manual safety is unnecessary?

[Cheapshooter]

What are these rules we are adding? Semi auto pistols have come with pistols for over 100 years. It wasn't until Glock came around 30 years ago and everybody else started copying them that people felt the aversion to them that some do.

Automobiles came with automobiles, I mean standard transmissions for many years before the system was modernized, and improved with automatic transmissions.
Personal choice. Stay with 100 year old antiquity, if that is what you are comefortable with. Or take advantage of modern design. Each to their own preference..

 

[str8tshot]

Homerboy: I for one do not have an eversion to manual safety, I just don't have a false sense of security of their efficacy. I have revolvers, hammer fired slide mounted safety/decocker semis, hammer fired frame mounted safeties, and striker fired safe action pistols. I have preferences, but no dogmatic adherence to any one design. I understand how the firearms work and use/carry accordingly.
But, don't tell me I need an external manual safety to be safe, or even reduce risk to a level with which you are comfortable.

 

[Homerboy]

I don't feel you need a manual safety. I just say guns with manual safeties are less likely to go bang when they were no meant to. I don't need a cut off switch on my chainsaw. I don't need child proof caps on medicine bottles. But I'm glad I have them and appreciate them.

 

[rickyrick]

Well, the handgun forum is the worst to participate in....
I've been here for several years, and lurked for a long time. I shoot a lot. but the handgun forums is where many folks whips out their genitalia and slaps anyone on the face that misspeaks, doesn't word something properly or just plain makes a mistake.

I have my opinions on a safety... I like having a couple of options available to me.
As to the original question, not all configurations need a safety, but there's nothing wrong with the person that chooses a safety... That little switch can be overcome and the pistol can be used effectively if equipped.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was taking an advanced handgun class. Most of the class shot Glocks. One guy had a Beretta 92. During one firing sequence the safety fell out into the muck and grass and was lost. Not a rap on the 92 but if you shoot enough you see everything break, including safeties.

 

[Erno86]

I believe I read about an instance...where a guy had his carry gun {1911} rested away from him by another person --- That person tried to shoot him with his own gun, but failed, because he did not know how to manipulate the thumb and/or grip safeties on the 1911 --- I'm sure that if it had been a Glock...it would have possibly turned out to be a different outcome.

BTW...I was pistol muzzle swept by two pistol shooters, at the 100 yard range, last Saturday.

"The frost...sometimes it makes the blade stick."- Maximus Aurelius - from the movie - Gladiator

 

[AK103K]

Again there, its a double edged sword when you consider it.

Good for the guy who had his gun taken away, bad for the guy who was trying to use it, and the safeties hindered him from doing so.

In the above case, its all simply a matter of point of view.

 

[FITASC]

So are Glocks and other striker fired weapons "unsafe"? Not in properly trained hands, though they are more likely to be used in an ND. In the hands of a 100 round a year shooter, they are unsafe in my opinion.

The guns themselves aren't unsafe - as you just said - the OWNER might be unsafe.
For the folks previously mentioned who do not (or will not) get the intense training, KISS applies best - in the stress of the moment when an intruder is breaking into their home, the ability to simply point and shoot is, IMO, better than trying to remember ancillary things like taking a safety off, or racking a slide, etc.

 

[Homerboy]

It's the same answer on all of these threads. "In a moment when you need that gun, a safety can get you killed". Yet nobody here has used their weapon in a shooting.

99% of gun owners won't use their weapon in self defense, so that "safety can get you killed" argument will never be proven.

But 100% of gun owners WILL routinely handle their weapon.

If we're gonna play the odds, I choose the lesser of two evils.

 

[rickyrick]

I faced my own gun... I'm here because it had a safety. I got slammed for bringing it up in another thread. I failed to see the moment when my overbearing anal manipulative future ex-wife made the transition to assault with a deadly weapon but, I was thankful to see that switch in the safe position as she attempted to pull the trigger.

 

[AK103K]

It's the same answer on all of these threads. "In a moment when you need that gun, a safety can get you killed". Yet nobody here has used their weapon in a shooting.

It obviously happens enough in the games and training, with a lot less stress, that it "can" be an issue. I think its pretty safe to assume it "could" happen when you really need it, such as in a shooting.

Then you have the issue afterwards, of making sure its back on, so you dont have the issues associated with that. Which again, happens all the time is less than threatening instances.

It all boils down to what youre comfortable with, and how well youre practiced with it. It seems we started out in this thread with the issue that hardly anyone handled or practiced with their guns, and thats why the safety was better, so they wouldnt inadvertently do something stupid. Now it seems 100% of people do, so now its not so much an issue. Sounds like people are at least learning.

I faced my own gun... I'm here because it had a safety.

And it seems that same safety that saved you, was a failure for your ex-wife, when she felt she needed it the most.

Perspective. Its all about perspective.

 

[Homerboy]

Here's one in today's paper. 3 year old North Carolina boy found the gun behind the register at a store his father was working in. Father was nearby, rolling quarters. Doesn't say the make of the gun, but surely no 3 year old figured out how to disengage a safety.

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-3-dies-accidentally-shooting-gun-article-1.2493719

As for them failing in "games and training", I say who cares? Nobody died, did they? Losing a point at a match isn't as bad as someone losing their life, is it?

As for training, I just don't get that. Never have forgotten to disengage the safety. I Sweep off on every drawer, so if it somehow had gotten engaged, it's off on the draw. As a matter of fact, I keep the SR-9 cocked on an empty chamber with full mag. Last month, my alarm went off at 2 AM. Gun was out of safe next to my bed, safety disengaged, and round racked in with no thought at all. Turned out to be a faulty sensor.

Again, both sides have pros and cons. In the extremely unlikely scenario that I am being attacked, and the even more unlikely scenario that I will fumble with that safety, I guess I am screwed. But since routine gun handling is how the majority of accidental shootings happen, I'll err on the side of caution.

And here's another fact: more people are shot due to accident or negligence every year than those lawfully shot because of criminal actions. A safety wouldnt prevent every one of those incidents, but it has surely lessened them.

 

[45_auto]

but surely no 3 year old figured out how to disengage a safety.

You seem very sure of many things.

You have obviously never raised any 3 year old kids or grandkids. They will push every button, flip every switch, and press every lever on anything they can get their hands on.

You really believe that a 3 year old that, for example, can open a gun safe or put a car into gear couldn't disengage a gun safety?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erGOJxQIf5c

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/90540994.html

As for them failing in "games and training", I say who cares?

Most people have figured out that you will rarely perform as well under pressure as you do during practice or training. Any failure during practice or training should be an obvious warning to you that things are NOT going to get better when the excrement hits the blower.

In the extremely unlikely scenario that I am being attacked, and the even more unlikely scenario that I will fumble with that safety, I guess I am screwed. But since routine gun handling is how the majority of accidental shootings happen, I'll err on the side of caution.

And here's another fact: more people are shot due to accident or negligence every year than those lawfully shot because of criminal actions.

Why not just get rid of the gun entirely? By your own admission, your routine gun handling is far more likely to get you shot than any attack scenario. That would be MUCH more effective than any safety you can imagine.

As a matter of fact, I keep the SR-9 cocked on an empty chamber with full mag. Last month, my alarm went off at 2 AM. Gun was out of safe next to my bed, safety disengaged, and round racked in with no thought at all. Turned out to be a faulty sensor.

Do you routinely run around at 2 AM with your loaded weapon in your hand with the safety disengaged and no specific threat? Or do you train to re-apply the safety when there is no threat?

 

[AK103K]

Doesn't say the make of the gun, but surely no 3 year old figured out how to disengage a safety.

They just had a bunch of sub 5 year old kids on one of the morning news shows getting into all manner of "child-proof" medicine bottles. I doubt a safety on a handgun would be much of an issue.

As for them failing in "games and training", I say who cares? Nobody died, did they? Losing a point at a match isn't as bad as someone losing their life, is it?

Yup, who cares? As long as they didnt die, it doesnt count. I see some don't learn from things in practice either.

Again, both sides have pros and cons. In the extremely unlikely scenario that I am being attacked, and the even more unlikely scenario that I will fumble with that safety, I guess I am screwed. But since routine gun handling is how the majority of accidental shootings happen, I'll err on the side of caution.

And here's another fact: more people are shot due to accident or negligence every year than those lawfully shot because of criminal actions. A safety wouldnt prevent every one of those incidents, but it has surely lessened them.

In either case, we're right back to square one. With regular practice and proper handling, regardless what the gun is, additional manual safeties or not, you eliminate most issues.

 

[Homerboy]

Yes. I have kids. A 9 year old and a 5 year old. And given enough time, they'd figure out how to make the gun operate.

As for running around at 2AM, my alarm went off. My daughters bedroom is downstairs. I checked on my son first in the bedroom next to mine and then went to check on my daughter. So no, I'm not in the "habit" of doing it (although as a retired cop I have surely responded to calls where the guns was out). But you'd better believe I was going to make sure my daughter was OK.

This goes round and round. A manual safety will not prevent EVERY accident. It will prevent SOME. And I don't see it as a trade off at all since I instinctively use them the right way, every time. Does that mean I MIgHt screw up when I pull my LC9-S with the safety engaged? I guess. But as I said, I play the odds. And there is no debating that manual safeties HAVE saved lives, while the best somebody here could come up with regarding them causing a death is some dopey scientist who clearly was unaware on how the weapon operated.

And until Glock convinced the world his product was the only one to have, people were just fine carrying a pistol with one.

 

[Erno86]

Say a person brings a rifle that is equipped with a manual safety and a Glock to a gunfight...I speculate that a person so equipped, should have his subconscious well trained to differentiate between the two safety systems, or he might wind-up in a heckofa lot of trouble.

 

[Gats Italian]

After reading this entire thread I am more convinced than ever that hammer fired, DA/SA with a decocker only, is the best way to go.

Not into mandatorily using my holster as a safety.

Can't be convinced that striker fired pistols are anything like DA/SA wheel guns as regards administrative handling safety.

Don't like the thought of accidentally leaving a safety engaged on my handgun when I am calling upon it to fire.

Compared to all that, doing DA to SA doubles at the range with my PX4G, so both are in the A zone every time, is comparatively fun and easy.

 

[45_auto]

A manual safety will not prevent EVERY accident. It will prevent SOME.

I agree. It will also cause some. No argument there.

And there is no debating that manual safeties HAVE saved lives

Just as there is no debating that manual safeties HAVE cost people their life. No argument there either.

 

[rickyrick]

I've been around a lot of people, I've learned that people who are convinced that they will fail to do something will fail to do it. People that choose to ignore, will overlook something. People that practice a task, perform it well.
People that understand a concept can adapt to changes and correct mistakes.
Overconfidence and cockiness kills many every day (not only with guns)

 

[Homerboy]

Show me a case where a manual safety caused a death. And I'm not talking about one where the person had no ide how to use it. That's like saying that a guy who can't fly a plane caused the plane to crash when the pilot had a heart attack. For any one you can mange to dig up, I'll find you 50 where one saved a life.