Mary Lou Sapone, 2nd A heroine.

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Apparently a well-paid hero but I digress. Guess we disagree on what a hero is. I served with some but not like this lady.
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Is that your objection? That she got paid? Correct me if Im wrong TG, but mostSoldiers, no matter how patriotic, wouldnt work for free. Are you simply jealous that she got a better rate for her service than you did? Or do you object in principle to people getting paid for exercising thier talents?
 
most Soldiers, no matter how patriotic, wouldnt work for free.
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Sure they get paid and many of mine were on food stamps and lived in HUD housing. Nevertheless they went places and did things that put their lives at risk and did it in an open and honest way. They didn't do it for the pay, they did it because they loved their country.

This lady was a sneek who made a lot of money for reading someone else's mail and we don't even know if she is progun or not. Wonder what her motivation was?

I think there's a difference.

We don't need to infiltrate the Brady Campaign for heaven's sake to beat them. If we can't beat them on their positions which are silly, then we deserve to lose.
 
"Maybe you need to hear some other perspectives about these things. It's good to keep an open mind. It's smart too."

Fair enough. Not being patronizing is a good idea too.

Tim
 
Now I see why TG put me on ignore.

"We need to beat the brady campaign on their own terms." Since when does fighting your enemy on their terms do any good? That's a good way to lose, ain't no such thing as a "neutral battlefield", never has been. Like who would win between the Romans and the Samurai in Japan?

See what I am saying? There is no logic in his world. Ah well, I'll be talking through him, and he'll see what I am saying no matter what! :D :p
 
I'm not a fan of lying. But I do believe in the necessity of covert operations.
I think her actions come under that heading. Dirty tricks countering cheap dirty tricks. Yeah, that works.
 
TG said:
Maybe you need to hear some other perspectives about these things. It's good to keep an open mind. It's smart too.
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I don't think Wikipaedia is an authoritative source, but here it seems to suffice.

Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what a speaker / writer /actor says or does, and what he or she means or what is generally understood.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
 
I think the Brady side of this argument sides with the political philosophy that has killed over 150 million of their own citizens in the last century. How can they "speak" and say something is not fair?
 
Virtually every media outlet and a painfully high number of politicians are against us and will unabashedly repeat the lies of the anti-gun groups without so much as a blush. Considering this I will take all the help we can get. I have no problems with what she did.
 
It's called industrial espionage

People infiltrate foundries to learn there steel recipies, Pharmaceutical companies, medical research, toy companies, on and on. Ethical? Theft? I don't know. Gun control. It is a war. I seem to remember taking an oath to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic at one time. I don't believe there was a time limit attached to that. If one of the bill of rights is repealed or found mute the rest will fall like dominos.
 
The gun control organizations are conspiracies to attack a civil liberty, no different from, say, the KKK. Of course they should be spied upon.

So, she was paid to do it. You'd have to pay ME to do that, too; It's not the safest activity in the world, you know. In this case she's fairly safe because she got outed publicly. If somebody had just quietly notified the Brady center of her status, she might have been the victim of a fatal mugging or car accident. At the very least they could have maneuvered her into a position of serious legal jeopardy, framed her for embezzlement, to add some spice to outing her.

And, yes, they're spying on us, too; Planting moles in organizations they don't like is a major activity of the SPLC, to name just one group on the other side. They've arranged burglaries, too.

This isn't a game of ping pong. The stakes are high, and nobody's playing by elevated rules, on either side.
 
Just how much "Marquis of Queensbury" rules of engagement are we willing to apply to people who are actively trying to subvert our basic human rights?

I'm not inclined to be all that nice.
 
Wow, the paranoia on here is thick as peanut butter.:eek: If I were a tin foil hat salesman I would get rich here. So, we have to spy on the Brady Campaign? You know I wish some of you on here could step back and be objective and really take a look at yourselves.

Some of you sound kind of crazy and that is a greater danger to gun ownership than the Brady Campaign. You will do yourselves in with the paranoia and anti-government rhetoric. You sure are making it hard for the rest of us (and you are a minority even though not on this board) to effect change on people's attitude towards guns and gun ownership. I know a lot of you say you don't care but keep in mind that public attitudes tend to effect voting AND court decisions. You can argue all you want about your "natural" rights but if the public and then the courts turn on you then your arguments will fall on deaf ears, and more gun control.

I heard a guy on Tom Gresham's Guntalk who regularly calls in and talks about this two party pact between the Creator and us regarding "natural" rights and that government was a fiction and had no authority over us. Even Alan Gottlieb (who was hosting the show that day) kind of laughed it off and told the guy that fictional government might put him in jail. I'll bet that guy is a poster here.

People infiltrate foundries to learn there steel recipies, Pharmaceutical companies, medical research, toy companies, on and on. Ethical?
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If you don't know whether that is ethical or not then that is really sad. You can call me whatever but two wrongs don't make a right and getting in the mud with your opponent makes you just as dirty.

This stuff would be funny if it wasn't so sad.:(
 
"So, we have to spy on the Brady Campaign?"

Yes, we do. We need to know what they are up to, and if they are smart (and they are) they will want to know what *we* are up to, also.

Tim
 
If you don't know whether that is ethical or not then that is really sad. You can call me whatever but two wrongs don't make a right and getting in the mud with your opponent makes you just as dirty.
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I wonder how the Cold War would've turned out if we applied this kind of thinking to that struggle.

"Yeah, the KGB is stealing secrets from Los Alamos and they'll have the atomic bomb 15 years or so before they could've developed it on their own...but we aren't going to dirty our hands by spying on them."

Or World War Two? Spy on the Nazis? Heck no. Disband the OSS right now. We can't lower ourselves to their level.

Of course, the Soviet Union and the Nazis were existential threats to our liberties from the outside.

I guess that makes it different. The Brady Campaign has offices located right here in America, so their attempts to eradicate one of my God-given rights can be excused. See, they're an "in house" problem.

And who cares if groups like the Brady Campaign have used lies and media manipulation for decades? Falsified statistics? Knowingly so? That shouldn't make a difference, right?

You know, if our opponents only used facts and logical debate rather than distortions and emotional rants...I might actually feel guilty about this stuff. I might be embarassed. But I cannot be embarassed by having a mole inside Joseph Goebbels' office.

Could somebody explain to me why we are required to be tolerant of people who advocate zero tolerance for my freedoms? I can tolerate just about anything but intolerance.
 
Aside from hysterical hand-wringing about how pro-gun people will do themselves in, what is the argument against this woman's act?

Has she committed a crime? Has she violated a non-disclosure agreement? Has she misappropriated information correctly designated as confidential?
 
The Brady Campaign has offices located right here in America
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But I cannot be embarassed by having a mole inside Joseph Goebbels' office.
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And the Brady Campaign is like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union? Paul Helmke is Joseph Goebbels? This is bizarre.:(

And who cares if groups like the Brady Campaign have used lies and media manipulation for decades? Falsified statistics? Knowingly so? That shouldn't make a difference, right?
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Absolute grounds I am sure to do the same thing as they are doing!:rolleyes:

Yes, we do. We need to know what they are up to, and if they are smart (and they are) they will want to know what *we* are up to, also.
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I guess Richard Nixon and his "plumbers" are your heroes too? They had the same thought process. THEY (the Republican Party) was the only real choice for America and the Demoocrats were EVIL. So, in spite of the fact that George McGovern had a snowballs chance in hell of winning, they went and bugged his office and played dirty tricks on his campaign. They got caught and we got Jimmy Carter! Great victory. Didn't we learn anything from that experience? Don't you think that logic and common sense will win the day for us? I guess not so we need to "sabotage" the other side with lies and subtrafuge.

I can tolerate just about anything but intolerance.
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I think they call that a circular argument.
 
What a stupid thread with such a stupid p_______ contest.

On topic, who wants to bet that Sarah Brady's personal assistant is a mole planted by the GOA?

Oh nevermind, the GOA does nothing besides whining or moaning about impending doom.

>>Forwarded email from the GOA:
>>
>>Dear fellow gun-owner:
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>>Run the for the hills! The gun-grabbers are coming!
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>>Signed,
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>>GOA
>>
>>P.S.
>>
>>We are being totally serious.
>>
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Now that Mary Lou's been outed, I hope the NRA still has a few more moles remaining. Which is another way of saying: I'm totally comfortable with these devious espionage moves that the NRA is apparently doing. Welcome to the real world. Related, I will bet that the NRA makes their high-ranking employees sign non-disclosure agreements.
 
Tennessee Gentleman would you describe the information and opinions you're presenting as 'Inconvenient Truths' do you feel the current hot weather we're having is caused by human activity?
 
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