Mauser 98 EJECTION issue
- Thread starter Moloch
- Start date
The standing ejector of the 98 series depends entirely on speed of bolt travel rearward to impart force on the fired case to eject it.
When all the parts are correct consistency of ejection is entirely dependent on the operator's consistency of operation.
Some rifles will only work well when the bolt is operated "smartly", particularly when new and things are as tight as they are going to get. Other rifles may be more tolerant. Each one can be frustratingly individual about this.
IF possible have someone else (or more then one) shoot the rifle and work the action. Alternatively, make up some dummy rounds so they can feed through the action repeatedly for function testing without firing live ammo.
See if they have the same problems you do. If yes, its probably the rifle. If not, its possibly you...
I'd try that, before doing any modifications to the gun parts. Sorry I didn't mention this first thing, I should have.
When all the parts are correct consistency of ejection is entirely dependent on the operator's consistency of operation.
Some rifles will only work well when the bolt is operated "smartly", particularly when new and things are as tight as they are going to get. Other rifles may be more tolerant. Each one can be frustratingly individual about this.
IF possible have someone else (or more then one) shoot the rifle and work the action. Alternatively, make up some dummy rounds so they can feed through the action repeatedly for function testing without firing live ammo.
See if they have the same problems you do. If yes, its probably the rifle. If not, its possibly you...
I'd try that, before doing any modifications to the gun parts. Sorry I didn't mention this first thing, I should have.
Complete Mauser ejector assemblies are not that hard to come by.
You can leave your original untouched. If you are getting insufficient protrusion of your ejector blade from the bolt face,you can take some steel off the replacement bolt stop. See what happens.
If it does not help,your original is still pristine.
At full bolt rear stroke,how much does the ejector blade protrude from the bolt face? A precision calibrated eyeball measurement should suffice.
A Mauser is pretty simple,and they have been around a long time.
I certainly would not alter the feed rails to try to fix an ejection problem. I don't see any connection.
Something your picture causes me to wonder...Does the brass have sufficient "window" to swing out past the rear receiver ring?
It looks like the brass might be stopping on the inner corner of the rear receiver ring. If it is,a discrete chamfer on the inside corner might give the brass a better escape route. Nothing radical. As I imagine it,you would not see an change on the outside of the receiver.
If it looks like you actually have an interference issue,just a little relief on the inside corner might make the difference.
It won't help anything if the brass is not stoppng on that inside corner.
You can leave your original untouched. If you are getting insufficient protrusion of your ejector blade from the bolt face,you can take some steel off the replacement bolt stop. See what happens.
If it does not help,your original is still pristine.
At full bolt rear stroke,how much does the ejector blade protrude from the bolt face? A precision calibrated eyeball measurement should suffice.
A Mauser is pretty simple,and they have been around a long time.
I certainly would not alter the feed rails to try to fix an ejection problem. I don't see any connection.
Something your picture causes me to wonder...Does the brass have sufficient "window" to swing out past the rear receiver ring?
It looks like the brass might be stopping on the inner corner of the rear receiver ring. If it is,a discrete chamfer on the inside corner might give the brass a better escape route. Nothing radical. As I imagine it,you would not see an change on the outside of the receiver.
If it looks like you actually have an interference issue,just a little relief on the inside corner might make the difference.
It won't help anything if the brass is not stoppng on that inside corner.
Last edited:
I looked at my k98k and Spanish mauser. The ejector is more or less flush with front of the split lug when the bolt is pulled all the way back. It extends into the center of the bolt face by about 1/8", occupying the whole slit.
Didn't you say the bolt feel difficult to pull back the last bit? Check the the slit in the bolt where the ejector blade resides. Make there is no burr or roughness there to impede the ejector, which is spring loaded.
If needed, the ejector blade can be stretched to have more protrusion.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Didn't you say the bolt feel difficult to pull back the last bit? Check the the slit in the bolt where the ejector blade resides. Make there is no burr or roughness there to impede the ejector, which is spring loaded.
If needed, the ejector blade can be stretched to have more protrusion.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I am not sure if it has enough window, my Mauser 98 seems similar but there is no way to be sure. The receiver would be the last thing I want to remove material from though.
The ejector protrudes a tiny bit beyond the shroud of the bolt face, it looks just like my 98k. Could be a few thousands less, but I cant tell by just eyeballing it. I'll get a new bolt stop/housing to test if shortening it helps.
I don't think that is whats happening, ejection is significantly better with an EMPTY magazine. I also swapped the follower spring and follower with those of my other working Mauser, I got the same result.
I checked the rim sizes and compared it with the 8x57 cases I have, which work great in my K98k. They are the same size. Also, my 98k feeds the 7x57 ammo, I already tried that. (Not all the way though, its an 8x57 gun after all)
Also, as I mentioned, if I slip an empty brass case under the extractor the case is held firm and nicely, just as the bolt of my K98k does.
I did some more experiments with dummies and empty brass cases, I can now say with total certainty:
If the upmost cartridge in the magazine box is on the left side the rifle will not properly eject the brass case. If the topmost cartridge in the magazine is on the right side, or if there is no round in the magazine at all, ejection is fine.
I am pretty sure that when brass is ejected the rear of the empty brass hits the rim of the unfired cartridge of the left side of the magazine. If the topmost cartridge is on the right side the brass has enough space to clear everything and to be ejected out with force.
But - how in the 9 hells am I supposed to fix THAT?
If the upmost cartridge in the magazine box is on the left side the rifle will not properly eject the brass case. If the topmost cartridge in the magazine is on the right side, or if there is no round in the magazine at all, ejection is fine.
I am pretty sure that when brass is ejected the rear of the empty brass hits the rim of the unfired cartridge of the left side of the magazine. If the topmost cartridge is on the right side the brass has enough space to clear everything and to be ejected out with force.
But - how in the 9 hells am I supposed to fix THAT?
Its hard to say what parts you got in your kit. There are variants in followers.
The ridge on top of the follower determines the left/right stacking.
I'm not sayting "Eureka!!" but the rising follower/cartridge below the round being ejected plays a part.
I suggest swapping the spring/follower from one of your other Mausers to try.
EZ enough to try
The ridge on top of the follower determines the left/right stacking.
I'm not sayting "Eureka!!" but the rising follower/cartridge below the round being ejected plays a part.
I suggest swapping the spring/follower from one of your other Mausers to try.
EZ enough to try
A couple of other things I have observed working with milsurp Mausers. Yours is apparently a commercial,this may not apply.
The receiver rails are typically soft,and they are not a high alloy steel.
The process of using a proper barrel vise and receiver wrench is slow and takes dedicated tools.
If you work in the warehouse of some gun boneyard or if you are an amateur who has a lot to learn,you might use a tire iron or a crescent wrench to unscrew the receiver from the barrel. The receiver will twist. The rails will bend.
The geometry of the receiver is hosed.
I once bought a 1952 vintage commercial FN Supreme Magnum action that had that problem (I later discovered) . I had the inspection tools,surface plate,height gauge,vee blocks toolmaker vise,,indicators,etc.
I made a wrench,like a long bolt with locking lugs and a handle and straightened the mess back out . But folks need to know its remarkably easy to twist the rails of a Mauser .They are not an anvil.
Another potential issue is the extractor itself. Like a 1911 extractor, just a little judicious filing ...a chamfer here,a radius there,a bit of blending, with an eye for the brass feeding smoothly under the hook as it angles up,...isn't necessarilly done as extractors are produced.
That is why an armorer would assemble each rifle on the bench and check it for function before it was stamped with a cartouche. Its not reshape and redesign the part. Its just that some subtle features are complex and costly to machine when three or four strokes with a file will do.
These days,manufacturing has changed. Old Charlie,his bench,and his file are gone. Every part in the stockroom is supposed to be drop in.
Your Mauser is from Charlie's era.
Maybe you have a local Smith who has some Charlie left in him. Some things just need a different set of eyes to see.
Your Mauser is one of millions. They work. Its some silly simple thing.
The receiver rails are typically soft,and they are not a high alloy steel.
The process of using a proper barrel vise and receiver wrench is slow and takes dedicated tools.
If you work in the warehouse of some gun boneyard or if you are an amateur who has a lot to learn,you might use a tire iron or a crescent wrench to unscrew the receiver from the barrel. The receiver will twist. The rails will bend.
The geometry of the receiver is hosed.
I once bought a 1952 vintage commercial FN Supreme Magnum action that had that problem (I later discovered) . I had the inspection tools,surface plate,height gauge,vee blocks toolmaker vise,,indicators,etc.
I made a wrench,like a long bolt with locking lugs and a handle and straightened the mess back out . But folks need to know its remarkably easy to twist the rails of a Mauser .They are not an anvil.
Another potential issue is the extractor itself. Like a 1911 extractor, just a little judicious filing ...a chamfer here,a radius there,a bit of blending, with an eye for the brass feeding smoothly under the hook as it angles up,...isn't necessarilly done as extractors are produced.
That is why an armorer would assemble each rifle on the bench and check it for function before it was stamped with a cartouche. Its not reshape and redesign the part. Its just that some subtle features are complex and costly to machine when three or four strokes with a file will do.
These days,manufacturing has changed. Old Charlie,his bench,and his file are gone. Every part in the stockroom is supposed to be drop in.
Your Mauser is from Charlie's era.
Maybe you have a local Smith who has some Charlie left in him. Some things just need a different set of eyes to see.
Your Mauser is one of millions. They work. Its some silly simple thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, a parts kit means the parts have never been assembled and tested as a functional firearm. So, any fitting and tweaking needed to get things to work in on the consumer, alone.
Try testing without the follower or spring in the gun. It SEEMS to be related to the follower height, both with and without ammo. If ejection is "better" with an empty mag, but not "flawless" then the issue seems to be something related to the follower. Something is creating drag on the fired case so it doesn't fly free when it hits the ejector.
Yes, parts kit from the factory, never assembled and all parts from the same factory/manufacturer. Most work had to be done on the inside of the magazine box, it was so rough the follower would bind and get stuck, leading to the bolt not picking up rounds every now and then. Polished it to a mirror finish, also smoothed out the edges of the follower. Feeding is now absolutely effortless.
I already tested it without the magazine and without any rounds in the magazine. Ejection is exactly the same in both instances, it only gets worse with a full magazine, and it totally fails when there is cartridge on the left side of the magazine.
I already tested it without the magazine and without any rounds in the magazine. Ejection is exactly the same in both instances, it only gets worse with a full magazine, and it totally fails when there is cartridge on the left side of the magazine.
Last edited:
I worked the action outside the stock, it does the exact same thing.
I did a few more tests and this time I caught it. The empty brass case got stuck between the upper receiver wall and the cartridge from the magazine box. I could hold the rifle at any angle and the case would be stuck there, I had to pull out out with my fingers.
Looks like the cartridge on the right is indeed a bit too high. Is the cartridge already touching the magazine box on the right? Or can you push it further to the right to lower it? Does the cartridge on the right ever jump out of the mag prematurely during feeding?
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
In the above picture the cartridge in the magazine box is on the LEFT side, that's when the ejection issues happen.
Feeding and extraction is excellent, the cartridges sit properly in the magazine.
Oops. I thought you were showing the pictue when the ejection problem happens. My bad.
In your previous posts, you described the cartridge on the right interfering the egress of the empty. Do you have a picture showing the position of a cartridge on the right relative to the bolt face? I would suggest tracing the head of the empty on the bolt with thin sharpies. It would show how much the the cartridge encroaches upon the empty. In my Spanish mauser there little or no encroachment (1st photo). When the bolt clears the cartridge by about 1/16", ejector comes flush with bolt face to start ejection (2nd photo).
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
In your previous posts, you described the cartridge on the right interfering the egress of the empty. Do you have a picture showing the position of a cartridge on the right relative to the bolt face? I would suggest tracing the head of the empty on the bolt with thin sharpies. It would show how much the the cartridge encroaches upon the empty. In my Spanish mauser there little or no encroachment (1st photo). When the bolt clears the cartridge by about 1/16", ejector comes flush with bolt face to start ejection (2nd photo).
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Good catch with the pic in post #34. It clearly shows what is going on, and the problem is clearance.
Looks like the maker in their zeal to make the action "tight" made it a little too tight in the wrong spot. I should have started thinking in that direction when you told us the bolt from your old 98 wouldn't even go into the new action...
Now the question becomes what to do about it. Making changes to the follower so the round or follower itself doesn't interfere MIGHT cause feeding issues, so that seems a poor choice.
From the picture it appears the case is stuck between the round in the mag and the bottom of the upper "rail" of the action, and NOT stuck between the upper and lower edges of the bolt raceway of the action. Is this correct??
Seems like CAREFULLY removing some metal from the upper action should fix the problem...BUT that's something that once done is not easily undone...
IF it were a manufactured rifle you bought, I would send it back and have them fix it. Since it was a kit, this may not be possible. Before doing any (more?) metal work on the action, I'd contact the maker, and see what, if any warranty they have and what, if any work they will do.
Assuming, of course you trust them to do the work and get it right...
Good Luck with your project!
Looks like the maker in their zeal to make the action "tight" made it a little too tight in the wrong spot. I should have started thinking in that direction when you told us the bolt from your old 98 wouldn't even go into the new action...
Now the question becomes what to do about it. Making changes to the follower so the round or follower itself doesn't interfere MIGHT cause feeding issues, so that seems a poor choice.
From the picture it appears the case is stuck between the round in the mag and the bottom of the upper "rail" of the action, and NOT stuck between the upper and lower edges of the bolt raceway of the action. Is this correct??
Seems like CAREFULLY removing some metal from the upper action should fix the problem...BUT that's something that once done is not easily undone...
IF it were a manufactured rifle you bought, I would send it back and have them fix it. Since it was a kit, this may not be possible. Before doing any (more?) metal work on the action, I'd contact the maker, and see what, if any warranty they have and what, if any work they will do.
Assuming, of course you trust them to do the work and get it right...
Good Luck with your project!
Yes, that is correct! The size of the rim of the cartridge is too big to get stuck between the upper & lower bolt ''raceway''. The case is basically held against the ''ceiling'' of the action by the left cartridge in the magazine, at an angle, so basically by the spring tension of the magazine. That explains why it works with an empty magazine or with a round on the right side of the mag.
My plan is to remove material from the upper raceway till the case has enough space to clear the action without getting spring tension from the following cartridge. My rough guess is that I have to remove about 4 thousands.
I already got started with #400 paper wrapped around a wooden dowel and inserted into the rear of the action. I'm not sure if I can make it though, despite what people say about Spanish made guns, the steel is HARD. I worked for 3 hours and it just looks a little smoother. And my fingers are already bloody. I don't have the guts to go in there with a Dremel though.
Returning the kit is something I cannot do though, the kit came with certificate saying it was made in 1971.
armednfree
New member
I would say minus a milling machine a Dremel would be what you want . Not just the Dremel motor but the wand with it. Use a course then fine stones. Your bolt ways are rough enough that there is no worry if you occasionally tap the bottom and leave a fine swirl.
I would get a magnifier and work under that.
I would open the bolt so that round in in that position, jammed. I would mark TDC on the case and on the frame. Then I would pull the case out and set it on top of the round in the magazine on those reference points. I would use a fine felt pen and mark along the rim facing the bolt where it touches the rail. conversely you could use some Machinist's Blue Layout Fluid and a sharp carbide scribe. Then I would move the case forward until the edge of the rim is lined up with the reference mark keeping the top line even with the top of the rail. Mark the left edge of the case head. Dremel that slot out starting with a course stone and going to a fine near the end. make sure you just barely take the line. Do not let it over heat, stop often and possibly put a wet rag under it.
If you can't get to an ares to mark it you may have to use some spotting blue on the case head.
Not a job for someone who is indeterminate or twitchy.
Last edited: