M&P 9 with full APEX trigger joband night sights or HK VP9?

[TunnelRat]

I still have yet to lay my hands on a real VP9

And yet somehow...

however, I do believe that the VP9 may turn out to be a handgun built by a company that is becoming content with riding on its laurels and selling based on its reputation. a lot of the fit/finish areas, do no reflect what many think of when they think HK. in addition some parts are pinned in place where other manufacturers mold them in with the plastic. personally, I think this is the first sign of HK moving to cheaper manufacturing processes. I would rather not be one of their guinea pigs, I'd take the S&W.

The ones I've handled seem every bit as fit and finished as my P2000 and sk, HK45c, USPs, etc. As for pins, HK has always loved roll pins and they're everywhere in previous models. I'm not sure how one can come to these conclusions without any hands on experience.

 

[tahunua001]

as I said, lots of hearsay and educated guessing. I've seen a lot of pictures, many HD, and read probably close to a dozen reviews. the treatment on the slide is so thin you can still see the tool marks, just look at the one posted on the first page of this thread, you can see the striations in the slide. you can not tell me that the finish on these pistols is as durable as the melonite/nitride finish on glocks, XDs, or S&Ws. the insides of the slides often comtain circular tool marks as well. this is purely aesthetic as they don't affect function but it's still something that most other companies work out of their handguns even though it's out of sight. the fact that HK seems to think that since this gun is selling cheaper they shouldn't have to clean up the inner workings seems a little bit pretentious and lazy to me.

I'm not saying that the VP9 is not a good pistol, I'm saying that HK cut a lot of corners in the production of this just to get it down to the same price bracket as most service type pistols.

 

[Uncle Malice]

the treatment on the slide is so thin you can still see the tool marks, just look at the one posted on the first page of this thread, you can see the striations in the slide.

Oddly enough, we just had a thread about this over on HKPRO. These lateral lines exist on HK45's, P30's, USP's, and P2000's as well.

you can not tell me that the finish on these pistols is as durable as the melonite/nitride finish on glocks, XDs, or S&Ws.

I can. I am.

the insides of the slides often comtain circular tool marks as well. this is purely aesthetic as they don't affect function but it's still something that most other companies work out of their handguns even though it's out of sight. the fact that HK seems to think that since this gun is selling cheaper they shouldn't have to clean up the inner workings seems a little bit pretentious and lazy to me.

I would like to know exactly what you're referring to here. The inside of my VP9 slide is beautifully smooth. Meanwhile, my AG(2006) USP 45 does have some circular machining marks on the underside of the slide. I'll post pics in a couple of minutes.

lots of hearsay

You're telling me...

 

[Uncle Malice]

USP 45 on left. VP9 on right.

VP9 on left. USP 45 on right.

 

[TunnelRat]

the treatment on the slide is so thin you can still see the tool marks, just look at the one posted on the first page of this thread, you can see the striations in the slide. you can not tell me that the finish on these pistols is as durable as the melonite/nitride finish on glocks, XDs, or S&Ws.

The striations from the milling? Every HK I have ever owned has had them. It's the same Hostile Environment finish as on all current production HKs. The surface coating has always been basically a black oxide. The chemical treatment that permeates the metal is the real protection.

 

[marine6680]

Looking at the VP9 slide... and my recent cleaning and work on my P320...

I was pondering earlier at the amount of material removed from the P320 slide, in areas that it was not for function. Areas that are smooth on other pistols have channels milled into them. Sometimes parallel channels, which I guess is to leave material in between the cuts to increase strength. Seemed an effort to lower slide weight.

Its all well and good, but the amount removed and all the channels and angles made cleaning more of a pain. It was like the pistol was full of slide rails, where grit and old grease/oil would collect.

The quality of the machining was very good though.

 

[TunnelRat]

I was pondering earlier at the amount of material removed from the P320 slide, in areas that it was not for function. Areas that are smooth on other pistols have channels milled into them. Sometimes parallel channels, which I guess is to leave material in between the cuts to increase strength. Seemed an effort to lower slide weight.

Its all well and good, but the amount removed and all the channels and angles made cleaning more of a pain. It was like the pistol was full of slide rails, where grit and old grease/oil would collect.

The quality of the machining was very good though.

Agreed on all fronts. The machining is good, there is just an awful lot of it. Cleaning it is not something I look forward to.