Mass Shooting In New Zealand
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what did he say that is inaccurate?
this is very similar to the old movie where the guy yells that he's mad as hell and that he is not going to take it any more.... and yet, millions have sat back down on their couches and turned on the t.v. without a second thought....
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I see that the country is ready to rid itself of guns. I notice ridiculous gun laws being passed around the country. There’s not any real champions of gun rights. The majority of the population wants a radical change in the direction this country is going, that direction does not include gun rights. That’s an extreme possibility.
On the not so extreme front, and a more realistic outcome is this: the conditions that cause large groups of people to be vulnerable to these styles of attacks will not change. There will still be gun free zones in any possible foreseeable future. There will never be a time that a law abiding gun owner can carry in most public venues. More attacks will happen and nothing will change that will increase the likelihood of an armed citizen being present.
If a gun isn’t present then there’s no way that a good guy with a gun would have a chance to stop it. 10-15 years ago, I had a more positive outlook as licenses to carry began gaining popularity and more people were arming themselves. I foresaw a safer country with fewer mass shootings. But instead, these attacks have been increasing in severity and frequency. These attacks have become our national identity almost. If gun restrictions aren’t going to relax, then we need to start looking beyond the good guy with a gun strategy and come up with real solutions instead of catchy slogans.
I think that accepting the fact that these attacks are going to happen and that there’s nothing real that can be done is a defeatist mindset.
I carry for my own protection, but I doubt I’ll ever be at one of these events anyway. Either we need to stand up and make carrying unimpeded or move on to something else. The possibility of a good guy with a gun is just random happenstance at best with current and future events. The tragedies will most certainly happen and we haven’t seen the worst of it. The good guy with a gun being there is improbable unless unlikely changes to gun laws happen. EVENTUALLY the police will get there, that’s all we have that’s fairly certain. We can do better but it will require an effort that I haven’t even seen the start of yet.
On the not so extreme front, and a more realistic outcome is this: the conditions that cause large groups of people to be vulnerable to these styles of attacks will not change. There will still be gun free zones in any possible foreseeable future. There will never be a time that a law abiding gun owner can carry in most public venues. More attacks will happen and nothing will change that will increase the likelihood of an armed citizen being present.
If a gun isn’t present then there’s no way that a good guy with a gun would have a chance to stop it. 10-15 years ago, I had a more positive outlook as licenses to carry began gaining popularity and more people were arming themselves. I foresaw a safer country with fewer mass shootings. But instead, these attacks have been increasing in severity and frequency. These attacks have become our national identity almost. If gun restrictions aren’t going to relax, then we need to start looking beyond the good guy with a gun strategy and come up with real solutions instead of catchy slogans.
I think that accepting the fact that these attacks are going to happen and that there’s nothing real that can be done is a defeatist mindset.
I carry for my own protection, but I doubt I’ll ever be at one of these events anyway. Either we need to stand up and make carrying unimpeded or move on to something else. The possibility of a good guy with a gun is just random happenstance at best with current and future events. The tragedies will most certainly happen and we haven’t seen the worst of it. The good guy with a gun being there is improbable unless unlikely changes to gun laws happen. EVENTUALLY the police will get there, that’s all we have that’s fairly certain. We can do better but it will require an effort that I haven’t even seen the start of yet.
Best post of the thread.
Yes.
Training.....Training that incorporates lessons learned for both CCW and First Responders would make things more effective.
Well let's look at the options:
1. Good guy with a gun is random but No guns is certain just like Paris or a gun free zone leaves us all victims. That is not the answer so even though the statistical chances of having a "good guy with a gun" are small....some chance is better than NONE.
2. Sweeping uniform CCL reciprocity would help by increasing the statistical chances but really getting at the cause of mass shooting or preventing them is not the real agenda....gun control is the agenda.
3. Gun Free zones represent "target rich environments" and further erode the statistical chances of seeing a Good Guy with a Gun materialize.
The argument the "good guy with a gun" does not help logic is a false flag operation used by the gun control agenda. It is a false pretense that appears to be truth because for much of its work, there is nothing to do.
It is very difficult if not impossible to prove how many mass shootings were prevented that never began or targets that were passed over by a shooter.
It is the same argument Hollyweird used to shut down the School of the America's. One of the best programs in existence for professionalizing 3rd World Nation Armies and teaching them how a military functions in a Democracy including the laws of land warfare as well as civil/military relationships and the negative effects of war crimes. Because one cannot keep statistics on how many war crimes were prevented because you cannot record a war crime not committed....
A few idiots squawking loudly with Hollywood influence and money got the program shut down.
The problem with 'free training via the Internet" etc, is that it is a double edged sword. Because while you will be teaching some people useful things, you will ALSO be teaching those same useful things to the bad guys.
now, there's no way around that, completely but it seems unlikely to me that those who do go on these rampages will pay money for actual training. But its known they will absorb what ever they can get off the Net like so many sponges. They have studied the news about the various attacks, and some of them have shown to have taken some lessons to heart.
Still, I see no good reason to give them such information just because we can. But people don't often think about that. I saw network news tell us all the best spots on the Golden Gate bridge to place explosives. Of course, they were telling us about those spots so we would know where to look for suspicious things, but still, they told the world (with pictures) just how to mine a bridge...
I do find it somewhat interesting that half a century ago we didn't have nearly the level of mass shootings we have today, even though essentially the same weapons capability existed then. Of course, we did have radical students setting off bombs and starting riots...so..is it a wash?
now, there's no way around that, completely but it seems unlikely to me that those who do go on these rampages will pay money for actual training. But its known they will absorb what ever they can get off the Net like so many sponges. They have studied the news about the various attacks, and some of them have shown to have taken some lessons to heart.
Still, I see no good reason to give them such information just because we can. But people don't often think about that. I saw network news tell us all the best spots on the Golden Gate bridge to place explosives. Of course, they were telling us about those spots so we would know where to look for suspicious things, but still, they told the world (with pictures) just how to mine a bridge...
I do find it somewhat interesting that half a century ago we didn't have nearly the level of mass shootings we have today, even though essentially the same weapons capability existed then. Of course, we did have radical students setting off bombs and starting riots...so..is it a wash?
armoredman
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Yes there is - If I am in a place, there is a man with a gun there. Me.rickyrick said:
You don't read the news much? Oklahoma, Constitutional Carry this year, Kentucky, same thing, pretty big news. Arizona defeated all anti gun bills so far this year, even the Governor's pet Red Flag bill, and moves to loosen carry on school grounds to allow parents to drop off and pick up students with their firearms in the car with them. Methinks you are overstating the negative and understating the positive, sir.rickyrick said:
Maintaining our 2nd Amendment rights are more important than any shooting. Adult US citizens have the right to keep and bear arms independent of permits, licensing, and training. Whatever laws exist should encourage and cultivate the exercise of that right, especially in cases of defense.
There will always be guns in the world, the various governments and armies of the world will see to that. As a result, people intent on evil will be always be able to acquire guns. Free and strong societies will in no way discourage gun ownership and use by it's members, and the last thing it should want is to reduce the number of citizens with arms.
There will always be guns in the world, the various governments and armies of the world will see to that. As a result, people intent on evil will be always be able to acquire guns. Free and strong societies will in no way discourage gun ownership and use by it's members, and the last thing it should want is to reduce the number of citizens with arms.
Agreed
I've been running into this attitude for some time now....
If you speak of how truly screwed we are, you're met with "you're a defeatist"
Stating facts isn't being a defeatist, it's simply stating facts
On the contrary I believe that this burry your head in the sand mentality is what helped get us to this point. Gun owners now don't want to come out of their safe-spaces and admit that at this point we are eff'ed. So their go-to defensive mechanism is to deny the problem and attack the messenger "You're just a defeatist!"
Gun owners need to take their medicine
Gun owners need to admit they've been far too lazy for far too long
Gun owners need to admit that on our current trajectory the 2A is done in 10-20 years (max)
Gun owners need to admit that we have lost and that THE LEFT IS WINNING ITS WAR AGAINST THE 2ND
"Oh so you're saying we should just give up!"
Nope
I'm saying we first need to come to grips with reality
We could double our current efforts and it will not stop them
We could quadruple our current efforts.....but it won't mean a thing
TBM900 said:
Why do they need to admit that?
I'd be curious to know when any of you individually began to follow these issues, because the starting point for the trend will influence the direction shown for the trend.
I could understand despair in someone born during WWII. A starting point of 1960 would show people buying more or less what they pleased with a terminating point involving tons of regulation.
I started noting this issue in the mid 1970s. The big problem was "Saturday night specials" allegedly used almost exclusively in crime, and Morton Grove outlawed all firearms. Bizarre "sporting purpose" requirements were imposed on imported pistols. Then Congress and WJC saved us from the deadly 11th round and bayonet lugs for a decade.
End your trend in 1994, and things look pretty rough.
However, 2007 brings Heller and legally secure individual carry became common. Little children were slaughtered in Newtown, the very sort of thing that sent Austrailians over the edge, and Sen Feinstein's grotesque cynicism paid had no legislative result. Measure your trend from 2004 and this looks like a renaissance.
good on you but most places large venues, there will not be a person with a gun there. Are you statng that you will violate a law and carry in a
Prohibited place.
that is great news, I wish that would happen all over the country. Doesn’t help the rest of us much. I still see gun restrictions being emplaced at a faster rate than the other way. Much progress on our side can be turned around in an election or two. Fly ove states are bucking the system for now, but they will flip, or the nation will become more divided. The problem is too many people think things are going fine, they are being complacent, they count on a constitution that isn’t worth as much, they don pay attention to what’s being taught in schools. If you don’t know what’s being taught in schools, you might want to check it out. They have started voting, even more will start voting this year and a steady stream will continue to flood our elections. I’ve heard the recordings of teachers for a few years now. The kids are being indoctrinated to lean in one political direction. They are being taught that the other side is immoral. Vote and don’t be complacent.
This is all beside the point, because there’s nothing to guarantee that a law abiding citizen is going to be there with a gun at the next event, maybe a few fly over states allow carry of a firearm at any venue at any time no matter what, but that’s not how it is in the rest of the country. We need another answer besides the good guy with a gun slogan. We need to stop saying such things because they aren’t real or attainable. They only serve the speaker of those words. The most likely scenario is that these events will continue to happen and the shooter will most likely be stopped when the police arrive after many people have already been lost. There is a low chance that an armed civilian will be there, a low chance but a chance all the same, I suppose.
I won’t detract from the small wins in some less densely populated areas either, I’m glad that they can carry a little more freely. Just not the norm for the rest of the country and it will not allow many mass shootings to be stopped in a quick manner.
I remember when citizens could carry concealed in very few states and the vast majority of states had no system permitting concealed carry. I remember when you were required to show an ID and have your name, address, and what pistol ammo you were buying recorded. I remember when new automatic pistol and detachable rifle magazines were limited to 10 rounds.
I'm not attempting to minimize the assault on the 2nd Amendment at the moment, but I do remember a time when the arms and ammunition were regulated as much or more than they are now. And years ago I never expected to see the option of concealed carry we have today in so many areas of the country.
So the facts (reality) are that some things have been worse in relatively recent times. Therefore I'm not buying the suggestion that the 2nd is done in 10-20 years, or that we have lost.
Edit - I see Zuki basically beat me to it.
Half a century ago we did not have a generation raised on entitlement instilled with the a firm belief they are best who can do anything while being responsible for nothing. We allowed an education system to indoctrinate them that all our foundations of individual liberty and responsibility are wrong. They believe they can succeed and will not make the mistakes of history.
We never taught them life is about failure and success comes when you pick yourself from failure
50 years ago we had still had a majority raised on humility, responsibility, and earning their way. Back then people did not think it was normal much less being "better educated" to pay almost half their income in taxes, 16 bucks to cross a bridge, and watch the garbage/feces pile up on the sidewalk. What is so laughable is they want to solve your problems too.
Food for thought:
https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/n...54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/
This is not a hardware issue, it is a socio-economic problem.
https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/n...54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/
This is not a hardware issue, it is a socio-economic problem.
I believe you're partially right but if anything the left had its chance for a victory during the Obama administration and they would've had more of a chance had Hillary won in 2016. As it was, though, that wasn't the case and I would say that during the Obama administration that the pendulum swung in our direction. From what I know lots of leftists were not to pleased with Obama because he didn't work to establish more gun control like they wanted him to. Then when Hillary lost in 2016 so many leftists went nuts. Now during the Trump administration is our chance to win. When Trump won the White House in 2016 there was also a republican controlled Senate and a republican controlled House. As of now the Democrats have taken control of the house but its more just a blue splash, not a blue wave. Yes I do believe that lots of people who believe in gun rights have gone to sleep during the Trump administration and they need to wake back up. If doubling and quadrupling our efforts won't do it then we need to increase our efforts tenfold.
There have been some more restrictive gun laws that have been passed at a state level but only at certain states and in other states restrictive gun laws have been overturned. Yes there are lots of gun owners and people who are for gun rights who aren't doing much right now and they need a wakeup call. But if you want an example of somebody who is doing much for gun rights check out Kaitlin Bennett who gained fame when she posed with a rifle on the college campus she recently graduated from. She is doing much to turn the tide and get others to fight for gun rights, and there are others like her.
Half a century ago would've been 1969 at the time of this posting, that was during the Vietnam era and there were some big movements such as the hippie movement going on. Are you saying people were brought up very differently back in 1969?
If you ask me the problem is mental health, whenever there's a mass shooting the vast majority of the time the shooter has a mental health problem.
Yes. I was brought up in that time frame. They "hippie" movement is way overrated and hardly reflected the majority viewpoint although their was some intersection on a some points. It has been romanticized by the Universities professors attempting to relive their childhood while indoctrinating our latest generation.
The hippie was not the majority of Americans and we were still considered a frontier culture agrarian based society. The majority of Americans came from small towns and farms. They were also much more critical thinking oriented with the ability able to seperate good ideas from the bad in a compromise. It was the solid foundation laid prior to then allowing us to emerge on course for the future.
Back then people did not think it was normal much less being "better educated" to pay almost half their income in taxes, 16 bucks to cross a bridge, and watch the garbage/feces pile up on the sidewalk.
Of course it is mental health. It is the polarization, sense of entitlement and lack of character taught to this generation that gives clear path to the unhealthy.
Look at the World War II generation, they suffered in silence, rolled up their sleeves, and tried to make the best for all of us. You think they did not have some mental problems after the depression and then World War II????
Look at the newest generation, they are so obsessed with their own narcissism they die taking pictures of themselves to get the validation of strangers on instagram. Meanwhile, Hollywood cranks out another "Hero Solves his problems with a gun movie" that you can watch after shooting all the people shaped targets on your Xbox.
Oh yeah, that guy that disagrees with you...He is a Nazi...yep....nazi.
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