, I'd rather have a KSG or SBS another shotgun and spend the $200 on that, however SBS isn't legal in every state, so I can understand the appeal to the Shockwave in that it's likely legal in all states.
I'm not going to rush out and buy one, I'd rather have a KSG or SBS another shotgun and spend the $200 on that, however SBS isn't legal in every state, so I can understand the appeal to the Shockwave in that it's likely legal in all states.
TruthTellers
New member
I've given this some thought and I'm actually warming up to the Shockwave for a few reasons. One being that all that this is lacking from being a SBS is a buttstock. If there's a way to put a stock on it (which I'm unsure there is) this makes for possibly the best shotgun... I mean "firearm" to convert to an SBS because the whole front end remains the same; there's no need to saw or cut the barrel down.
If it's possible to put a buttstock on it, all you do is send the paperwork to the ATF and after you get approved, you just find any old buttstock for a Mossberg 500/590 and attach it.
Also the price doesn't look to be that bad.
If it's possible to put a buttstock on it, all you do is send the paperwork to the ATF and after you get approved, you just find any old buttstock for a Mossberg 500/590 and attach it.
Also the price doesn't look to be that bad.
Model12Win
Moderator
Well all I know is that if Mossberg doesn't start shipping these soon, I'm cancelling my reserve order at Buds Gun Shop. I've waited 2 months already, it's getting ridiculous. This gun has no R&D involved and there is no reason for the delay. One more month and I can get the 100% refund from Buds.
armoredman
New member
I can see these being very popular with the Mad Max crowd. Interesting toy to keep in a bug out bag, as well, for the "Z***** Response Teams".
Honestly, might make an interesting firearm to use in an armored truck, with the easier to move characteristics, and you don't aim much out of a gun port, to be sure. One in 20 ga might be usable, for me.
Honestly, might make an interesting firearm to use in an armored truck, with the easier to move characteristics, and you don't aim much out of a gun port, to be sure. One in 20 ga might be usable, for me.
Uncle Malice
New member
They are shipping. I've seen them on shelves twice. Might be sporadic in distribution, but they're coming.
Model12Win
Moderator
When, where???
Are you sure they weren't other companies guns? Keep in mind other companies were selling the same thing made from Mossberg receivers. Now Mossberg is just doing the same thing in house and selling it as the "Shockwave".
Uncle Malice
New member
Colonial Shooting Academy in Richmond, VA posted that they had them in stock as of Friday, the 17th at $429.95. They specifically stated that they are the Mossberg Shockwave.
Numerous other vendors on Facebook and Instagram have been posting them. Seems like they've been showing up for the past week.
I'm sure Bud's probably has a ton of them that they need to get through the books and whatnot. I bet you'll see it soon though.
reynolds357
New member
To each his own, but to me it looks about as worthless as tits on a boar hog.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Guns like this can be fun.
But- it's got to be 26" overall. You could have a 5" barrel and a big long pistol grip. But-why?
But- it's got to be 26" overall. You could have a 5" barrel and a big long pistol grip. But-why?