Long range distance for self defense

We had a cop in Rochester NY respond to a call at something AM. Old man answered the door holding an unloaded 22 rifle. Ended up cop shot 17 rounds from 30 yards with a Glock 30 (45 acp). He did hit the guy. He had no idea the gun was unloaded.

If you don't shoot at long distances, you will not be able to hit at long distance.

"Its just a belly gun, I don't need sights" BS!

My wife and I both shoot hunters silhouette with hand guns. I have seen my son drop 3 out of 5 rams at 100 yards with my 45. I use an iron sight revolver and scoped TC contender. It can be done with practice.

I think some folks claim 7 yards because that is as far as they practice or as far as they can hit well. "Good enough"


David
 
totaldla said:
Exactly.

Real self-defense is dinner table distance.

Imaginary self-defense, (which is more fun for mall ninjas to talk about on forums), is anyone's guess.
Click to expand...
I agree. My view of shooting at some imagined threat at more than likely short range is that if I were to engage a shooter at distance (El Paso, Dayton, etc.), and I should miss (more than likely), he would be encouraged to return fire increasing the possibility of hitting someone in my direction. Therefore, despite the fact that I shoot 96 rounds everyday, carry concealed, I would not engage a threat that is not "in my face". I have no illusion that I am not Annie Oakley reincarnated.
 
David R said:
We had a cop in Rochester NY respond to a call at something AM. Old man answered the door holding an unloaded 22 rifle. Ended up cop shot 17 rounds from 30 yards with a Glock 30 (45 acp). He did hit the guy. He had no idea the gun was unloaded.

If you don't shoot at long distances, you will not be able to hit at long distance.

"Its just a belly gun, I don't need sights" BS!

My wife and I both shoot hunters silhouette with hand guns. I have seen my son drop 3 out of 5 rams at 100 yards with my 45. I use an iron sight revolver and scoped TC contender. It can be done with practice.

I think some folks claim 7 yards because that is as far as they practice or as far as they can hit well. "Good enough"


David
Click to expand...
Do you normally conceal carry a TC Contender?

In my younger days I routinely shot 200 yard shots at boulder sized Xs with long barrelled revolvers for fun with friends.

I can shoot a 6 inch plate at 25 yards at one round per second all day with a .22 pistol or full size pistol with good sights.

I cannot do the same with a shorter barrel carry pistol. And thats not under any stress.
Maybe others can.
 
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107212&d=1521811807

I can keep all my shots on a 50 yard replacement center B6C using the CT laser grips with my Micro 9 resting. Same for my Officers ACP using sights or CT laser grips off hand. I shot Bullseye with a 4" Springfield RO Champion 9mm last sunday and did quite well. That is 50 and 25 yards one hand. I scored a 97 timed fire. 10 shots 25 yards. The 10 ring is 3 3/8"

No I do not conceal a contender. :) I usually carry one of the above.

I doubt I will ever even need to fire my concealed weapon. BUT if I do, I will have confidence from a lot of practice.

David
 
Last edited:
David R said:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107212&d=1521811807

I can keep all my shots on a 50 yard replacement center B6C using the CT laser grips with my Micro 9 resting. Same for my Officers ACP using sights or CT laser grips off hand. I shot Bullseye with a 4" Springfield RO Champion 9mm last sunday and did quite well. That is 50 and 25 yards one hand. I scored a 97 timed fire. 10 shots 25 yards. The 10 ring is 3 3/8"

No I do not conceal a contender. :) I usually carry one of the above.

I doubt I will ever even need to fire my concealed weapon. BUT if I do, I will have confidence from a lot of practice.

David
Click to expand...
Thats some awfully fine shooting there. You get an honorary Tex for that!
 
I have always believed in "overtraining"-learning to shoot at farther distance makes nearby ones easier. I recall one top firearms instructor who emphasized to his students the importance of grouping, IIRC he would make them shoot at a target of black target patches that was 2"x2".
 
For years I have always practice shooting my 1911 at 50 and a hundred yards and folks always reply that the gun is not a match for a rifle. I know it is not a match for a rifle, but my reply is would you rather be closer to the person shooting a rifle in a mall or farther. I plan to never get into a shooting scenario with a person carrying an AR15 or rifle, but if my plans fail me which happens on occasion I am very well prepared to shoot at various distances up to a 100 yards with my side arm. Normally and consistently I can hit 5 out of 7 shots into a paper plate at 100 yards. Still working on getting all seven.
 
I live in South Ga. I agree most situations should occur from contact to 7 yards but I cant guarantee that. I enjoy shooting from contact to 25+ yards with everything from full-size to J frame. I am sure most people who can defend themselves from 0-7 yards are well protected. They are better off than the guy with the pistol he buys, loads, shoots a mag at most sticks in a holster and feels safe forever just because he has a gun.
 
I shoot slow fire and low rate fire at 75 yards with all my handguns. I do that not because I ever expect to be in a situation I need to do that as such a situation would be so exceedingly rare it boarders on impossible. I do that for the same reason I shoot my bow at 93 yards in practice. Simply, every mistake I make is radically amplified. Get good at 75 and 7.5 is gravy.

By the way, I shoot that bow at 93 yards because that is the range the tip of the arrow becomes the aiming spot. It means my draw and anchor has to be perfect.
 
Nanuk said:
I remember reading somewhere during my PPC days (1980's) that @ 50 yards sight errors are magnified 768 times. I don't know if it was true or not.
Click to expand...
It's basic geometry.

Say your pistol has a 6" sight radius. At a distance of one foot, any sight error would be magnified by a factor of 2. One yard is three feet, so at one yard the error is 3 x 2 = 6. At 50 yards, the error is 6 x 50 = 300.

If your sight radius is 4 inches, then the one foot error is 3x. One yard is 3 x 3 = 9. 50 yards is 9 x 50 = 450.

If your sight radius is 3 inches, then the one foot error is 4x. One yard is 3 x 4 = 12. 50 yards is 12 x 50 = 600.
 
This theroy of geometry as it relates to pistol shooting is only correct for errors in sight alignment, not sight picture.

A perfect sight alignment, i.e. front sight perfectly centered in the rear sight notch doesn't matter if it's 3 inch barrel or 8 inch barrel. Perfect is perfect. The only advantage is that the longer barrel HELPS the shooter to gain a more perfect sight alignment.

Because the front sight to rear sight is a geometric error (trianglular error), then the above premise is correct.
But if the sights are perfectly aligned and error is from the sight picture, than it's a parallel difference, not a geometric and the error is much smaller at longer distances.

That is why focus on the front sight is the mantra. Sight alignment is more important than sight picture.

A longer barrel pistol can actually cause a shooter to shoot worse at longer distances, because as the sight alignment is more noticeable, the shooter might have a tendency to "snatch" the shot and jerk the trigger at the perfect moment. A shorter barrel can help in confidence and help the shooter to let the shot off even if the SIGHT PICTURE is not perfect.
 
I think Federal Law Enforcement (and the bulk of state and municipal law enforcement) ranges are correct. 25 yards is about as far away as most stressed people have any chance of reasonable accuracy without further endangering the public. I think the idea of qualifying annually at the Federal Standard is a good idea for most shooters.
 
I think Federal Law Enforcement (and the bulk of state and municipal law enforcement) ranges are correct. 25 yards is about as far away as most stressed people have any chance of reasonable accuracy without further endangering the public. I think the idea of qualifying annually at the Federal Standard is a good idea for most shooters.
Click to expand...

...without significantly increasing the $$ and time spent on training.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
...without significantly increasing the $$ and time spent on training.
Click to expand...
Exactly. 20 minutes and a box of ammo for most people and they are done.

If you are ever sitting in court and the prosecutor wants to know to what standard you trained when you were practicing you can tell him truthfully; "the same as the BATFE".

With a revolver it will be a bit tougher to make some of the time hacks for some people but it is achievable by most anyone in good health.
 
From what I've gleaned in reading all the various
responses, a good percentage of posters are
well-trained shootists.

I would rely on them to save my bacon
at 50 to 200 yards with whatever they
are carrying the day the baddie is afoot
and they are there to pick them off.
 
I guess a dozen years ago there was a feud going on between two families here in mcdonald county. At least I think that it was mcdonald, everything about that place is nuts.

This feud went on for years. Police, search lights, vandalism, etc. Just neighborhood squabbles that are absolutely out of control. They both owned land down there. One day the hatfields were working outside and the mccoys drove up. Several of them drew out rifles and started shooting!

I don't know if they were actually shooting to hit or just laying down rounds to scare them. The hatfields ran like heck and hid behind a wagon or truck or something. These shots were coming from about forty yards. None of the targets had guns. The bad guys could have just walked up and popped them.

They should have been carrying, imo. The hatfields had shown that they were freakin nuts. If they had been carrying pistols and had trained for longer range, they would have been prepared if the nut squad had pursued them.

There is no reason to spend your entire life training at thirty feet, and that is all that some people do anymore. Anyone who expects to defend himself needs to practice the discipline and skills required for longer ranges, maybe up to thirty yards. Whatever else they accomplish, they will develop better handling skills and again, discipline.

You don't know what the future holds. So (maybe) you wear your seat belt, brush your teeth, own life insurance, and carry a gun. Carrying a gun isn't good enough, you need to know how to use it, and part of knowing how to use it is being proficient beyond hitting silhouettes at twenty feet.

For the record, you are being grotesquely negligent if your guns aren't sighted in properly. Yes, that is just my opinion. You may someday be called upon to shoot a rampaging rabid coyote that's trying to eat your chihuahua.
 
We have an enormous casino here. As big as a vegas one. They have a swat team. Armed security guards.

They use my range sometimes to train. I've never seen anything more ridiculous than men training with rifles and even automatic weapons at 30-40 feet. The parking lot, where they would need rifles, covers an entire city block. Rapid fire Shooting at a silhouette with a rifle at forty feet isn't training.
 
briandg said:
We have an enormous casino here. As big as a vegas one. They have a swat team. Armed security guards.

They use my range sometimes to train. I've never seen anything more ridiculous than men training with rifles and even automatic weapons at 30-40 feet. The parking lot, where they would need rifles, covers an entire city block. Rapid fire Shooting at a silhouette with a rifle at forty feet isn't training.
Click to expand...
Firstly it is training. Secondly just because that is what you saw them do does not mean that is all they did or do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top