More open carry guys scaring the public

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No, you are just attacking/denigrating those who do OC.


Don't like OC, fine:don't OC. Simple, right? Don't carry water for the other side.
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That's not what this is about. TX was poised to introduce and possibly pass legislation to legalize handgun OC in TX. The ill-advised actions of a small minority have not only jeopardized that plan but, if they continue may actually generate sufficient impetus to pass restrictions on long gun OC.

No one here is saying that laws should be passed against OC, in fact just the reverse is true. We're saying that we DON'T want laws passed against OC so it's time to stop working to turn public opinion against OC by engaging in more of these ill-advised and poorly planned demonstrations.
I like how you take the most extreme example possible- "parading around" with rifles ......
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That's exactly what is going on in TX right now. The last demonstration that fit that description was yesterday.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...lly-at-home-depot-in-north-richland-hills.ece
Do what we do, never back down, and when handed a defeat, get up and go again...
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I don't know what reality you live in. In the reality where I live, it can take DECADES to recover from getting "handed a defeat" in the form of anti-gun legislation. The restrictions on handgun carry in TX passed after the civil war are still something many Texans have to deal with every day. It wasn't until over 100 years after the initial passage of those laws that Texans finally had a clearly legal way to carry handguns in public again and we still can't carry handguns openly.

If the legalization of handgun OC is derailed by these demonstrations there is a very real possibility that nobody will be willing to touch it again for years. Legislators are already calling the TSRA asking them to try to stop the demonstrations.

Rather taking the Pollyanna attitude that being handed a defeat is no big deal, we need to avoid helping the other side defeat us.

The most effective weapon in the gun rights fight is public opinion. We need understand how to use it for our own purposes and also how to avoid turning it into a weapon for our enemies to use against us.

Anyone who cares anything about the preservation and advancement of OC, should stop defending these people and start doing anything possible to influence them to stop doing what they're doing.
 
If you want to OC in Texas, carry something like a Ruger Old Army -- or like the guy who stopped an armed robbery a couple of years ago*, a replica cap-and-ball Remington. It is legal to OC a handgun there if it meets the legal definition an "antique". Your average cop or deputy might not know that, so don't be surprised if you're arrested.

If you just have to open carry a long gun, put it in a scabbard that covers the trigger. (do scabbards like that exist?) And keep your hands off it!

*ETA: not in Texas, but I don't remember where it was. Virginia?
 
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Scaring the public or scaring the antis? There is a huge difference and I do not see people in public getting scared around people open carrying. What I think is occurring is antis are getting their panties in a wad on TV claiming the public is scared for the promotion of their stance. Reality and TV are not in sync.
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If you walk into a Chilis in a three point sling with your hand on the grip with a couple of your best friends doing the same thing, I hope my reaction is to try to bail out the back door.

One day that will end badly. I am saying it now. These guys are going to end up spread eagled on the floor sometime, or shot.

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I do not see people in public getting scared around people open carrying.

Wrong. 'People in public' get antsy as hell when they see anyone walking around in town with a long gun. Too many mall/theater/school shootings have begun with somebody walking in with a long gun. They call the cops more often than not. It can be a tense situation for a few minutes. Then there are the legal concealed carriers who see them and have to make a decision. Thankfully, it is usually the right one.

The Rifle OC crowd knows all these things. Evidently they are less concerned about the potential outcomes than they are about 'making a point'.
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Exactly.
 
I do not see people in public getting scared around people open carrying.
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I hear this all the time. Usually, it's supplemented with "I open carry everywhere, and nobody ever says anything."

Sure they don't. Not to the carrier's face, that is. After all, he's the guy with the gun. The question is, what's being said that he doesn't hear?

One day that will end badly. I am saying it now. These guys are going to end up spread eagled on the floor sometime, or shot.
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Or it's going to end with the anti-gun jackpot: one of these guys has an ND and hurts a child. Look closely at how the weapons are slung and carried. Most of these guys don't know how to do so correctly. Who wants to guess how many of these guys even know how to use them?
 
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The arguments being made might have sounded similar to you, but the two subjects aren't even remotely similar and you know it.

On the contrary. They have much in common: The arguments that supported them are much the same, ("You don't need that/need to do that", and "It's scaring the uninformed public and is therefore a Bad Thing") and the issue was used by the other side as a wedge to divide the pro-gun side.

It worked then, and is, as evidenced by comments in this thread, working now.
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How about (and the You is not directed at You but the OCers pulling these stunts):
1. You have to be the King of idiots to think this is a viable strategy for increasing the chances of passage of open carry legislation in Texas. Or

2. How do we know you're not secretly an antigunner funded bunch of red flaggers, because thats the only logical argument that can be made?
 
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none of us are advocating any kind of ban on open carry!

No, you are just attacking/denigrating those who do OC.
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No we're denigating people acting stupidly, without class, in a manner designed to not only sink their issue, but push back gun rights by decades.
 
Tom Servo,

I do not see people in public getting scared around people open carrying.
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I hear this all the time. Usually, it's supplemented with "I open carry everywhere, and nobody ever says anything."

Sure they don't. Not to the carrier's face, that is. After all, he's the guy with the gun. The question is, what's being said that he doesn't hear?
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So, what's your point? I am LEGALLY open carrying a pistol, in a state that allows me to do so. I am not flaunting it, I am not touching it every 2 1/2 seconds to show people I have a gun. I carry my pistol and go about my business and do not draw attention to myself.

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your face here on the topic of open carry saying you wouldn't deny that right, but then offhandedly attacking it by saying that it doesn't do anything but cause trouble. I disagree. In my situation not only hasn't any customer said anything to me, no store employee has either, and the cops have not been called to come and check on me.

Further, I restate my point that there are indeed members of this forum that are supposedly staunch Second ammendment advocates that are more than willing to stop my legal open carrying of a pistol. As I stated before I believe it is idiotic to intentionally draw attention to yourself in a convoluted display of your rights to open carry.
 
SocialAnarchist said:
Further, I restate my point that there are indeed members of this forum that are supposedly staunch Second ammendment advocates that are more than willing to stop my legal open carrying of a pistol.
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While I agree that some people on this forum criticize all types of open carry, I've NEVER seen anyone on TFL advocate making it illegal. If you've seen a TFL member advocating for a ban on open carry, please post a link to that thread.
 
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Tom Servo,


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I do not see people in public getting scared around people open carrying.

I hear this all the time. Usually, it's supplemented with "I open carry everywhere, and nobody ever says anything."

Sure they don't. Not to the carrier's face, that is. After all, he's the guy with the gun. The question is, what's being said that he doesn't hear?

So, what's your point? I am LEGALLY open carrying a pistol, in a state that allows me to do so. I am not flaunting it, I am not touching it every 2 1/2 seconds to show people I have a gun. I carry my pistol and go about my business and do not draw attention to myself.

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your face here on the topic of open carry saying you wouldn't deny that right, but then offhandedly attacking it by saying that it doesn't do anything but cause trouble. I disagree. In my situation not only hasn't any customer said anything to me, no store employee has either, and the cops have not been called to come and check on me.

Further, I restate my point that there are indeed members of this forum that are supposedly staunch Second ammendment advocates that are more than willing to stop my legal open carrying of a pistol. As I stated before I believe it is idiotic to intentionally draw attention to yourself in a convoluted display of your rights to open carry.
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You're confusing the point of the thread. We're not talking about a guy in Arizona going into a diner with a holstered Colt Peacemaker, peacefully eating breakfast and drinking his cup of Joe. We're talking about group of people coming in armed with rifles, several with hands on pistol grips in three point slings in tacticool gear and looking remarkably nutty

Like they may shoot the place up.
 
Theohazard,

While I agree that some people on this forum criticize all types of open carry, I've NEVER seen anyone on TFL advocate making it illegal. If you've seen a TFL member advocating for a ban on open carry, please post a link to that thread.
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Frankly, I never said that anyone said to make it illegal. But I have been forcefully told by some in my other topic about my open carrying, that other than in the woods, or the wild west, NO ONE should open carry. Their opinion is 100% WRONG, and clearly an infringement on my Second Ammendment rights and the laws of MY state. As I stated before they don't have to like it anymore thanI like their narrow minded viewpoint, but as long as I follow the law, don't make a spectacle of myself, and go about my day it is none of their business what I do.
 
While no one here is saying that long gun OC should be illegal, nigh everyone is arguing that is should be socially unacceptable. Is that about the size of it?
 
Sure they don't. Not to the carrier's face, that is. After all, he's the guy with the gun. The question is, what's being said that he doesn't hear?
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That's a very good question. How often is "not wanting to risk confronting the stranger openly carrying a gun" mistaken by the carrier for "everybody was cool with me openly carrying a gun?"
 
In the manner we have seen and with the correlated behaviors, it is unacceptable in a polite society.

Let me give another example. In San Antonio, you are legally dressed if you cover just your genitals and anus. You can cover them with a flesh covered thong.

It is acceptable to you, for someone to wear this and then go stand by the school bus for the little kids? It's legal.

Now wearing this outfit, hold your EBR in the manner of the little guy in Chipolte photo and walk into a movie theater showing Frozen for the little kids. Is that acceptable for most folks on a social basis?

Now video yourself yelling at folks who object and call them names. Hopefully, you won't video a muzzle from a concealed carrier at your last moments on Earth.
 
zincwarrior

You're confusing the point of the thread. We're not talking about a guy in Arizona going into a diner with a holstered Colt Peacemaker, peacefully eating breakfast and drinking his cup of Joe. We're talking about group of people coming in armed with rifles, several with hands on pistol grips in three point slings in tacticool gear and looking remarkably nutty

Like they may shoot the place up.
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I am not talking about a guy going into a diner in Arizona with a holstered Colt Peacemaker either, I am talking about a few members here telling me that there is no reason for me ever to open carry. The reasons are simple, it is my legal right to do so if I choose, and as long as I do it safely and follow proper ettiquette there should be no problem.

I have stated repeatedly that I believe these people are idiots and doing harm to guns rights. BUT, the simple fact is there are some amongst the posters on this forum that see no reason EVER for anyone to open carry, no matter how they do it.
 
When I was asked by nongun folk - I reply that constitutionally I think it should be legal. However, I don't find it useful for urban life and the Chipolte-oids are not socially acceptable.

I also find those who want to open carry in safe locations for posturing not particularly impressive.

That's my view.
 
While no one here is saying that long gun OC should be illegal, nigh everyone is arguing that is should be socially unacceptable. Is that about the size of it?
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NO, that its socially unacceptable to bring a rifle into a restaurant. :mad:
 
JoeDemko,

That's a very good question. How often is "not wanting to risk confronting the stranger openly carrying a gun" mistaken by the carrier for "everybody was cool with me openly carrying a gun?"
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Golly, how often would it be? There is a ton of speculation here by those who disagree with open carry.

Frankly, as long as they stay out of my face, and I am not breaking the law, I don't care if they are cool with it or not. I am not cool with a lot of things people do everyday, but as long as they aren't breaking the law, or inconveniencing me, I don't give a damn.
 
Glenn E. Meyer

In the manner we have seen and with the correlated behaviors, it is unacceptable in a polite society.

I agree that the way those open carrying rifles into businesses are doing it is unacceptable.

Let me give another example. In San Antonio, you are legally dressed if you cover just your genitals and anus. You can cover them with a flesh covered thong.

Irrelevant and a stupid comparison. No one dies if you dress like an ass, if they did, the majority that walked into a WalMart everyday would automatically die.

It is acceptable to you, for someone to wear this and then go stand by the school bus for the little kids? It's legal.

Nope, but again, legal and acceptable aren't always even close in agreement to each other.

Now wearing this outfit, hold your EBR in the manner of the little guy in Chipolte photo and walk into a movie theater showing Frozen for the little kids. Is that acceptable for most folks on a social basis?

Around here every movie theater that I know of has the "No firearms or weapons allowed" signs so open or concealed you can't bring a firearm in there. Even though some on these forums have said they ignore those signs if carrying concealed...Is that acceptable?

Now video yourself yelling at folks who object and call them names. Hopefully, you won't video a muzzle from a concealed carrier at your last moments on Earth.

What would the justification be for shooting the guy if he hasn't pointed the EBR at anyone or threatened them?
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This is a funny place where people get shut down or told not to deal in hypotheticals and speculation and your entire post is nothing but hypotheticals and speculation.

I can legally open carry, so when I want to I will. Common sense says there are times when that will not be appropriate, like when in the Cities of Madison or Milwaukee. But truth be told, concealed carry in many places there isn't appropriate either because of signage.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

When I was asked by nongun folk - I reply that constitutionally I think it should be legal. However, I don't find it useful for urban life and the Chipolte-oids are not socially acceptable.

And the guys open carrying EBRs into a business are not me open carrying a pistol. I don't purposely draw attention to myself.

I also find those who want to open carry in safe locations for posturing not particularly impressive.

What's a safe location? I live in a village of 700 and the next village over has 1200. There are drug dealers, meth labs, home break ins, robberies, and so on occuring in this area. Both in town and in the rural. We are a half hour from Madison, and on the state highway to the Dells, and many tourist areas up north. 2 People have been murdered in the neighboring town, one by gunshot and the other stabbed. WHAT IS A SAFE LOCATION?

I have said repeatedly, and here YET AGAIN, that I disagree with what those guys are doing with their EBRs, but some of you want to lump EVERYONE open carrying into the same category. Sorry WRONG, I choose to carry a pistol at times. I do not as of yet have my concealed carry permit. When I do probably the only time I will open carry is at home on my acreage.

That's my view.
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Here's my view. There are a ton of snobs and hypocrites in the gun world that believe it is their way or the highway. It doesn't matter to them what the law says. If they don't like something they will tell you not to do it, legal or not. Yet some of those very same people will concealed carry into businesses clearly marked "No firearms or weapons." Apparently the second ammendment is just as open to interpretation amongst gun owners as it is the antis.
 
A simple example to show that the 'it's legal' mantra is to simplistic. That's the whine of some OC folks who want to posture.

BTW - you can carry in most theater in TX (until the Chipolte-oids show up).

Also, someone actually did do what I said - not a gun but wearing the thong, he would bicycle up and down our hipster market area to astound the throngs with his thong.

Being cool with it - so how does one with situational awareness in the movie theatre distinguish between an Aurora style killer and the Chipolte-oid?

Don't tell me that someone steeped in the Cooper Codes isn't tuning up a touch when seeing a Chipolte-oid?

Here's a hypothetical for you. Sorry if you don't like it. The research is fairly clear that folks and police might overreact to a person of color (African-American, Arab appearing) misinterpret common objects for firearms. So if the common gun carrier was faced with such a person doing the Chipolte walk, might it be misinterpreted. Certainly, the Black Panthers in CA weren't praised for their appearance.

I'm sorry, I see nothing useful in the OC of long arms in the manner with we have seen beyond posturing.
 
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