Model 41 stove piping

T

turtlehead

New member
It's a 2012 Performance Center with 6 2012 magazines. This gun has always had an issue with stove piping and has been back to S&W twice. Each time they replaced the extractor and said it was fine.

My question: Is it possible this may be a magazine issue? I remember back in 2012 there were a lot of complaints about the current magazine feed lips being out of whack somehow.

I've tried different spring weights, ammo, oil, etc. Just have never been able to figure this gun out. It's a shame because when it shoots, it shoots like a dream.

I figured I'd ask here before it goes back to S&W a third time. Wish I knew someone in Phoenix with an old and reliable magazine I could borrow for a weekend.

And before someone says, "It's an expensive gun, it should work every time", please don't. :rolleyes:
 
Mine is older and does well, even with recent production magazines.

I don't have The Answer but I think I would try to find a real gunsmith to troubleshoot it instead of annoying the warranty clerk yet again.
 
Is the spent case not extracting?
My 1959 vintage 41 was doing that when I bought it. Advice was to replace the extractor with one from Volquartsen. Worked like a champ. Cost about $15 and was easy to replace.

Jim
 
turtlehead said:
Jim, what is your failure rate with the VQ extractor?

I'm at 30+% right now. Very depressing.
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Last time I took it out I had 1 failure to feed out of 350 rounds. Otherwise, it has been perfect. I also give it a thorough cleaning after each range session and only use CCI standard velocity ammo in all my 22's.

Jim
 
I am TOTALLY unfamiliar with S&W Model 41s, so there may be some magic involved here that eludes me.

That said, I don't understand how the magazine can be an issue UNLESS the feed lip gap is just a bit too wide. If the gap is too wide, the next round about to be fed COULD sit a bit higher than it should, and THAT might interfere with a round being dragged back by the extractor. Then, the round being extracted could be knocked out of the extractor's grasp before it hit the ejector.

I'm pretty sure that could lead to some problems with feeding, etc., but I'm not sure it would give you a classic stovepipe jam, however.
 
So I'm not familiar with the gun but I can tell you on my Remington 597 if the guide rods are over tightened from the rear it will stove pipe all day long.

I know we're talking about a rifle vs a pistol but could anything be loosened up?
 
There could be something to the spread of the lips on the clips. But I only had one problematic one that I picked up used at a gunshow, I kind of struggle to see all of your clips having the same problem though. I bent the lips on mine inwards ever so slightly and that seems to have cured it. My '77 model cycles near 100% with 2 old and 3 newer clips.

But come to think of it, none of mine can be newer than 2010.

I wish we had a way to tell if your clips tend to seat higher or lower than normal- such as maybe an out of spec magazine catch.
 
Just to clarify: The spent case extracts fully from the chamber but is then jammed up by the next feeding round before it has a chance to clear the gun.

I know asking about the magazines seems like a stretch but I just don't see anything else wrong with the gun. The extractor holds the case as it should. Feed ramp is smooth and shiny. No excessive wear anywhere after over 2000 rounds. Only use good standard velocity ammo.

I was going to send all the mags back to S&W to test with the gun this time. I don't doubt it might just be a tuning issue that is beyond my understanding. I also wouldn't be surprised that there is a shortage of smiths experienced with this gun at S&W. They are very rarely produced and when they are only in short runs.
 
Try American Eagles?

Have you ever tried anything else then CCI Standard?

I once owned a S&W 2206 in the late 90s. In those days, if recall correctly. they had a line printed in the manual saying they recommend using American Eagles High Velocity.

I dont know what they recommend these days but the mod 41 was around long before the 2206 atleast.
 
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I read a lot about this on the S&W forum, and some poor fellows have the darndest time, with FTE issues.

I read these threads and these fellows try everything to no avail. This is why Clark makes the barrel without the rear top sight rail, to stop ejecting issues.

I can't help but wonder, being it is a real target pistol, can the chamber be a tad too tight, which may slow the shell a tad and cause this issue?

Just a guess. Why some guns are very reliable, while others not so much. Makes me wonder if the chamber fit can do it.

Some people say the "cure" is add a drop of oil on the first round, which confounds me. I would think you would NOT want oil in the chamber, but folks swear by it?

Please post your progress and good luck

Rich
 
@Walt Sherrill I will try that next time at the range.

@Glock 17 I've used CCI SV almost exclusively but have tried about ten other types of ammo including some with slightly higher velocity. All with the same problem.

@4V50 Gary Everything looks clean and sharp and normal. Is there anything I should be looking for with the ejector?

@redlightrich I feel the same way as you about the drop of oil so have never tried it. Maybe I should... Maybe a little superstition is what it needs. :D

I will certainly post my results and some pictures soonish.

Thank you, everyone. :)
 
Tbh i would demand my money back at that point........

At the same price point there are better target guns out there then a S&W 41.
Hammerli 208 / 215 or even a X-esse.
Walther GSP
 
turtlehead said:
@Walt Sherrill I will try that next time at the range.
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You may NOT have to wait until your next range trip... just chambering a live round manually with a full mag in the gun and then racking the slide MIGHT show a problem. (Just keep your finger away from the trigger!)

If you've got a spent casing (which you'd have at the range), that would likely be a better indicator of a problem, as it that spent casing would be more easily bumped loose than a unfired round (which has more weight).

redlightrich said:
I can't help but wonder, being it is a real target pistol, can the chamber be a tad too tight, which may slow the shell a tad and cause this issue?
Click to expand...

Even if a tight chamber slows things down, the other part of the cycle (the round being stripped from the mag and chambered isn't going to happen until the slide has moved all the way to the rear and the next round is being picked up.

For some reason, the round being extracted is being knocked loose from the extractor and it's getting in the way when the next round is being fed.
 
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