Microstamping passes Kalifornia senate...

T

Te Anau

New member
Fools!!!
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200608/NAT20060825a.html
:mad: :mad: :mad:
The bill (AB 352) would "expand the definition of unsafe handgun to include semiautomatic pistols that are not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters, that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and which are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired."
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I would find a way around that,filing if necessary.
 
"The bulls**t piles up so fast around here you need wings to stay above it."
---Martin Sheen, Apocalypse Now

Does it ever end?
 
So every new handgun in CA will cost an additional $200 to pay for this.

This device obviously wouldn't be put on the firing pin or extractor claw, since they can be replaced easily by aftermarket parts.

It would be yet another moving part in the gun to break.

Although: could it be done by putting a micro-etching in the barrel of an automatic or the chambers of a revolver cylinder? The cartridge would expand on firing, taking the unique design of the chamber into itself, then get ejected. No moving parts. Yet still defeated by a dremel.

If I were Glock/Beretta/S&W/et al, I would not sell another gun to CA.
 
It will also entice criminals to change to revolvers.

This leaves no brass behind as physical evidence, and gives criminals more powerful weapons. I'd much rather suffer a driveby in my neighborhood with a mag of cheap WWB 9mm than 6 rounds of 44mag tearing through 4-5 walls.

Magnum revolvers are more likely to penetrate soft body armor than lower velocity, lower energy semiautomatic counterparts.
 
"If I were Glock/Beretta/S&W/et al, I would not sell another gun to CA."

Then the Brady Bunch wins. Defeat the legislation. Hopefully common sense will prevail, even in Kali.

babbob
 
If I were Glock/Beretta/S&W/et al, I would not sell another gun to CA.
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They need to stop selling to or repairing for government agencies.That .50cal company did it and it really ticked em off.
 
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OK, so what "internal parts" would be etched? Barrels? Slides?

I can forsee a huge black market of "internal parts" which conveniently hold the make, model and SN of guns owned by prominent politicians, LEOs and the military.

Imagine the scene when Da Governator gets a knock on his door some dark 2 AM, the JBTs wait ten seconds then when there is no immediate answer they batter in the door to enter on a search and seize mission...
 
Would someone PLEASE explain how an etched part will imprint an ID on the brass ??? I'm an engineer I want to know !!!:rolleyes:
 
That .50cal company did it and it really ticked em off.
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That would be Barrett, I think.

Would someone PLEASE explain how an etched part will imprint an ID on the brass ??? I'm an engineer I want to know !!!
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Me too.

And I don't see how picking up range brass would combat this. :confused:
 
The answer is simple:
The technology is simply too expensive. This is a back door way of assuring no further sales of firearms in California. In short, it's a Ban.

Want proof? Find out if LEO Agencies will be exempted....of course they will. They need to purchase working firearms.
Rich
 
Not sure if this is how it is done, but ...

It seems to me some type of engraving in the chamber could imprint the brass when the cartridge is fired and expands into said engraving. Would work on any action since all firearms have a chamber.

Perhaps it could be hard to defeat this because to do so would require reaming the chamber which could cause unsafe conditions to fire the gun.

Like I said, not sure, just guessing.
 
The technology is simply too expensive.
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I don't know about that Rich. Jewelers use a photographic process to acid etch complex designs into metal for just a few cents apiece. Once this cluster-intimacy is implemented you're probably going to see a lot of thugs buying or making aftermarket barrels which are etched with information designed to throw off the police. Although I don't gloat on other's misfortune I could see a certain poetic justice in gangland killings pinned on wealthy politicians, actors and the like.

http://www.iqsdirectory.com/metal-etching/
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=83123
 
There seem to be some discrepencies:

"Lizotte has created to laser etch a guns serial number onto the face of the firing pin. Each time the gun is fired, the number is stamped into the primer as it is ignited."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2_46/ai_58446506

"Stamping bullets, however, may not provide an instant solution to matching crimes -- like the Washington-area sniper shootings -- with culprits, said Todd Lizotte, vice president of research and development at NanoVia, where the new device is being developed.

...The system works by making use of the pressure and heat that build up when a weapon is fired, causing the cartridge to expand into the wall of the gun barrel.

'What we did was put a plug in the breech of the gun that has very small raised letters on it, so that when the expansion occurs the cartridge is self-embossed with these characters,' Lizotte said.

...'You don't have direct access to it with a file. In order to be able to get to it and file it off, you'd have to ruin the gun,' Lizotte said."

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,55947-0.html
 
In order to be able to get to it and file it off, you'd have to ruin the gun,' Lizotte said."
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I doubt that.

It does however introduce the point that every chamber already has a fingerprint as it stands now. and that any effort to simply obscure a serial number imprint would simply alter the existing overall chamber signature. If brass is recovered from a crime scene and a weapon is thought to be involved, a fired piece of brass from the same gun would show some of that chamber's signature, assuming the chamber had not been altered.

But that requires a weapon be found and tested and does not give a signature on the brass that can be traced to a name and address.

Next some one will propose serial numbers imprinted on vehicle tire tread to identify who skidded here.
 
Bud, it's not much of a "fingerprint:" in those states which maintain a database of fired brass and bullets, it's never solved a single crime. If both the gun and bullets and/or fired brass are in the hands of investigators, it is usually possible to establish if the gun fired the rounds in question -- but not always.

"Microstamping" fired brass isn't all that easy, as the brass has to be sufficiently ductile to take the impression but not so soft that the mark is easily lost or distorted afterwards. I don't know if the firing pin trick would work well enough satisify the CA law, but even if it does, it won't keep bad guys from getting the same kind of used, underground-economy guns they've been using all along. Nor will it slow down the clever fiend who knows how to swap out a firing pin. It's hardly rocket science, especially in any gun using the retention method found in the 1911. Might even be able to file off the marks without making the pin too short to work.

Or, hey, the bad guys could just get a revolver. They're not included in the microstamping requirement! Funny, both times I was held up at gunpoint, the malefactor(s) used revolvers.

Other methods seem to be implied in the excepts posted by Redhawk. A stamp set into the breech face runs up against the same limits as the firing pin version and while maybe one couldn't file it away, the Dremel is a well-known tool for removing unwanted excresences in tight corners.

The same quotes also have the genius behind this marvelous development speaking of "stamping bullets," presumeably as the gun is fired. Since he couldn't possibly be the sort of moron who doesn't know the difference between "cartridge" and "bullet," he must be speaking of some simply astonishingly super-duper technology that will fit in the barrel of a handgun, mark a movin' bullet, and never, ever suffer catastrophic failure. They do get the Sci-Fi Channel in CA, don't they?

As Rich says, it amounts to a ban on any new semiautomatic guns in California. And probably a ban on any of the ones already there changing hands in a legal manner. Did The Governator pass up a chance to veto this already? If not, let's hope for a lucky coin-toss and that he ignores anything his spouse has to say about it.
 
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