Mexican government on how to sneak across our border

If they were born here, they ARE by law, American citizens. So then you support the idea that arbitrary and capricious denials of due process to American citizens, as well as the administration of ex post facto laws are perfectly acceptable? Gee, I wonder wht the Founding Fathers would think of that?

I'm aware of the fact that they are unfortunately American citizens. I don't need another mindless drone repeating to me what I have not contested. However, if you were so perceptive as to look at the thread topic, you'd be aware that we are not talking about citizens here.

So now that you've called him a liar with respect to his heritage, why don't you post some proof of your assertion.

DO Irish-Americans come on a gun forum, post on threads that for the most part have to do with immigration, spew nonsense that mirrors exactly the ideology of leftist Hispanic organizations, and put so much time and energy specifically attacking me over every little thing that pertains to Hispanics living in this country?


And who has the first?

Is that supposed mean that Japan is somehow "irrevelant"?

But if those Hispanics are legal US citizens, then they have as much right to decide what Americans should model themselves after as YOU...QUOTE]

Which is something that will become more and more of a problem as thier numbers increase. And I'm aware that the current Republican successes indicate that Americans do not want Hispanics or Asians deciding anything for them.

Speak for yourself. You and your inane ideas are not the arbiters of what the US wants or needs. Nevertheless, as Lord Nikon pointed out, we DOin fact need a segment of these people in our society. I know numerous American businesses that rely heavily on cheap immigrant labor to stay in business and remain profitable. In fact, with regard to most of the illegal immigrants in the US, they are performing menial labor for below minimum wage. Not really a threat to our citizens...unless you are one of those poor folks who can't even land a job at McDonalds (so are you?)

There are plenty of poor people living in this country who have grown complacent because of welfare and union benefits. What makes you think Mexicans aren't going to make the same decision now that their power is growing? Do you even know what Bush is proposing with regards to this?

Yes, I'm sure thats why the Japanese have soldiers in Iraq.

And what does Iraq have that Japan needs, Shaggy?

Personally, I don't think I've noticed any grammatical errors by ShootinStudent. Maybe you'd like to point them out so we can be sure you're not the liar you accuse him of being?

Then maybe you should start reading his posts.

Of course they do. Like every race or nationality than comes to America, they bring a little of their own culture; which is part of what makes America strong. But to insinuate that all Hispanics bring to this country is crime and deterioration is simply assinine.

Shaggy, how does their backward culture make this country strong, rather than bring down from the esteemed foundations on which it was built? If Hispanics want to have thier culture and language, they can go back home.
 
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By posting the image of Hitler, I was pointing out your false sense of superiority over other races.

I did not assert the superiority of race, but the superiority of culture. Pay attention before you repeat such ignorant and foolish acts.

I figured maybe you would understand an argument on your own level.

Well perhaps you might've figured to provide me with one, rather than an argument of your level.

And if you would bother to read the article, you would understand what I mean by uses of poverty.

I did "bother" to read such a baseless article, which you have in no way proved anything with it.

The author is clearly asserting that "poverty" is intentional, if you didn't comprehend that through the rehashed class diatribe of these pseudo-intellectuals.

And by arguing for increased illegal immigration, you probably only advance my position with your little "poverty " thesis. The fact is that what appears to be "cheap labor" is simply subsidized by the taxpayers of America, and the taxes these laborers do pay inevitably wind up in the same pesthole from where they spawned.
 
Black_Iron said:
DO Irish-Americans come on a gun forum, post on threads that for the most part have to do with immigration, spew nonsense that mirrors exactly the ideology of leftist Hispanic organizations, and put so much time and energy specifically attacking me over every little thing that pertains to Hispanics living in this country?

Running your spew through a little decoding (spew nonsense that mirrors exactly the ideology of leftist Hispanic organizations, etc.) my answer to the first two parts of your question, as well as the nearest equivlent I can think of for the rest, is...

Yes.
 
Black_Iron said:
Lord_Nikon said:
I figured maybe you would understand an argument on your own level.

Well perhaps you might've figured to provide me with one, rather than an argument of your level.

Black_Iron said:
Lord Nikon

If you believe the tripe of "sociologists" and other psuedoscience practitioners, then you clearly have no sense whatsoever.

I rest my case regarding that.

Black_Iron said:
I did not assert the superiority of race, but the superiority of culture. Pay attention before you repeat such ignorant and foolish acts.
Forgive me, but based on your continual bashing of not just Hispanic culture, but anything Hispanic, I took that as your asserting racial superiority. I don't think I was too far off the mark.

Black_Iron said:
I did "bother" to read such a baseless article, which you have in no way proved anything with it.

The author is clearly asserting that "poverty" is intentional, if you didn't comprehend that through the rehashed class diatribe of these pseudo-intellectuals.

Nowhere in that artical did Gans state that poverty is intentional. Try again.
 
I'm aware of the fact that they are unfortunately American citizens. I don't need another mindless drone repeating to me what I have not contested. However, if you were so perceptive as to look at the thread topic, you'd be aware that we are not talking about citizens here.

And yet more civility from BI.

In case you didn't bother to read your own post, YOU were the one advocating recission of citizenship for Americans descended from illegal aliens. You were indeed referring to US citizens when you said...

Another thing is that these millions of hispanics are descended for the most part from illegals, and they don't belong here. Their citizenship should be revoked.

If they are not citizens, I'd like you to explain why not. According to US law, they most certainly ARE.

DO Irish-Americans come on a gun forum, post on threads that for the most part have to do with immigration, spew nonsense that mirrors exactly the ideology of leftist Hispanic organizations, and put so much time and energy specifically attacking me over every little thing that pertains to Hispanics living in this country?

Why not. You have an Italian American here doing so. Besides your flawed logic is not evidence of ShootinStudent's heritage. Nice try at dodging the issue though...


And who has the first?

Is that supposed mean that Japan is somehow "irrevelant"?

Dodging the issue yet again, huh? Why don't you just answer the question instead of continually dodging the ones you don't like? You opened the door with your statement about Japan being the 2nd largest economy on the Earth. What I want to know from you is who has the largest economy on the Earth?

There are plenty of poor people living in this country who have grown complacent because of welfare and union benefits. What makes you think Mexicans are going to make the same decision now that their power is growing?

I'm sorry, but I can't follow your disjointed thought process on this one. Mexicans are going to make what decision? To grow complacent and on welfare? Or to get educated and become skilled labor?
 
Lord_Nikon

You can continue to pass on your stubborn ignorance as anything but.

Where is the qualifications of this man to speak on what is economics?

Nowhere in that artical did Gans state that poverty is intentional. Try again

First, the existence of poverty ensures that society's "dirty work" will be done.

Indeed, this function of the poor is so important that in some Southern states, welfare payments have been cut off during the summer months when the poor are needed to work in the fields. Moreover, much of the debate about the Negative Income Tax and the Family Assistance Plan [welfare programs] has concerned their impact on the work incentive, by which is actually meant the incentive of the poor to do the needed dirty work if the wages therefrom are no larger than the income grant.

Many economic activities that involve dirty work depend on the poor for their existence: restaurants, hospitals, parts of the garment industry, and "truck farming," among others, could not persist in their present form without the poor.

So without illegals, you're implicitly asserting that hospitals cannot maintain their standards? (Which is the reason why you bothered to copy it in the first place, I might add)
 
Sorry, hit the wrong key. Allow me to continue...

And what does Iraq have that Japan needs, Shaggy?

Oil of course, but they small presence in Iraq is not going to secure it for them. It does help us though, and puts less American lives in danger.

Personally, I don't think I've noticed any grammatical errors by ShootinStudent. Maybe you'd like to point them out so we can be sure you're not the liar you accuse him of being?

Then maybe you should start reading his posts.

Yet again with dodging the question. Just answer the question...if you can.

Shaggy, how does their backward culture make this country strong, rather than bring down from the esteemed foundations on which it was built? If Hispanics want to have thier culture and language, they can go back home.

Now are you talking about legal US citizens of Hispanic origin, or illegal aliens?
 
And who has the first?

Is that supposed mean that Japan is somehow "irrevelant"?

Dodging the issue yet again, huh? Why don't you just answer the question instead of continually dodging the ones you don't like? You opened the door with your statement about Japan being the 2nd largest economy on the Earth. What I want to know from you is who has the largest economy on the Earth?

Shaggy, I'm probably not going to bother responding to any more of your obtuse comments.

Just for your information, before you blindly tramped in here, the issue was whether Japan is or is not irrevelant.

So, I don't understand what you're trying to refute here.

Yes the US is the largest. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

Do you even think before you post?

You have an Italian American here doing so.

While equal in ignorance, you have not conducted yourself in the same way that our hispanic friend has been doing, because he is hispanic and you are not.

BTW, I'm not to thrilled about Italians either, but I do find it very amusing that you actually vote Republican for some oddball reason.
 
Now are you talking about legal US citizens of Hispanic origin, or illegal aliens?

What is this thread about? So you really don't even know what you're blathering against?

Typical of a (according to your profile) NYC attorney. In fact, you give me an unpleasant reminder of that city's Italian mayor.
 
..your obtuse comments.

While equal in ignorance...

Do you even think before you post?

Well, I love you too Black Iron. :D


Yes the US is the largest. So what? What does that have to do with anything?

You implied that Japan had the largest economy largely because of the fact its a fairly closed society. Might the fact that America has a larger economy have anything to do with our diversity?

No, I'm sure it doesn't in your view, but I want to see what sort of twisted logic you'll come up with to explain it.

Shaggy, I'm probably not going to bother responding to any more of your obtuse comments.

Hey fine with me. I'll still be here... :D
 
What is this thread about? So you really don't even know what you're blathering against?

Typical of a (according to your profile) NYC attorney. In fact, you give me an unpleasant reminder of that city's Italian mayor.


So now I'm blathering... :rolleyes:

I asked you a question because you apparently couldn't write it in a coherent sentence. I know what I'm talking about but you dodge the question so much I'm not sure you know what you're talking about here. Answer my question.
 
Well, I love you too Black Iron

Good, as long as you keep your level of obtuseness to tolerable minimum.

You implied that Japan had the largest economy largely because of the fact its a fairly closed society. Might the fact that America has a larger economy have anything to do with our diversity?

Here's the answer:

No, I'm sure it doesn't

So even you know how stupid that sounds.

And let me add to that: it has nothing to do with Hispanics either. The reason they flood here in the first place is because of the economy.

in your view, but I want to see what sort of twisted logic you'll come up with to explain it.

I don't need to "explain" an unfounded assertion on your part because it's a non-issue. Comparing an enormous country like the U.S., with tons of resources, and a nation of very little resources such as Japan tells you how far Japan has went. Not only that, but they are in a much stronger position vis-a-vis American industries like steel, cars, and electronics, and Japan's size, while huge, is built upon nothing else than sheer dominance.

Japan doesn't have economic parasites sucking its blood out.
 
The illogic of your replies to my contentions are clearly astounding, verifying the fact that intellectually you are nothing more than a parrot on a broken record.

Haha, so not only did you fail to explain how you know what Mexico and South America are like without ever having been, but you also insulted me. I like it. I welcome insults, because they're a sign that you are frustrated and have nothing of substance to say. And apparently everyone else can see that too.

If you are going to make these claims, then let's see some documentation.

Why are you asking for documentation if you already claim to have proof for your assertions? Oh, that's right, you don't. There's plenty of proof out there. The mission system mapped and brought irrigation to the entire southwest and west, and without that the Americans would've had an extreme task in occupying and building it up.

Your contention that the founding fathers somehow "envisioned" a future for hispanics is completely absurd. Please retake your history, or infact, look at your own date: 1840. Where were the founding fathers at that time?

I consider the men who more than doubled the size of the United States to be founding fathers. The very same men who extended US authority all the way to the Pacific, are the very same men who granted US citizenship to all Mexicans living in the territory that was formerly controlled by Mexico. Does that sound like exclusionary policy to you? And have you done something equally great, such that you can look down on what those men in the 1840's accomplished and say "they were all idiots"?


The fact that you consider Moorish influenced Spain and France to be similar speaks for your ignorance. Spanish is a language with Latin and Arabic roots. I know Spanish, I've studied for it three years.

Yeah, I've studied Spanish too. Go ahead and point out to me the Arabic grammatical structures. Can you do that? Nope, you can't, because they don't exist. The people of Al Andalus spoke Arabic; the Spanish who took Spain back from the Muslims were from the North, ie RIGHT NEAR FRANCE, which is why Spanish and French have so many similiarities, on top of the fact that both are descended from Latin. I can think of only one word that is related to Arabic in Spanish. That's hardly "arabic roots."

But I'll wait for your proof, if you can dream some up.


Just exactly what did Mexico contribute to Western Civilization? Where are it's philosophers, mathematicians, and scientists? It's one pile of bull after another. I'm sure any superior culture would have an influence on primitive Mexico.

Again, because you don't know anything about Hispanic cultures, you don't see any influence. But you also know you haven't studied any of this material at all, don't you? Should it surprise you then that you don't know what kinds of things came from the Spanish world?

Let me make a list: The first novel: Spain. Don Quixote.
Artists: Diego Rivera and Frida Khalo
Philosophers: Octavio Paz.
Military: Hernan Cortez...conquered a powerful, warrior society of millions of people with a small, underfed band of 500 or so men.

And there's more. But you don't know about any of that, because you substitute your own assumptions about race and culture for actual investigation.

If you think crime is a "Western European problem" you know nothing of either Western Europe (the crime is an immigrant phenomenon) or Mexico, which is just as crime riddled and corrupt as any Third World nation.

Western Europe was a disaster area in terms of crime, again, until the 20th century. You'd know that if you'd studied European history, but you seem to have missed that too. Now it's pretty safe. Oddly, the 20th century is when most of the immigration really skyrocketed into Europe. Odd, don't you think? How do you explain that?

Why you continue to invoke the Founding Fathers in such an erroneous manner is beyond me.

I notice that your quote from the constitution is missing. That's because it doesn't have any of the ideas you've presented. Show me where the word "race" is mentioned in the Constitution as a permissible grounds for denying citizenship or privileges. Oh, that's right, it says the opposite: That no person may be denied any of the privileges and immunities due American citizens based on race.

To adopt Spanish in the face of all the other ethnic groups is favoritism and an acknowledgment that they are somehow more welcome than any other group, which is false.

Please show me where I said anyone should "adopt" spanish. I'd like to see this. What I remember saying is that there's nothing wrong with the language. Sure, language is a carrier of culture...see above. There's nothing wrong with Spanish culture any more than any other. You just think that because, as I'll repeat, you have not studied the issue.

Preferential treatment in immigration, which is fueled by people like you, unless you are completely blind to your own prejudice while you harp on about only the "prejudice" that puts hispanics at a disadvantage.

If you want to post about why you think the US should expel all blacks and asians too, I'll harp on that also for you. Gladly.


Btw, it's hilarious that you keep calling me a liar about my heritage. IMO, it demonstrates how narrow your worldview is. If you can't even conceive of a "fellow white person" holding my views, you my friend have got to get out more. Schools are actually integrated now, and it's legal to sit in the same train cars as other races.
 
Don't worry Lord_Nikon, most of us with an ounce of common sense understood the analogy. Good point, BTW.

I agree. I think the gun owners cause will do much better if we have more people like shaggy and Lord_Nikon representing the typical gun owner, as opposed to...I'm not naming any names.
 
Typical of you shootinstudent. Respond to whatever you please, regardless of whether it has anything to do with the discussion, whether or not I said it, etc.

Please answer my question on English and Arabic.

I consider the men who more than doubled the size of the United States to be founding fathers.

Wrong. The Founding Fathers were the men who founded this nation in 1776. They were the ones who penned your holy Constitution.

Yeah, I've studied Spanish too. Go ahead and point out to me the Arabic grammatical structures.

Virtually any Spanish word that begins with 'a' has been influenced by Arabic.

Spanish and French have so many similiarities

Only as far as their Latin roots go.

Let me make a list: The first novel: Spain. Don Quixote.
Artists: Diego Rivera and Frida Khalo
Philosophers: Octavio Paz.
Military: Hernan Cortez...conquered a powerful, warrior society of millions of people with a small, underfed band of 500 or so men.

Compared with the engineering and mathematical advancements of the west, we have a man who wrote an irrelevant novel, a few barely recognized artists outside of the multicultural agenda, and a man who spread disease to the New World.

Western Europe was a disaster area in terms of crime, again, until the 20th century.

So who'd qualify as a "disaster area" today in those same terms? Why, the Third World.

Oh, that's right, it says the opposite: That no person may be denied any of the privileges and immunities due American citizens based on race.

Was that Amendment a part of the original constitution?

Please show me where I said anyone should "adopt" spanish.

Ok, so now you support an English-only policy?

If you want to post about why you think the US should expel all blacks and asians too, I'll harp on that also for you. Gladly.

They belong in Africa and Asia.

If you can't even conceive of a "fellow white person" holding my views, you my friend have got to get out more. Schools are actually integrated now, and it's legal to sit in the same train cars as other races.

You are no "fellow white person" of mine.

I'm well aware of what happened to public education since that time. Might as well let any kind of animal enter school grounds.

Other races don't belong in this country. They belong in their countries.
 
Other races don't belong in this country. They belong in their countries.

Well, there you said it black iron. No one but whites in America, despite the fact that the constitution forbids this kind of discrimination. Why did you argue with Lord_Nikon's picture? Your idea is exactly what Hitler's idea was: one country, one race. We all know where that one went...so what makes you think your idea of it is better?

Virtually any Spanish word that begins with 'a' has been influenced by Arabic.

Proof please. It'd be pretty strange for names like "Adalberto" and "a" to be from arabic when they're present in all the romance languages in one form or another. Try this: Why don't you name ONE spanish word starting with a, and then name the arabic root word?

I didn't answer your question on Arabic because it was silly, as is your point that I'm somehow now saying "english only." What I am saying is that people who are American and in America should be free to speak whatever they want. It's a free country, that's my idea. Yours is that it's a white country, not a free one. Do you think the "founding fathers" didn't believe in Freedom? (I was using the term as one of admiration, btw, for the people who helped build this into a large country during the early 19th century. Now will you address the issue of whether or not they were wrong to give citizenship to mexicans?).

I notice, Black_Iron, that you didn't answer the question: Where did you get all this knowledge of hispanic culture and what it has or does not have?

Oh, that's right, you ignored that question because you have absolutely zero learning at all on the subject. Which makes sense, because you think school is icky and full of "propaganda". :)

Too smart to learn, eh?
 
After the fall of the Roman Empire the Iberian Peninsula was invaded by Germanic tribes and one of the few Spanish words that were borrowed from their language was the word for goose, which is ganso (cf. German Gans). Much more influence on Spanish had Arabic which was brought to the peninsula by the Moors, an Islamic people from North Africa that invaded Iberia in 711 and conquered most of it. As a result of centuries of Moorish domination many words from Arabic, the language of Islam, are now used in Spanish. Many are easily recognizable because they start with al-, which is actually an Arabic article but was wrongly interpreted as a part of those words by the indigenous population (and probably by many of the Berber speaking Moorish conquerors as well). An example of an Arabic word in Spanish is almirante from amir-al-bahr ("prince of the sea"). This word also entered other European languages (English: admiral, French: amiral). Another example of Arabic influence is the word wadi (river) which is found in many Spanish river names, such as Guadalquivir and Guadalajara.

http://download.travlang.com/Ergane/spanish.htm

Well, there you said it black iron. No one but whites in America, despite the fact that the constitution forbids this kind of discrimination. Why did you argue with Lord_Nikon's picture? Your idea is exactly what Hitler's idea was: one country, one race. We all know where that one went...so what makes you think your idea of it is better?

Can you please give us the relevant article in the Constitution mandating immivasion?

Because I don't see why this country should accomodate Hispanics and Asians.

What I am saying is that people who are American and in America should be free to speak whatever they want.

You asserted that there should be Spanish documents, roadsigns, etc.

Which makes sense, because you think school is icky and full of "propaganda".

It's no secret that schools are the lowest-common denominator of American society.

Too smart to learn, eh?

What you consider "learning", most of us recognize as indoctrination.
 
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