Made in China???

Did you brush your teeth with the poison toothpaste they sent over here, or did you eat the food with we imported that was full of bacteria? They have very poor standards, and if you want to lower yours , and consume their products, then be my guest.
 
If a nation depends on you for 90% of their daily consumer goods how could they ever afford to oppose you in an armed struggle without destroying their own economy?
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Works both ways.

WildifwearegonewhowillbuytheirsneakersAlaska
 
Did you brush your teeth with the poison toothpaste they sent over here, or did you eat the food with we imported that was full of bacteria? They have very poor standards, and if you want to lower yours , and consume their products, then be my guest.
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Did you eat the veggies from california that killed those people last summer, or the strawberries from Washington state that were tainted? Did you buy an American sedan in the mid 80's?

Bad products are not limited to the Asian market. Just as good ones are not limited to the American made products. I suppose Hondas and Toyotas are poor quality vehicles.
 
The bottom line is, if the products produced in foriegn countries weren't worth what they cost, people wouldn't buy them.
 
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When I was younger, being "made in Japan" was equated with being junk, and much of it was. Today, the label is looked at as a premium. Some people go so far as to worry about which model of Toyota is made in Japan and which comes from Marysville, Ohio.

I was all gung-ho, only buy USA-made firearms until I bought a SKB (Japan) side-by-side double shotgun. It was rather expensive, but not nearly as high as the European-made doubles. Quality-wise, I'll stack the SKB up against just about anything. I've since added another SKB to my stable.

Maybe the Chinese will come around in terms of quality some day. I just bought a Chinese-made knife for $3 that seems surprisingly well made. It's just something for using around the yard, opening boxes, etc., stuff that I don't want to waste my Gerber hunting knife on. Time will tell if my $3 was well spent. Usually the grade of stainless steel is the first thing that gets cheated on. I'l have to wait and see how long before it rusts.
 
You could open up all the factories in the US again, fill them with people and stop all Chinese imports. It might effectively cut your income by 1/3 to make up the difference in price. SOme things would stay the same probably. Alot of stuff would really go up. Cost of your wardrobe would double. Your cellphone might cost you 3-400$ up front with the contract. I have alot of guns and two are Chinese SKS. For the money they are alot of gun. Well for what they cost before the supply dried up. They used to be 100$ and now at least 250$ from some sellers. No one would pay that if everyone thought they were junk. Put a really good Chinese next to a Russian or Yugo SKS and you won't see much difference except price. This cat is out of the bag and if China cut us off, we might be walking around barefoot and half naked for awhile. Till the 90$ US shoes and 5$ tee shirts come back. Along with 50$ generic jeans.
 
And we benefit from that every single day with lower prices on the consumer goods we purchase.
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It may seem that way but in time our trade with China will be a major mistake.

Greed is our worse enemy.
 
China

William Jesse Magnum said:
Made in China???
what if your favorite pistol/revolver (S&W, Colt, Glock, HK, Steyr, Springfield, Kimber, Para-Ordnance, Ruger, Walther, etc etc. )manufacturer in the USA / Germany / Austria, etc suddenly took a detour and had their firearms be built in China?

(no offense to the people of China.. this is purely an honest curious question about Manufacturing companies who have chosen to give-up pride, dignity and legacy of their company for profit)
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1. re: Chinese guns
due to US import regulation, it's probably not possible to import most centerfire non-sporting guns from China, but according to our Canadian brethren, latest generation of Chinese made guns are excellent! Latest generaton of Norinco/Polytech M14S priced to be b/w $300-$400 USD is supposed to be a much better buy than US made Springfield Armory Inc. M1A which cost several times that of Chinese made copy. It appears that they have fixed the earlier problems with soft bolt and out-of-spec parts.

IMHO, stamped AK receivers made by DCI and sold by NoDakSpud are probably the best stamped AK receivers on the market right now. Couple of months ago, I asked a local Class 2 manufacturer and engineering consultant how much the receiver would cost if there was no import regulation and it was to be made in China according to strict spec. In his estimate, the actual manufacturing cost for stamped Chinese receivers would be couple of dollars or even less.

2. Chinese junk products
BTW, it's possible to have products with poor quality from China. It's also possible to have very high quality products from China. It all depends on manufacturing specification that is used. Enforcement of manufacturing specification is done via reputation and choices....manufacturing business in China is very competitive. If one manufacturer fails to satisfy the specs, they lose future business with that customer.

3. mixing countries and product quality
I wouldn't mix countries with product quality. For example, Nikon have set up optics plant in Thailand. In order to ensure high quality, they have created and enforced rigorous product QA protocol. Incidentally, there are low quality and high quality Japanese optics...it all depends on product specification. At one point, "Made in Japan" meant cheap, low quality stuff. Today, it's synonymous with high quality, especially in the area of automobiles and electronics.

BTW, KIA and Hyundai cars are rising in product quality today.

4. state of Chinese manufacturing technology
You have to remember now that China now has its own space program as well as its own domestically designed and produced nuclear submarines and ballistic missiles. Also, corporations from various developed countries(US/Europe/Japan) have spent huge amount of money transferring technological and manufacturing know-how to China in the process of setting up highly efficient and modern manufacturing plants.

5. Productivity issue
US have a very high per capita GDP while China still has a relatively low per capita GDP. The amount of productivity based on farming and manufacturing is limited compared to information and services oriented economy.

If Chinese or anybody else can do the equivalent task cheaper than us, it's actually more productive to do so.

Incidentally, China itself is facing competition from other emerging market countries. Why? Wages are rising due to rising living standard. Now, countries which are even poorer than China can do manufacturing for even less.

6. GREAT BOOK on understanding the benefit of free trade:
THE CHOICE by Roberts

7. good article on Chinese economy
interesting BusinessWeek article on Chinese economy and the problems it has
Broken China
 
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not a beating

wingman said:
Quote:
GREAT BOOK on understanding the benefit of free trade:

There you go all we need is a good book to explain how we are taking
a beating. I will read that immediately.
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not a beating. If I can design and manufacture a cellphone in US for $100(unit price), and sell it for $150, I made a 50% profit. If I can design the same cell phone in US and manufacture it in China for $50/each, but still sell it for $150, I made a 200% profit.

200% profit always beat 50% profit in my book.

Self-reliance is a path to poverty...look at North Korea.
 
not a beating. If I can design and manufacture a cellphone in US for $100(unit price), and sell it for $150, I made a 50% profit. If I can design the same cell phone in US and manufacture it in China for $50/each, but still sell it for $150, I made a 200% profit.

200% profit always beat 50% profit in my book.

Self-reliance is a path to poverty...look at North Korea.
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And if that communist regime ever decides to pull the plug on us...

I've never thought it wise to consider someone your friend even if they're feeding you a gourmet feast...if they're holding a gun to your head while you're eating.

Our very life depends on China selling us cheap crap. They have us by a grip on a sensitive bit of anatomy, and can squeeze painfully anytime they wish.

And they know it.
 
not a beating. If I can design and manufacture a cellphone in US for $100(unit price), and sell it for $150, I made a 50% profit. If I can design the same cell phone in US and manufacture it in China for $50/each, but still sell it for $150, I made a 200% profit.
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But who does that extra 150% profit benefit?

Does it go to the workers? No, it does not.

It goes to the very small minority that own the companies and it does not benefit the country as a whole. Trickle down economics have been proven to be, as G. H. Bush said, "voodoo economics." If someone that makes 5 million a year gets an increase of an aditional 5 million a year they do not increase their expeditures since they were already living a lavish lifestyle. they simply hoard that money. usually in off seas or tax sheltered accounts.

So, economincally speaking it is much better for the country for that cell phone to be sold at a 50% profit with the other 150% of potential profit going to workers, shipping, marketing, etc. This gradual shift from a "fair profit and a stable workforce" mentality this country used to have to the current "higher bottom line and disposable workforce" mentality is destroying our way of life. It is contributing to a gradual move from a large middle class republic to a ruling class and worker class oligarchy.

PS: You should state it as an item that cost $50 to produce and is sold at $200 creates a 400% return...of which 75% is profit. My accountant says it looks better on tax forms that way. :D
 
Our very life depends on China selling us cheap crap. They have us by a grip on a sensitive bit of anatomy, and can squeeze painfully anytime they wish.

And they know it.
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While sloganeering and sound bites are o so cool, they never tell the whole story, vis:

Our very life depends on China selling us cheap crap. They have us by a grip on a sensitive bit of anatomy, and can squeeze painfully anytime they wish. And they know it.
On the other hand Chinas very life depends on us buying their cheap crap. We have them by a grip on a sensitive bit of anatomy, and can squeeze painfully anytime we wish.

And they know it.

WildbutheytheproofisinthepuddinAlaska

PS Class, you do see that one follows the other dont ya?
 
Manedwolf, competitive advantage is not unique

Manedwolf said:
And if that communist regime ever decides to pull the plug on us...

I've never thought it wise to consider someone your friend even if they're feeding you a gourmet feast...if they're holding a gun to your head while you're eating.

Our very life depends on China selling us cheap crap. They have us by a grip on a sensitive bit of anatomy, and can squeeze painfully anytime they wish.

And they know it.
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Due to increasing globalization that started more than a century ago, it's practically impossible to maintain a monopoly on any kind of competitive advantage.

China itself is starting to struggle against other upcoming manufacturing countries which can do it for less. And this struggle for Chinese will grow worse, not less, for the simple fact as their GDP grows faster, their living standard rises and wages go up. Rising wages for Chinese workers means workers in other countries can do it for less.

BTW, trade b/w enemies is not new. With increasing globalization, using trade monopoly as a weapon becomes increasingly impractical.

US used to be the dominant manufacturer of memory chips...now it's spreading to various emerging market countries while design and product specifications are still driven by companies in developed market.

Look at Singapore....how prosperous it is w/o it being a manufacturing economy.
 
Playboypenguin, re:post#33

Playboypenguin said:
Does it go to the workers? No, it does not.

It goes to the very small minority that own the companies and it does not benefit the country as a whole. Trickle down economics have been proven to be, as G. H. Bush said, "voodoo economics." If someone that makes 5 million a year gets an increase of an aditional 5 million a year they do not increase their expeditures since they were already living a lavish lifestyle. they simply hoard that money. usually in off seas or tax sheltered accounts.

So, economincally speaking it is much better for the country for that cell phone to be sold at a 50% profit with the other 150% of potential profit going to workers, shipping, marketing, etc. This gradual shift from a "fair profit and a stable workforce" mentality this country used to have to the current "higher bottom line and disposable workforce" mentality is destroying our way of life. It is contributing to a gradual move from a large middle class republic to a ruling class and worker class oligarchy.
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What you are speaking of most often happens in emerging market, not U.S. It happens when capital investment (which creates jobs) is not adequate. So too many workers end up chasing inadequate supply of jobs. It also happens when firms collude with the government in forcing unfair labor contract (fairness is not determined by wages but by lack of transparency in the contract).

Even in China, result of economic growth has resulted in increased demand for workers. This has resulted in upward pressure on wages due to increased demand for workers and rising living standard (rising per capita GDP).

There is nothing preventing you from increasing your knowledge and work skill, or starting a new business.

There is nothing preventing any worker in United States from switching to another employer for higher pay or better benefits or starting his own company or engaging in any other kind of investment.

Job mobility is one of the factors of economic growth.

Most of the millionaires in United States started their own small business and/or lived below their means, putting their money in appreciating asset(small business, stocks, bonds). Source: The Millionaire Next Door by Stanley/Danko. There is nothing preventing anybody in U.S. from doing the same.

Except ourselves.
 
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what if your favorite pistol/revolver (S&W, Colt, Glock, HK, Steyr, Springfield, Kimber, Para-Ordnance, Ruger, Walther, etc etc. )manufacturer in the USA / Germany / Austria, etc suddenly took a detour and had their firearms be built in China?

(no offense to the people of China.. this is purely an honest curious question about Manufacturing companies who have chosen to give-up pride, dignity and legacy of their company for profit)

Happy & Safe Shooting to all!
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A few years ago an M14 replica was in fact made in China. While not all of it was up to M1A standards, the receiver was in fact a forged piece that was better than the M1A made at the time, don't know if the M1A has improved today.

They sold for less than $600.00 if memory serves, and all GI parts could be installed. I think the AWB stopped them, and they've never returned.

My point being, that I'd not reject a Chinese made firearm out of hand.
 
American Market.

Greed is our worse enemy.
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Very true. No one is feeling that more than American ammo makers. Prices recently have helped Russian Bear, Prvi Partisan, and S&B line the proverbial pockets.

I beleive in American products, and American workers. However, American business ethics get worse quite literally by the day. It could be argued that, while the rate of pay may be higher, the percentage of $$ going to most employees is not THAT MUCH better than their 3rd world counterparts. Depends on the industry of course, but especially so when it comes to household goods.

As far as the original question, I try to stick with American firearms. I beleive, and feel pretty confident in this, that Americans just know guns. That doesn't mean that I won't buy surplus, C&R, or modern guns made in other countries if they fit my needs/wants, just means I'll shop the American market first.

I really try to give the "Buy American" campaign a chance, but sometimes it doesn't work out.
 
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