Microstamping passes Kalifornia senate...

All a criminal has to do is get a normal gun in another state, or have it sent to them by means of smuggling. This is just idiotic.:barf:

As has been stated, it's nothing more than a backdoor ban by these clueless fools.
 
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Invent something, get the government to mandate said invention through legislation, then watch the profits roll in. What a deal!

"NanoVia has agreed to assist the State of California in writing its state ballistic identification legislation."

http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/nan/nan108.html

A little more info:

A concept referred to as "Ballistic Tagging", however, may be used to mark cartridges or bullets or both with specially encoded geometric shapes, holograms, alphanumeric codes, barcodes and other specific coding techniques which are not random and are which are completely repeatable and which are unique to each firearm. Such methods would in addition be more reliable and less expensive and time consuming by not requiring the costly apparatus, imperfect imaging algorithms, non-uniform lighting, non-standardized procedures and cross jurisdictional data bases used to store "Ballistic Finger Prints" or "Scratch and Ding" Images.

There are currently available a variety of systems for forming or micro-engraving images, shapes or symbols in or on an exterior surface of an object, such as a firing pin or the interior of the chamber or barrel of a firearm, such that, an image, shape of symbol is embossed or otherwise marked on a surface of a cartridge by the normal operation of the firearm, such as firing of a cartridge or the loading or ejection of a cartridge. Such images, shapes or symbols, hereafter referred to generally as "images, may take any graphic form, including abstract symbols or brands, letters or numbers, and so on, and are typically formed of raised areas of a surface or of surface indentations, such as holes, vias, blind vias or some other form of surface indentation, or any combination thereof.

http://www.linkgrinder.com/Patents/Method_and_appa_6833911.html
 
Rich, I believe Meek was making a prediction of the future, not what exists now...

Seems to me any "micro" etching would either have to be of sufficient size to cause functionality problems in a (semiauto) firearm or else it would simply wear away too quickly to be of any use(not that it will be of any use anyway...). In other words, it could not be etched into a chamber. Brass just is not going to flow consistently enough and deposits would obscure such etching quickly anyway. So, it's going to have to be raised. How could that be done? How could it NOT cause problems in chambering?

Hmmm, cut a section out within the chamber, leaving the code behind at the height of the surrounding wall? How the hell could that be accomplished within a mass-production enviroment?
 
Great!! Most decent people have to jump through 10 million hoops and sign their lives away just to get a small business loan. If you have money and perpetuate this kind of looniness, you can get LEGISLATION passed.:(

badbob
 
What they do there really isn't that much of a concern to me. I'm not going there, and if they want to continue with this sort of idiocy that's their business. There is one thing that does really chap me about it, though:

If they go and mandate that sort of thing for Commiefornia, adding an extra anti- price burden to the guns nominally to be sold there, won't that necessarily mean that the manufacturers would then have to modify their production processes in order to comply with this idiocy? I assume that there won't be any specially made Commiefornia handguns seperate and apart from what are manufacturered for Free America -- what I suspect will happen is what has happened in the past: The least common denominator -- the manufacturers will just change their production lines to include those modifications for all handguns made. Meaning, EVERYBODY, not just on the Left Coast but here in Free America as well, will end up having to pay that BS Leftist anti- markup, and we didn't even get a say-so in it.

I say to the manufacturers: Do what Barrett did. Stand on principle. DO NOT SELL ANY GUNS OR GUN PARTS AT ALL TO ANY COMMIEFORNIA GOVERNMENT AGENCY OR CONTRACTOR TO SUCH. PERIOD. They are wanting to put the screws to the gun industry and by extension to the gun buying public in general -- and not just in their own jurisdiction. This has got to stop, right now.
 
NanoVia, (ID Dynamics now owns the technology)...

"The company’s expertise is simple enough: drilling extremely small holes into extremely small objects. Using a patented technology that employs the same type of optics used to make holograms, NanoVia fires powerful lasers at microstructures to sculpt them into carefully aligned vias or other shapes.

Ruger's take on it..

Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc indicates that:

By way of a concrete example [of logistical
concerns] the slide assemblies (which necessarily
would contain the microscopic array) for our
centerfire pistols are manufactured on one line
and the frames (which are serialized in accordance
with BATFE regulations) are manufactured on a
separate line. Eventually, these two assemblies
are married to produce a functioning firearm.
Under AB 352, we would somehow have to track these
two assemblies and mate them with each other,
which is totally unworkable under our current
manufacturing processes. We would somehow have to
find a way to reconstruct our entire manufacturing
lines to account for this requirement. This, of
course, does not address issues raised by pistols
that are reworked during the manufacturing
process, pistols that are returned for service and
must have parts replaced, etc. Suffice it to say
that we could provide many examples of how the
implementation of this untested and highly
questionable technology would impose an enormous
financial and logistical burden on manufacturers.
Such a burden, of course, necessarily would be
passed along to law-abiding citizens in the form o
increased prices.
"

OK - so it WILL be expensive. How big is the CA market share? Is it worth it for manu. to bother anymore? Will those that do be targeted by non-CA residents like S&W was with the safety locks? Will LE really be exempt?...BIG question I think - besides the HUGE hassle of recovering ALL brass - it also gives LE officers a BIG advantage over potential legal gun-owning civilians, as their guns, like the criminal's are more...immune to tracing.

This would be a HUGE win for the antis, and could be - SHOULD be - a HUGE wakeup for gun owners.
 
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Rich, it appears they are referring to laser microetching. I'm more familiar with larger etching using a ferric salt on silver or pewter. One might presume that laser microetching uses a photographically prepared template or a tiny CNC apparatus to focus. Jewelers already used pretty sophisticated CNC for custom designs. It is only a tiny jump from a wedding ring win an engraved poem inside to a firing pin with your serial number on it. (My point however is that it is an even tinier jump to a firing pin which has the serial number of the pistol carried by a thug's favorite Democratic politician.)

But I did find a link which lists companies who can do laser etching.
http://www.iqsdirectory.com/laser-cutting/

Here is a link to a brief news blurb about laser etching messages on the girdles of diamonds. This off-the-shelf technology is already in commercial production. http://jewelry.about.com/cs/diamonds/a/laser_inscript.htm

My conjecture is that as soon as this law is implemented you will see a black market industry emerge which will use off-the-shelf microetching techniques to fake the marks so that thugs will be carrying guns with fake microetching. I also suspect that the consumer cost will be much higher than the actual cost. All they would have to do is steal a dental laser or jeweler's laser and they'd be in business cloning ID marks.

This is yet another example of stupid gun laws which make it harder for honest people and easier for thugs. Reading some of the posts which mention 'proprietary technology' I'm starting to wonder if this might not be a pork barrel project and if so could the question be opened regarding kickback and bribes to public officials who support the law?
 
One question on the feasability of this:

Assuming that the microetching is truly micro in nature -- really small and shallow in other words, so as to minimize effect on the functioning of the gun -- what is to keep it from wearing off or being obscured in a hurry? Be it in the chamber, or on the firing pin, or wherever, it seems to me that such a micro-imprint would be destroyed by the normal act of firing the gun in no-time flat, just from wear. And, it seems to me that such an imprint would be easy to mask, obscure or disguise, even from something as mundane as the fouling that would occur just from firing the gun a few times. After all, it is MICRO etched -- really small, really shallow. And what is to prevent a little bit of creative filling and/or filing to make it unreadable?

Sounds to me like a huge boondoggle -- completely worthless and yet prohibitively expensive.
 
I say to the manufacturers: Do what Barrett did. Stand on principle. DO NOT SELL ANY GUNS OR GUN PARTS AT ALL TO ANY COMMIEFORNIA GOVERNMENT AGENCY OR CONTRACTOR TO SUCH. PERIOD. They are wanting to put the screws to the gun industry and by extension to the gun buying public in general -- and not just in their own jurisdiction. This has got to stop, right now.
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Lets hope and pray that they have the courage to stand up to this idiotic legislation.
 
Just read a bunch of info on this - alot by the guy Lizotte, who invented it (and who now owns ID Dynamics)...Supposedly on the firing pin, which is "nearly as hard as a diamond", can't be easily sanded off, invisible to the naked eye, etc. Say "criminals sprinkling the crime scene with 'fake' shells" s silly - they don't do it now", .25 to .50 cents royalty per gun (but how much for the gun companies and buyers?).

Seems swapping the firing pin would be simple - but THAT would be come illegal if it held the make model & serial number.



http://www.answers.com/topic/firearm-microstamping

and

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld...94934.htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_politics

California could become the first state in the nation to require semi-automatic handguns include microscopic equipment for pressing an identifying mark into every bullet fired.

Through newly developed technology, the firing pin of a semi-automatic weapon can stamp the gun's make and model onto a bullet shell as it leaves the chamber. The technology could help police investigate homicides and trace gun trafficking.

Thirty-three California police chiefs and two county sheriffs support a bill, sponsored by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, that would require the markers.

"It has the potential to solve some significant crimes in some pretty large numbers," Koretz said in a telephone interview.

Officers could quickly match the casing numbers to weapons on a state gun sales database maintained by the California Department of Justice.

It's the second go-round for the bill, which passed the Assembly easily last year but was defeated in the Senate. This year, the votes are there, Koretz said.

...

Sam Paredes, director of the 30,000-member California Gun Owners Association, said proponents of the bill are engaging in "a lot of wishful thinking" if they believe mandating the technology will turn that around.

"All it takes is a few swipes (on the pin) with a sandpaper or nail file, and (the marker) is gone," he said.

He called the technology "laughable," saying trigger-happy criminals could outwit police investigators by picking up spent shells at a shooting range and sprinkling them at a crime scene.

That drew a big laugh from Todd Lizotte, who developed the technology for use in laser printers while he was vice president of NanoVia, a semiconductor and microelectronic equipment manufacturer bought by Hitachi in 2003.

There's nothing stopping perpetrators of gun violence from doing that now, he said.

"The truth is, nobody ever does that," he said. "When people talk about these issues, they tend to raise the common criminal up to the level of criminal mastermind and the police down to the level of (cartoon character) Wile E. Coyote."
The pin is nearly as hard as a diamond, he said. In addition, the markers on the pin are invisible to the naked eye.

The technology expands on the incidental markings that already appear on cartridge casings, Lizotte said. "Instead of relying on randomly created marks, we're placing an identifier specific to that firearm."

Hitachi acquired NanoVia, but not its ballistic imaging component. That went to ID Dynamics, a holding company founded by Lizotte and his partners.

An Assembly revote is being held up while Koretz and Assemblyman Jay La Suer, R-San Diego, the bill's chief critic, agree on a date for a demonstration.

"I told him if they're able to file (the pin) down, I'll halt the bill," Koretz said. "My understanding of the technology is that it's pretty foolproof."
 
"It has the potential to solve some significant crimes in some pretty large numbers," Koretz said in a telephone interview.
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Yah right.:barf: Im really hoping for the big one in Kalifornia.Maybe that will make the legislature think about important issues.
That drew a big laugh from Todd Lizotte, who developed the technology for use in laser printers while he was vice president of NanoVia, a semiconductor and microelectronic equipment manufacturer bought by Hitachi in 2003.
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This man is no friend of ours.:mad:
 
Although: could it be done by putting a micro-etching in the barrel of an automatic or the chambers of a revolver cylinder? The cartridge would expand on firing, taking the unique design of the chamber into itself, then get ejected. No moving parts. Yet still defeated by a dremel.
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If the case expands enough to be imprinted by a non-smooth part of the chamber, isn't that a recipe for jamming?
 
Wouldn't you love to go to the senate barbershop to get multiple DNA samples to scatter around a crime scene? Or pick range brass at the PD shooting range or...:D

badbob
 
The pin is nearly as hard as a diamond, he said.
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WHich demonstrates that this guy is a Class A Number One clown, who is either willfully distorting the truth or is completely ignorant.

There are NO metals that are anywhere near as hard as diamond (hardness = 10). None. The closest you are going to get is the oxide coating that forms on aluminium (hardness = 9, about 1/4 as hard as diamond), which is itself not really suitable for reliable use on firing pins, IMHO. Hardened steels max out somewhere in the upper 7's, any decent commercial abrasive will do the trick on them just fine.

Unless he means putting a fine coating of aluminium on the parts to be etched, and then micro-etching that, then he's blowing smoke. Even then, it can be defeated prettty easily by filling.

Hitachi acquired NanoVia, but not its ballistic imaging component. That went to ID Dynamics, a holding company founded by Lizotte and his partners.
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This alone should be cause for red flagging this thing. If Hitachi (who knows technology) did not pick up the ballistic imaging component of NanoVia, shouldn't that be an indicator of it's viability? Not wanting to sound like a conspiracy type, but could it be that Hitachi knows the real truth here? Why didn't Hitachi jump on it if it is so good? Since it is now held by that holding company, it stands to reason that no other technology company picked it up, either. I wonder why that is? It sounds to me like Lizotte and company are trying to resurrect a questionable technology by BS'ing the gullible.
 
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But it's for the children guys. Won't somebody *please* think of the children!?!

I agree - we need to start letter-writing to gun companies (if this becomes law), saying that they should stop all sales to california, most importantly to LEOAs, and if they do, we'll buy their guns, and if they don't, we'll buy their competitors' guns.
 
The obvious solution is simply to ban sandpaper, dremels, files, nail files, and everything else that is rough.

Although, the markings would probably just wear off after a couple thousand rounds.
 
I read this thread, thinking ot was originally a joke. This has to be the dumbest thing in history since Olaf the hairy, high chief of the vikings, ordered ten thousand helmets with horns on the inside.
 
I too believe that this has to got to be the second dumbest thing i have ever heard of for gun control. I grew up in Mass, which as you all know is notoriously anti-gun. About 3 months ago a politician in this ultra liberal state wanted to pass legislation that would require a GPS tracking device in the handle of the gun. Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment....it's all up for grabs.

one question about this technology. If they put it in the chamber of the barrel, the numbers would probably have to be raised right. When the cartridge expands and the gun extracts and chambers a new round, wouldn't the raised numbers actually damage the mark it had just left on the casing?
 
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