Mosin barrel slugging gone horribly wrong

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was envisioning leaving the vinegar/peroxide solution in the barrel for about 10 minutes, not a few days, but since I didn't specify, DO feel free to construe it in the most ludicrous manner possible, especially if it prevents you from conceding anything.

And I think your idea about putting the lead sinker in vinegar/peroxide solution, then measuring it is an excellent one! I may just give that a try !
 
IMO,it is not ludicrous to suppose the vinegar will not release the mess from the bore in 10 minutes.
It is not ludicrous to suppose the vinegar will penetrate the end grain and splits,and be trapped in the bore.Swelling the wood tighter.From that point on,vinegar is present in the bore.It also interacts with the chemistry of the wood,which may (or not?) affect the corrosive properties of the vinegar.I do not know if acetic acid is more volatile than water,but,if not,would the acidity not increase as the water evaporated?

And it is not ludicrous to think the man with the problem would be frustrated by the failure of such"science" and throw his hands up and walk away for a time.
Tell me,do you apply the same standard of "refusal to concede" to yourself?Or is there an element of hypocrisy?

And do you have the confidence in your own ideas to put a vinegar towel on your own gun while you wait for the lead slug to dissolve .2mm?

Vinegar will rust steel,or it will not.Would not your academic "science" prefer data born out by experiment ?
Oh,and the peroxide did not appear until your recent contentious and critical response.Had our subject taken your advice when it was presented,would he not have vinegar in his barrel,sans peroxide?
 
Last edited:
What about chambering a round and shooting the wood out? Life is too short to hand around drilling, pouring acid, vinegar, WD40, CRC, etc. put in on YouTube:D
 
That would be a fun project. Get enough wood out to get a pulled down round chambered. (Just primer, powder, and a bit of wax) Put the rifle in a vice. Put a 50 foot rope on the trigger, get behind a blast shield, then put the explosion on youtube. I have always wanted to know what the weakest point in a Mosin is. I am sure that experiment would identify it for us.
Having said that, it might simply clear the bore with no damage. Who knows?
 
Response to Kosh75287

I have read through your proposals and I really like how you are thinking outside of the box. That is what I was looking for in this forum (out of the box thinking).

However, the lead slug is not really the "BIG" part of the problem. The sections of wood dowel being stuck in the barrel are the "BIG" problem as they extend the majority of the way through the bore. Once the wood pieces are removed it would be relatively easy to remove the lead alloy slug any number of ways including shooting it out with a "bullet removed" cartridge of "light load" as many gun smiths would do if it were just a lead alloy slug.
 
OK, I'm not a gunsmith, a chemist, a physicist or even a college graduate.
But if the major problem is the wooden dowel rod pieces, as I have seen mentioned more than once in this thread, then why not:
1. Remove the stock, bolt and other removable parts from the rifle
2. Secure the rifle with the end of the thing with the most wood in it pointed up
3. Squirt some old fashioned Zippo Lighter Fuel into the barrel
4. Light the fuel thus burning the wood and heating the lead.

Now, am I sure this won't ruin the heat treatment done to the barrel? No I'm not. See my first sentence above.
But, I'm just thinking outside the box and trying to use the KISS method.

If this is not an acceptable method according to the many experts we have here, then please disregard it.
 
Yeah, yeah, kush, you win.
Click to expand...
There you GO, again, SCRUNCH (THAT one's to make you feel more at home). Nice to know that what you lack in attention to detail, you compensate for, with consistency.

Sorry my typing on my phone is not up to snuff.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am sorry your typing, and worse still, your attention to detail is not up to snuff, either. BUT, they that the first step on the way to recovery is to recognize that you have a problem, so DO carry on.

Thermodynamics was a 100 level course, physical chemistry was a 200 level course, quantum mechanics was a 400 level course, inorganic chem was a 300 level course, metabolism and regulation was a 400 level course, etc, etc.
Click to expand...
Based on your descriptions of classes and their academic levels, it is evident that you've been away from the field for a very long time. Perhaps some things have been learned in those subjects, since you "graced" a classroom with your presence.

Done anything lately?
Click to expand...
Yes, as a matter of fact. I'm currently engaged in research of the structure-activity relationships of novel phenanthrene-nucleus mu-opioid agonists as possible higher therapeutic index central analgesics and opioid addiction treatments. Rather interesting and cutting-edge stuff! And THANK YOU for your concern over the progress of my career, but it's being managed quite well without your interest. Or was THAT too detailed?

And do you have the confidence in your own ideas to put a vinegar towel on your own gun while you wait for the lead slug to dissolve .2mm?
Click to expand...
It would depend on the weapon involved, but yes, I would be willing to try it with a Mosin-Nagant. It might alter the finish, which is nothing that cannot be fixed in a day. To my knowledge, the soviets didn't bother applying finish to the interiors of the barrel. Your point was what, exactly?

HiBC: Hey,Kosh,but,yeah,you did leave out the peroxide,a more grievous error than a typo ,yes?Speck in Scorch's eye,log in yours?[
Click to expand...
Not so much and not by a long shot. If all my detractors conveniently glommed onto my oversight as some glaring indictment of my skills as a chemist, I DO apologize to them. But please tell me... WHICH of THESE pointed out my oversight before they did? Scorch? HiBC? ANYone? No logs OR splinters, here, HiBC, but thanks for playing.

It is not ludicrous to suppose the vinegar will penetrate the end grain and splits,and be trapped in the bore.Swelling the wood tighter.From that point on,vinegar is present in the bore.It also interacts with the chemistry of the wood,which may (or not?) affect the corrosive properties of the vinegar.I do not know if acetic acid is more volatile than water,but,if not,would the acidity not increase as the water evaporated?
Click to expand...
Yes, trace amounts of acetate might make it into the wood, which would ALSO convert it into CELLULOSE ACETATE, which is also (relatively) soluble in water, and not aggressively corrosive. Would it "affect the corrosive properties of the the vinegar" ? Yes, it would. It would reduce or negate them altogether.

It is not, and never has been my premise that this treatment will remove substantial portions of wood. It IS my contention that one or more such treatments would probably remove enough of the lead to free up the wooden dowel (swollen or not) enough to facilitate removal.

Was I proposing that the OP leave the Acetate/Peroxide mixture in the barrel after said treatments? Not only no, but HEAVENS NO! After 2 or 3 treatments, the gun owner flushes it with hot water. Several times. This increases removal of the lead acetate formed, and trace corrosives remaining. I would have CHEERFULLY emphasized this given the opportunity, but I was bit busy defending the idea against ad hominum attacks by folks who'd never entertained the possibility of it working (and probably never would because obstinacy is always so much more fun than edification).

Oh, and THANKS SO MUCH for letting me offer my suggestion in so open and welcoming a forum! Dreadful sorry that it caused any of you to recoil in terror at the prospect of considering an unorthodox approach to a fairly common problem!
 
I stand corrected.

Since it's a Savage and not a MN, I stand corrected. I also stand by what I've said.

The Moisin was back in 2012.This is a Savage.Try to keep up.
Click to expand...

I will, if YOU will...
 
Dreadful sorry that it caused any of you to recoil in terror at the prospect of considering an unorthodox approach to a fairly common problem!
Click to expand...
There was never any reason to "consider" your approach

It wasn't worth consideration because, for the many reasons already given, it wouldn't work anyway
 
If it is now a Savage and not a Mosin, would not the proper thing to do be open a new thread instead of reviving a dead one. It would be easier to keep up if the thread was actually about what it is supposed to be about.:rolleyes:
 
Yeah the second learning part of this would be to always start a new thread not to confuse people. If need be reference the other thread by inserting the link.

I also thought it was a mosin till I read all 4 pages.

Good luck with the Savage and hopefully others learn from this before getting dowels suck in their barrels.
 
To the OP....

With that said I am already 1/3 of the way through my barrel/wood dowel problem and there is no turning back. I am in agreement with your likely assessment of reduced accuracy. However, being that this was my FIRST hunting style rifle I have to admit that I did purchase it as a "learner" rifle. Most of my firearm experience is with pistols. I reload and cast for a number of calibers and have slugged many bores (with oak dowels no less). Fear not!!! I shall never slug a bore with an oak dowel again!!!

My goal was to learn the basics of long guns and reloading for them. That includes how to cast lead bullets for them. I purchased an entry level Savage Axis 308 for the purpose of learning about 1 year ago.
Click to expand...

What you are doing with the aluminum rod is a fair attempt at ending your plight. I *DO like the idea of using the aluminum arrow shaft as a sleeve to protect the bore. kudos to who ever mentioned it. Fear not, for you have hope. Do what you're doing and clear the jam. I would certainly test fire it for accuracy after that. If you're shooting 1" groups at 100 yards, then you win. If not, then you can swap the barrel on a Savage axis yourself with 200 bucks, a barrel nut wrench, vise, and an afternoon of research/work. ER Shaw makes a pretty good inexpensive barrel. I have a varmint contour on my Savage and it shoots less than .5 moa all day every day.


By the way, I'll see your "chemistry up to and including biochem and endocrinology" and raise you my Physical Chemistry I (Thermodynamics) and II (Quantum Mechanics), Inorganic Chemistry, Physical Inorganic Chemistry, Metabolism & Regulation, Advanced Biochemistry and Advanced Synthetic Methods (Organic AND Inorganic).
Click to expand...

Yes, as a matter of fact. I'm currently engaged in research of the structure-activity relationships of novel phenanthrene-nucleus mu-opioid agonists as possible higher therapeutic index central analgesics and opioid addiction treatments. Rather interesting and cutting-edge stuff! And THANK YOU for your concern over the progress of my career, but it's being managed quite well without your interest. Or was THAT too detailed?
Click to expand...

You know, some of the smartest men I've ever met didn't feel the need to brag about their credentials. Just like many Infantry Marines and Soldiers who have seen hell don't feel the need to jump up every 5 minutes (or 5 days, or 5 months) to remind everyone that they are a war hero. The guys that do feel the need to do this are either fake or extremely arrogant... and regardless of which one it is almost every one else sees them for what they are and tries to steer clear when possible. This is not a personal attack, just some advice from someone who has been around the block once or twice.

BTW, for what it's worth I do admire the research you are doing into alternative opiate analgesics and therapeutic opiate therapy (addiction treatment). Pain pills are a HUGE problem that many people don't recognize. Anyway, back on topic as we've got to keep it firearm related.
 
Last edited:
I have worked with brilliant engineers(just ask them,they will tell you)
Click to expand...

^^ This, almost made me spit out my coffee this morning...
Brings back memories of structural drawings that looked great to them on paper, not so great when it came to actually trying to build it in the field...
 
Hey I suggested a brass rod not aluminum but I seriously doubt that either will damage the rifling. Either are simply too soft.

I too know about some of them engineers......One of my instructors was the head engineer at the Hanford Power Plant.......he made the mistake of bringing his project of radiation sniffers to the class for a critique. Well I sure critigued it..... some engineer no wonder they could not track radiation being emitted from the stacks when the engineer forgets about venturis and places the sensors in the wrong places....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top