More open carry guys scaring the public

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Brian,

If they are attention whores, looking for their 15 minutes of fame, isn't multiple pages on an international gun forum giving them exactly what they want?
 
To be billed - NOT a lawyer - I think you just have to have a preponderance of evidence that a crime occurred as compared to beating a reasonable doubt standard. Given a couple of cases in TX and some nationally, certain jurisdictions might go for you.

Frank and Spats probably could comment better on that. So would an antigun DA prosecute a lesser degree gun nut for shooting a higher degree gun nut on the continuum of gunnutiness? The mind boggles.

How about a brandishing charge if you just drew on such folks?
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Drawing on them is at least some form of battery I would think if the claim of self defense in the circumstance is not sustained.

I'm just thinking that in the state where burglars have been shot by neighbors despite 911 calls and been quickly kicked out, this would would have a strong chance of not making past initial arrest stage (if even that).
 
Looking back to the first post, I figure that the negative publicity from these OC stunts will kill any chance of passage of open-carry legislation in the next legislative session.

Not that I think that it would pass, but I would not be surprised to see some effort to outlaw carrying long guns around in public.
 
Then Tom Servo...What is the point and what do you hope to accomplish?
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The point is that we need to start policing our own, and we need to discourage these sorts of antics. Yes, people do all sorts of stupid things, but this brand of stupid stands to hurt our cause.
 
SocialAnarchist said:
Brian,



If they are attention whores, looking for their 15 minutes of fame, isn't multiple pages on an international gun forum giving them exactly what they want?
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Mother Jones et al will see to their 15 minutes of infamy. I only care that we are not associated with them and are unequivocal about it.
 
Mother Jones et al will see to their 15 minutes of infamy.
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Actually, they're going to stretch it out far longer than that. They've mirrored all the videos, and they're going to use them to portray us as buffoons for a long time to come.
 
While no one here is saying that long gun OC should be illegal, nigh everyone is arguing that is should be socially unacceptable. Is that about the size of it?
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I'm not saying long gun OC SHOULD be socially unacceptable.

I'm not even really claiming that long gun OC IS socially unacceptable.

What I am saying is that staging long gun OC RALLIES on private property, ESPECIALLY without getting the property owner's permission is a really bad idea. One that is certain to irritate the property owners, to motivate other property owners/corporations to come out with public policy statements that are effectively anti-gun, and to turn public opinion against those holding the rallies and anyone else that appears to be associated with them.

This kind of thing makes people (including the legislators who were planning to support OC legislation) want to distance themselves from "the idiots who hacked off Sonic, Home Depot, Chilis, Jack In The Box, Chipotles and made us all look bad."
We all stick together until someone does something someone else doesn't deem right or necessary.
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Sorry. I will NOT support someone's actions just because they own guns and want to expand gun rights. If someone does stupid stuff in public with guns I do not support those actions no matter who they are.

If you really care about OC, and you really want to do something positive to support OC, get ahold of these folks and tell them to stop. Tell them to ask for advice from a wide variety of persons before they plan any sort of public demonstration with firearms EVER again.
If they are attention whores, looking for their 15 minutes of fame, isn't multiple pages on an international gun forum giving them exactly what they want?
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There are times when it's necessary to speak up. Watching years of steady progress made in restoring TX handgun rights being undone in a matter of days by a small group of misguided gun owners is NOT a time to sit quietly.
 
Apparently, CJ Grisham isn't getting it:

"When you've got the TSRA and the NRA basically coming down on us for standing up for our rights, that's where our problem is," he said. "Because now you guys are siding with Moms Demand Action."
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This accusation was levelled at Charles Cotton, a guy who's actually trying to get open carry legalized in Texas through legislative action and lobbying.

This is an excellent illustration of the divide between the two camps.
 
http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics...son-open-carry-demonstrations-could-backfire/

This is an article quoting George Lavender (who introduced the Open Carry bill in the House in 2013 and 2011) and Jerry Patterson (who has been a huge Second Amendment & open carry supporter at the Capitol in various capacities for over a decade). Patterson helped set up the Open Carry protest at the Alamo last October.

"Patterson, who had not read the NRA statement, added about the Texas open carry demonstrations: “In certain cases it’s not helping. It’s actually probably hurting.”

“I have told the groups that I have talked to not to do this right now. I think it is more harmful. The only reason it wouldn’t pass is if we do something stupid and attract bad publicity,” Lavender told Texas Politics, emphasizing that open carry legislation appears to be a slam dunk in the 2015 session. “It’s good legislation. This could be harmful in getting it passed. We’re so close to getting it done. I would hate to see it damaged inadvertently.”

Charles Cotton, an NRA Board of Director and also well known at the Capitol and Alice Tripp, the TSRA lobbyist, also joined a roundtable with C. J. Grisham on the topic of open carry. According to Cotton, their input was ignored by Open Carry Texas.
 
Divide & Conquer.....

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/06/02/nra-splits-with-open-carry-texas-amid-chipotle-beef/
> The National Rifle Association has another fight on its hands – and this time it is calling
> out a fellow gun-rights group for being too extreme.
>
> The NRA on Friday posted a 1,400-word unsigned column urging a group called Open-
> Carry Texas to lay off its publicity stunts during which owners of large rifles tote them near
> and inside stores and restaurants. The nation’s largest gun-rights organization called
> the carrying of large rifles in public spaces “downright weird” and said the Texas group
> puts all gun owners’ rights at risk with their actions.

BN-DB129_openca_G_20140602173557.jpg


The NRA may (and may not) be a lot of things to a lot of people, but they are dead right on this one. I can think of absolutely nothing that will turn what up until now has been a considered loosening of state laws restricting citizen carry of weapons back upon itself than the recent actions of these "I-got-my-rights/In-your-face" people.

> “I see open carry as a positive thing and I think if people are interested in educating
> the public they ought to consider what’s the most effective way to educate
> the public.” says the Open-Carry demonstration advocate.

On the contrary, I see such actions as an absolutely certain way to lend credibility to the Anti's argument that "...these gun people are scary and out of control."

I consider judgement to be the most important factor in the armed citizen.
These people aren't showing me much of that.
 
Open carry is dumb, presents really bad image, says "shoot me first".
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This is one of the silliest statements I have read in awhile. I do not live in the "Wild West" or a heavily crime infested area... But the neighbor lady did have some flowers stolen the other night.

I open carry. It is sometimes easier for me to open carry when working around the place. I have opened carried in town.

OK, now that being said, I did not open carry in order to draw attention to myself. I did not walk into an eating establishment with my gun at the ready, finger on the trigger, looking for a photo op. I went about my business.

These people, if they want to protest and carry long guns openly, go for it. Stay in the public place, carry the rifles and signs, and after the protest, demonstration, gathering, what-ever you want to call it, put the damn gun away and go get something to eat.

I bet there would be a much higher chance of them actually educating someone if they were sitting in a nearby restaurant and someone said "Hey, weren't you with that group carrying guns?" (I know a lot of people who would not approach someone carrying a gun.)

Politicians get elected by popular vote. Right now it appears that open carry in TX is not very dang popular. So how do you expect a politician to get elected if he runs on an unpopular topic? Average Joe blows votes for people who he thinks represent his values. He is not going to vote for a politician who wants to put his kids at risk. (Make no mistake, this is the underlying theme of the anti-gunners.)

I believe that most people here are pretty much saying open carry has its place and then there are places/times when you do not open carry. How do you think the public would react if a bunch of 2nd Amendment supporters went to the funerals of the Sandyhook shooting carrying guns?
 
Uncle Buck said:
...Politicians get elected by popular vote. Right now it appears that open carry in TX is not very dang popular. So how do you expect a politician to get elected if he runs on an unpopular topic?...
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Nicely put.

We need to be making our positions more popular rather than less popular. Poorly thought out public actions make our positions less popular.
 
Charles Cotton wasn't the only one to criticize OCT. Rep. Lavender and Jerry Patterson are also taking the NRA's side on this.

And apparently, it is about taking sides. Grisham has resorted to the all-too-familiar "us or them" rhetoric on his Facebook page:

It is unfortunate that an organization that claims to be dedicated to the preservation of gun rights would attack another organization fighting so hard for those rights in Texas. (...) Already, OCT members are posting pictures of themselves cutting up their life membership cards. If they do not retract their disgusting and disrespectful comments, OCT will have no choice but to withdraw its full support of the NRA and establish relationships with other gun rights organizations that fight for ALL gun rights, instead of just paying them lip service the way the NRA appears to be doing.
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Good, he will disassociate himself from prudent and wise folks and find some birds of a feather to marginalize himself with. Don't let the door hit you... on the way out.
 
Don't let the door hit you... on the way out.
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It'll cost the NRA roughly 11 one-year memberships.

The irony to the threats of quitting the NRA is that most of these folks were never part of the NRA to begin with.
 
This type action is becoming a problem and a hazard to individual freedoms going forward. People can't seperate the self from others, they often say "we" when they are only one person. They lack empthy and sound judgment in terms of damage to others by actions taken in the name of "we". This type sound judgment comes from empthy and humility. The problem is called Narcissim. The age of the selfie and social media "friends".....I fear this will only get worse.

It's like this: Having a picture of "me" with my gun in this place, what could be better than that? I'm in as long as I get the picture, and we have the right!
 
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