Mandatory knowledge

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"Even if true..."

Are you insinuating that I would deliberately mislead the reader... like Liberals do?

Not at all, that particular phrase was used because I was addressing your failings in logical argument, not taking issue with the facts of the argument. Whether or not your premise is correct, your inference is in doubt and thus your conclusion is invalid.

I take back what I said about your intelligence, I was obviously mistaken. I thought I was on a forum with adults. However, please continue with the irrelevant, incorrect, and pretentious insults. They are amusing.
 
quote:"Pointer, I've got a problem with the way you present your arguments. On the one hand, you say that Bush is at fault for being dishonest, then on the other hand you fault Clinton for being duped."

This is another Liberal method of subject twisting and spinning... If you don't understand something, I said and if you want to, then all you need to do is ask... Don't reinterpret by guessing that I mean something I didn't actually say...

I generally give credit to the reader to understand what I am saying and so I tend to make the mistake of not explaining myself fully... I am a little lazy with that, and I will try to be more careful in the future for your sake...

Pointer, luckily we all have the ability to search THIS VERY THREAD where you make these two statements:
1) About Bush:
At least when we voted for Bush, we were not "Mis-directed by illusions"... We knew what the issues were, and it's all too sad that we (conservatives) were sold out by his treachery...
2) About Clinton:
"Miz" Clinton and all of her fellow liberals voted in favor of it... now they say they were duped... Being so easily duped is hardly a requisite recommend for leadership positions...

Then you rant on about how we SHOULD be in Iraq, that they ARE a threat. How can you hold the view that Bush was treacherous AND right? Ah yes, it's called doublethink. Certainly *I* am to blame for pointing out your inconsistencies.

I'm not reinterpreting anything you are saying. I am not twisting your words. I am not spinning. I am merely saying that you bitch and moan about everything, contradict yourself, and generally come across as a fool. Please, call me a liberal again. That makes about as much sense as the rest of what you are saying.

Oh, and it is dumb to use a book as a reference to why Hillary hates the military in the same thread that you say:
the only prerequisite to being published by the big print media, is "will the book SELL and produce a profit? It doesn't matter if the writing "sux" or if the words are true... just the bottom line counts... Any twit can be published...

It is dumb of you to complain about:
The "in thing" is decided by "feelings" and ever so rarely, by intellectual knowledge or moral understanding.
and then also say that liberals don't feel any guilt. Do they or do they not have feelings?

It is dumb of you to post: "The ever-present and underpinning problem with ignorance... is that everybody recognizes it except the one who suffers from it..." and not realize that everyone is laughing at YOU for not following your own advice.
 
How can you hold the view that Bush was treacherous AND right?
Hey everybody! take note here...
This is exactly what I've been saying about twisting and re-interpreting what someone else has said...

ANSWER... Bush was treacherous in that he masqueraded as a conservative and then he turned on the Conservatives...primarily by ignoring them... and by taking their vote and using it to his own advantage...

He was RIGHT to recognize that tortured Iraqis were in need of help...
Saddam was in need of ousting...
and our nation, and the civilized world, is threatened by the radical fundamentalist Islamic theocratic dictators...

These things were amply stated in the threads from which this propaganga was extracted...
I'm not reinterpreting anything you are saying. I am not twisting your words. I am not spinning. I am merely saying that you bitch and moan about everything, contradict yourself, and generally come across as a fool. Please, call me a liberal again. That makes about as much sense as the rest of what you are saying.
I didn't call you a Liberal...I said your methods of debate are like the methods of a liberal...
I did not CALL you names, nor did I refer to your intelligence, nor your wisdom... or your personal lackings or failings...nor did I say anything about you that could be put in the same bucket with "bitch and moan" or "dumb" or "fool". I didn't even call you a hypocrite...

Even if it were true I don't think it would be necessary... it would speak for itself... :rolleyes:

"Never argue with a fool; he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
I wonder who "everyone" is really laughing at... I think perhaps they are more gentlemanly than to lower themselves to that sort of thing... and might more likely express personal feelings in a discreet PM.

...luckily we all have the ability to search THIS VERY THREAD
Perhaps we all don't have the ability... you've missed a great deal that would have made your harsh JUDGEMENTS seem more reasonable...
"The ever-present and underpinning problem with ignorance... is that everybody recognizes it except the one who suffers from it..." and not realize that everyone is laughing at YOU for not following your own advice.
Your kindness and understanding and your flowing abundance of wisdom is overwelming...
Did you take a poll to that effect?

I'm sure glad you're not an insensitive ass inclined to taking people's words to great leaps from the subject context in which they were originally stated...
That would make you look really bad... and I'm glad there is no "insensitive ass" laughing at you... Good thing you don't have to worry about that...
"The ever-present and underpinning problem with ignorance... is that everybody recognizes it except the one who suffers from it... and the underpinning of a gentleman's conduct is that he attempts to abolish ignorance in a subtle manner so as to accomplish more good than harm."

Oh how I despise a bully...
 
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Lord_Nikon
Pointer: I don't get it, the only point I made that you rebutted was that she isn't anti-military.
Are you complaining? ;) :)

OK looky here...

Point 1
She's a leftist - you agreed and there was nothing to rebut.

Point 2
She's not anti-military - I rebutted and gave a very good reference.

Point 3
She will "cut and run" - You supported her in that, and I rebutted.

Point 4
She was duped - I agreed with your listing additional "dupes"... rebuttal was unecessary.

Point 5
FBI files on her political enemies - you agreed it was shady and rebuttal was unecessary.

Point 6
Married to "Slick Willey" - it was sarcasm (joke) and rebuttal was unecessary.

Except in that "guilt by association" was not an accurate appraisal... she is "guilty" because she was the dominatrix behind his office while Monica was the plaything under his desk...

She is "guilty" because she was going to divorce Bill until he decided to run for President... and then she stuck around and changed her name from Rodham to Rodham-Clinton and then again to just Clinton...

She is "guilty" because even when he was caught philandering in the public eye... she didn't have the integrity to dump him even then, because staying married to him was more profitable and provided a bridge to power and her own bid for the White House...

The White House Staff members tell horrrendous stories of her screeching and screaming at President Clinton IN FRONT OF THE STAFF... and generally abusing everyone within reach of her voice... there is ample record of this in a number of different places... and the book Dereliction Of Duty is one of them...

I am inclined to put a great deal of stock in personal reports from individuals who have had to work with "Shrillary" in close proximity... :eek:
 
ANSWER... Bush was treacherous in that he masqueraded as a conservative and then he turned on the Conservatives...primarily by ignoring them... and by taking their vote and using it to his own advantage...

Could you please provide specifics? I don't want to reply until I completely understand your rationale. I incorrectly assumed that when you use such a word as TREACHERY, you indicate you have very strong feelings. I assume you don't throw words like that around lightly.

"The ever-present and underpinning problem with ignorance... is that everybody recognizes it except the one who suffers from it... and the underpinning of a gentleman's conduct is that he attempts to abolish ignorance in a subtle manner so as to accomplish more good than harm."
Oh how I despise a bully...

It's funny that you are so defensive when I used such words as "bitch and moan", and "dumb". It's almost as if they were loaded words. Kinda like the way you use "dominatrix", "Gore-blunder", "old money", "wannabe", "cut and run", "Shrillary" as loaded words and phrases. If you can dish it out (lord, looking back it is just about EVERY post or yours) you need to learn to take it. Now that that point has been made, I'll leave it at that.


I did not CALL you names, nor did I refer to your intelligence, nor your wisdom... or your personal lackings or failings

Actually you did. You did it in your usual backhanded way. Specifically:
I generally give credit to the reader to understand what I am saying and so I tend to make the mistake of not explaining myself fully... I am a little lazy with that, and I will try to be more careful in the future for your sake...

I obviously took a more direct approach.:D
My point in participating in this thread at all (as the original post seems to have been ignored) is that I saw post after post of yours using ad hominem attacks against politicians, when you could make better arguments and make a difference.

Also, putting RANDOM words IN color and capitalized IS really ANNOYING and distracting to the reader.
 
...he turned on the Conservatives...primarily by ignoring them... and by taking their vote and using it to his own advantage...
That should be enough explanation... but...
The Conservative vote was what got him in the Presidency...
The Conservatives supported his move on Saddam's Regime...
The Conservatives supported his war on terrorism...
The Conservatives rightly thought there was about to be a turn around and that the nation might start swinging away from the LEFT...
The Conservatives thought he would speak like a Conservative but he didn't even try to speak TO the Conservatives...

Milk toast :mad:

In every case listed... he was a dismal failure and it was because of his masquerade as a Conservative...

As a Moderate (At Best) he was simply not of a mindset that could accomplish what he set out to do... He even diddled around with the MUCH HATED UN instead of "gittin' 'er done".

Like "shooting just to wound", his Daddy thought a kick in the pants was enough for Saddam, and then the son thought another half-fast effort would be sufficient.

He should have razed (to the ground) every stronghold of Baathists and Terrorists and any other enemies of the Iraqi people... thus weakening them so much that they could not mount or supply another offensive.
Remember the TET?

He was never decisive enough to go full bore and "Git 'er Done"
It's funny that you are so defensive when I used such words as "bitch and moan", and "dumb". It's almost as if they were loaded words. Kinda like the way you use "dominatrix", "Gore-blunder", "old money", "wannabe", "cut and run", "Shrillary" as loaded words and phrases. If you can dish it out (lord, looking back it is just about EVERY post or yours) you need to learn to take it. Now that that point has been made, I'll leave it at that.
I did not direct my comments at you... but about public figures... But then you don't want to see the difference...
I was not defensive... I took the offensive in exposing what you had done...
If you can dish it out (lord, looking back it is just about EVERY post or yours) you need to learn to take it. Now that that point has been made, I'll leave it at that.
How thoughtful and condescending of you... to leave it at that...
I can take ANYTHING said about public figures... IF it is said by a gentleman... or a lady...
I generally give credit to the reader to understand what I am saying and so I tend to make the mistake of not explaining myself fully... I am a little lazy with that, and I will try to be more careful in the future for your sake...or anyone elses...
The fact that you take this as a personal attack says a lot...
It seems you don't really want explanation and clarification after all...
HOWEVER, by way of clarification... the first part was an apologetic explanation and the last part, a very little tongue-in-cheek "dig" to which I believe you have over reacted. Kind of like this last from you...
...putting RANDOM words IN color and capitalized IS really ANNOYING and distracting to the reader.

And now, "I will leave it at that."
 
The answer to the question of this thread. No, there shouldn't be an IQ test for those who wish to vote or run for office. The way that this thread has descended into personal attacks and other childish articulations shows why intelligence alone is a poor answer to the topic in question. We all seem to have more than a modicum of intellect, yet we find many acting as myrmidons.

It is entertaining though. Dance on. :rolleyes:
 
My point about the loaded words and name calling you use is that it is not honest. There are plenty of legitimate beefs to address rather than "Hillary has a big ass" or some such red herring.

The Conservative vote was what got him in the Presidency...
The Conservatives supported his move on Saddam's Regime...
The Conservatives supported his war on terrorism...
The Conservatives rightly thought there was about to be a turn around and that the nation might start swinging away from the LEFT...
The Conservatives thought he would speak like a Conservative but he didn't even try to speak TO the Conservatives...
I admit I am confused by your response. These are all things that conservatives and Bush support in absolute lockstep. You also forgot about all of the judges appointments made, signing statements, etc that pushed the conservative agenda.

I have yet to see where in a situation where liberals and conservatives disagree, Bush has fallen on the liberal side. Not a single issue. I wouldn't call him a moderate at all, where one would see some kind of position in the middle.

In every case listed... he was a dismal failure and it was because of his masquerade as a Conservative...

He's president (as opposed to Gore/Kerry)
He deposed and executed Saddam
He is so committed to the war on terror that it doesn't care how much it costs, he doesn't care that the military budget is such a mess that it is impossible to tell congress where the money is going.
How can he be at fault for which way the country swings (left or right)? His actions on traditional conservative values.
As a Moderate (At Best) he was simply not of a mindset that could accomplish what he set out to do... He even diddled around with the MUCH HATED UN instead of "gittin' 'er done".

Like "shooting just to wound", his Daddy thought a kick in the pants was enough for Saddam, and then the son thought another half-fast effort would be sufficient.

So your real complaint and justification for the use of the word treachery is that he didn't turn the middle-east into a glass parking lot? I know why I would use the word, still trying to figure out why you are.

I would think such things such as sending soldiers into a war zone with inadequate body armor, with under-armored humvees, while putting the cost of the war outside of the budget, and without an exit strategy would raise your ire more. Then there is the nepotism, too. Jack Abramoff showed a heck of a lot we all should be pissed about.

Who cares that Bush "diddled" with the U.N. It's not like they had Colin Powell go up there and tell the truth! What, that delayed things like 3 months and COULD have swayed world opinion over to our side. That a reasonable risk / reward scenario and doesn't have anything to do with conservatism.

It has ONLY been since the November election that ANY conservative voices have even thought to consider thinking that Bush hasn't done exactly as they asked. Where have these voices been?

And, to sum up nicely to the thread topic, are these the type of people that should be voters? (ok, totally joking, tipping my hat to the prior post of childish insults)

Maybe I'm a cynic for assuming that all politicians are corrupt to some level and need oversight at all times. Nobody gets a free pass.
 
It has ONLY been since the November election that ANY conservative voices have even thought to consider thinking that Bush hasn't done exactly as they asked. Where have these voices been?
Bull-oney...

I have been, and many of my fellows have been, openly dissappointed in his performance for quite sometime... years before the "November election"...
even the national polls evidence that fact.
 
And I thank you for voicing that well justified dissent. You weren't exactly on CNN or Meet the Press, though. . . .

There has been a deafening lack of debate on the side of the GOP in implementing Bush's policies. The same words used by Rice and Cheney were consistently repeated on the house and senate floor.

Criticism like http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6708495/ are few and far between, and even then, while having no confidence in Rumsfeld, showed full support of the President.

And the polls should mean something, even when it isn't November!
 
From soreloser algore
During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

from http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239800&page=2 post #43
It was also a horrible analogy because Gore never really claimed to do anything but fund and advocate for the internet.


We can all read what algore said. We don’t need you to try and reinterpret or revise it for us.

You remind me of Richard Pryor in one of his routines. He describes how his wife caught him with another woman. Richard insisted that he wasn’t having an affair. His wife insisted of course he was, she could see him with her own eyes. His reply: “Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes ?”

Who am I going to believe, you and your fancy dancing, or the very unambiguous quote from algore that I can read for myself ?
 
dude, it was a gaff in the words. of course he wasn't claiming to have actually created it...do we really want to turn this into a pissing contest about politician misspeaks? because I assure you there's a LOT more ammunition available on the guy that beat him :p

but let's not misunderestimate him ^_^
 
dude, it was a gaff in the words. of course he wasn't claiming to have actually created it.
During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

Like I said, skip the double-speak, comrade ! I can read for myself what he said !

because I assure you there's a LOT more ammunition available on the guy that beat him.
Nothing to compare to burning children in a compound, like the guy who preceded him.
 
"Liberal is not, in my opinion, a dirty word. I don't believe that someone is terrible because they consider themselves liberal. Such judgment based on labeling is the same tactic used by gun control advocates, regardless of political leanings."

Thank you very much!



I still fail to see how disapproving of a certain policy by a Govt makes one un-patriotic. Most of us have forefathers that were so fed up with a Govt trying to control them that they left their country of origin to try to form " a more perfect union". Civil dissent is in our blood. We are rebels by birth.


Am I against this War? NO.

Am I against the way it was(is) handled? An unequivocol YES. The justification and reasoning given to us by our GoVt was mis-leading at best.

Had they simply said that we would invade and dispose a certain heinous tyrrant who has committed mass injustices; I think their would be alot less complaints all around. As Ive said before; Its not what one does, but how and why one does it.

Personally I think it was a logistical mess from the get-go; but I won't go into that.

I wonder if the founding fathers would agree with the extremist Con/Rep.'s veiw of Lib.'s/Dem's. ( and vice-versa for that matter) I think not. But thats one reason that makes this country so great; We have the freedom to agree or disagree.

I say dare to think for yourself; because ultimately, IMO, there is no singular "right" view. What may be true for one may not be for another.

My family still continues to serve this country in the Military and in L.E. capacities since the Civil War. So to anyone who may defame us because we would be considerd Lib/Dem.:

You obviously have little to no understanding of what it is to be a true patriotic citizen. IMO, what is unpatriotic, is trying to force a certain view on another as "the truth".
 
Like I said, skip the double-speak, comrade ! I can read for myself what he said !
Seriously? Is that all you can do? Seriously?

You can read for yourself but I don't know if you're comprehending it. Nor if you're comprehending the fact that sometimes people word things improperly. If I were to say I upgraded the Z28 sitting in my garage to be a street legal race car, that would be accurate. But I don't, I say "I built that car" even though I didn't actually assemble the frame from the ground up.

And your next line is hi-freakin-larious...instead of rebutting the original line and staying on the subject of bad public speaking you walk out to left field. :D Bravo, make the conservatives proud! And y'all claim the liberals dance around issues, that was krumping like I've never seen before. :p
 
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exactly my point. Thank you for proving it.

Invent connotes the birth of an idea while create is the implementation.

In this case there was a bit of implementation aided by initiatives from Gore that turned the ARPANet into the Internet.
 
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