Long range distance for self defense

So I decided that I should practice at longer ranges.
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Longer range practice is good. However, the realistic chance that you will be in a long distance self defense shooting is going to be extremely rare. Very few will ever have a Vic Stacey incident outside of law enforcement and he was helping law enforcement at the time.

Your typical short range game should still be king for your defensive practice.

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I have to laugh. I had a buddy that used to practice with his pistol out to 200 yards and was pretty good with it. His reasoning was that the wanted to be able to shoot the bad guy before the bad guy shot him. Finally one day he ended up in a lethal force situation, wrestling with his attacker over control of both of their guns. He lost. Fortunately, the other guy didn't shoot him.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Longer range practice is good. However, the realistic chance that you will be in a long distance self defense shooting is going to be extremely rare. Very few will ever have a Vic Stacey incident outside of law enforcement and he was helping law enforcement at the time.

Your typical short range game should still be king for your defensive practice.

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I have to laugh. I had a buddy that used to practice with his pistol out to 200 yards and was pretty good with it. His reasoning was that the wanted to be able to shoot the bad guy before the bad guy shot him. Finally one day he ended up in a lethal force situation, wrestling with his attacker over control of both of their guns. He lost. Fortunately, the other guy didn't shoot him.
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Oh, I completely agree. I have no illusions of grandeur regarding my ability to drop bad guys at 50 paces during the chaos of a spree shooting at my local Wally World.

My only point was that I realized that there are many places I frequent that might require a shot longer than 21 feet, so I practice at longer ranges. IMO, the more accustomed I become through practice at reliably hitting a target a longer ranges, the less I'll miss if I ever have to do it for real. Which I really hope never happens.

It's the same thing as pool. I practice 3-rail shots all the time. When they happen in a money game, which is extremely rare, most people I play miss. I don't.
 
Just curious if anyone here practices shooting at moving targets? Majority of handgun ranges just have the standard "hang up your paper target and set it up to the max distance we offer." While I can hit a stationery target at 25 yards consistently with my Beretta 92, my percentage drops dramatically as soon as it starts moving left or right at any speed. Now my 28" 12 guage on the other hand is cake, but I dont ccw it, nor do I carry my full-size Beretta. My LCP is for up close self defense, and my Glock 23 comes when the weather cools off. Could I make a 25 yard shot with my LCP on a moving target that firing back? Bahahaha nope.
 
Rangerrich99 said:
Oh, I completely agree. I have no illusions of grandeur regarding my ability to drop bad guys at 50 paces during the chaos of a spree shooting at my local Wally World.

My only point was that I realized that there are many places I frequent that might require a shot longer than 21 feet, so I practice at longer ranges. IMO, the more accustomed I become through practice at reliably hitting a target a longer ranges, the less I'll miss if I ever have to do it for real. Which I really hope never happens.

It's the same thing as pool. I practice 3-rail shots all the time. When they happen in a money game, which is extremely rare, most people I play miss. I don't.
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There is no requirement for longer shot's normally. If the guy is in your face, shoot at body mass. If the guy/girl is 20+ yds off you probably can reach cover or be gone. If the shooter has a rifle and your off to far and engage him, if he's any kind of shot and see's where your shooting from, your probably gonna die if you engage. Of course no one know's what the situation will be until it's a bit late for planning. If you have no choice but to engage, engage! If you have other choices, take them and live to fight another day. This Rambo stuff coming out of some people is scary. You could set the shooter in t kill them all mode and for what? To be a hero?
 
This is an interesting post, mostly I've practiced at 5-10 yards, and I do imagine I could shoot out further with more practice. The question is, am I going to engage an active shooter if I can safely get myself or some people out of there and possibly save lives? Probably not.
 
I have been in an on-duty shooting and I don't think it's wise usually to listen to urban legends made up of folks who haven't been there. The bottom line is, you have to articulate what you did, and why you did it to investigators, grand jurors, and if it goes to a civil or criminal trial, to the petit jury. Your articulation of the facts and other things that enter into the situation is what is critical. You have to be able to explain yourself, and the evidence collected at the scene has to reasonably back you up. If you embellish things that remove your statement from the physical evidence, you will be less believable. I used handloads. I was on-duty. I was authorized by my agency to use handloads at the time. It wasn't an issue in my situation. It may, or it may not be an issue in subsequent situations. But one constant thing is your describing what you did, and why you did it. You have to justify it. It may be more difficult in some of the more liberal regions of the country, it may not. But you need to do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason. Then you have to explain it so those folks sitting there who have never been in your shoes know what went on. There are some smart, experienced national experts who pass along good information. There are some out there I wouldn't listen to for a minute. You have to figure out who to listen to. Don't just take my word for it, I was only involved in one shooting. But seek out good information from folks who know, not someone who is trying to make a buck or a name for themselves.
 
At the range a couple of days ago and most shots were 5- 10 yards. I did take a number of shots at 25 yards and kept them in the torso on target. But I kept asking myself how do others guys hold groups at this distance? I guess the answer is practice.
 
kenny53 said:
At the range a couple of days ago and most shots were 5- 10 yards. I did take a number of shots at 25 yards and kept them in the torso on target. But I kept asking myself how do others guys hold groups at this distance? I guess the answer is practice.
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I stunk bigtime at 25 meters today. Listened to a couple corrective measures from the RSO, will be working on internalizing them next time

D
 
if you shot a person shooting others.... i.e. in El Paso or Dayton, and you were 50 yards from them, it would be ruled justified. lethal force can be justified in defense of a third party not just yourself. that said, you should at least know what you can do with the gun you normally carry. whether or not you need to shot an assailant at 50 yards or not, your question should be are you capable of doing so.
 
Real self-defense is dinner table distance.

Imaginary self-defense, (which is more fun for mall ninjas to talk about on forums), is anyone's guess.
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With that attitude, I wouldn't want you on a jury. But, that's just me.

The most COMMON self defense ranges are short but that doesn't make longer ranges imaginary, just less common.
 
44 AMP said:
With that attitude, I wouldn't want you on a jury. But, that's just me.

The most COMMON self defense ranges are short but that doesn't make longer ranges imaginary, just less common.
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Well if I was on a jury, I would be interested in much more than distance to determine a good shoot. Which is probably why I never get selected (I'm an engineer).

I was trying some 65yd shooting with my M&P40 2.0 Compact the other day - pretty pathetic. Not sure yet if it is the gun or me & and those combat sights. I can shoot pretty good at that distance with my 1911's and target sights, but not so with this truck gun.

I'm thinking it is those combat sights and my eyes because I can shoot nice 25yd groups with the M&P. Oh well, I can't imagine needing to chuck lead at that distance anyways.
 
I think most self defense encounters are typically very close, measured in feet. But it doesn't hurt to be able to consistently hit a target a longer ranges. But only if your handgun is capable of that accuracy, and you practice a lot with it. Many years ago I could consistently hit an 8 inch plate at 50 meters with a 45acp. But I had a very good handgun, $$$, and practiced with it religiously. Probably would not be able to hit that 8 inch plate, consistently, anymore as I don't practice much.
 
I absolutely agree nearly all SD shooting is up very close. I also support the idea of leaving when possible.

All the good normal stuff that mostly centers around robberies and hold ups.

Some folks are sneering and ridiculing the idea of engaging at longer ranges with a handgun.

I've noticed the news shows us a different sort of killer.There was Whitman in the 60's. In a tower with a rifle. Killing people.
We have the Las Vegas slaughter .Or the long halls or aisles of a WalMart. where it seems the motive is body count.
Steve Scalise and the GOP ball team were being shot up b a nut with an SKS. The LEO's that took him down used handguns. I don't know the range.

I'm no nnja,I'm nobody special. But I have drawn down on a lot od 300 yd rocks when my buddy said "No way! then I smacked the rock.

If you have no experience or confidence hitting at 100 yds+ with a handgun...Well,as Dirty Harry (I think?) said,"A Man's got to know his limitations" Argue for yours,you can keep them.

In today's world,it DOES sometimes happen a man with a long gun will shoot at you when all you have is a handgun.The man with the long gun may exploit the advantage of distance.

If you,my friend,should decide to lay on your back and wet yourself because he is "Too Far"....so be it.Thats up to you.

I;m thinking I'd likely consider shooting back. I may not be able to keep my shots on a dinner plate at longer ranges,but I can make a window or a 3 foot circle really dangerous.
 
HiBC said:
I absolutely agree nearly all SD shooting is up very close. I also support the idea of leaving when possible.

All the good normal stuff that mostly centers around robberies and hold ups.

Some folks are sneering and ridiculing the idea of engaging at longer ranges with a handgun.

I've noticed the news shows us a different sort of killer.There was Whitman in the 60's. In a tower with a rifle. Killing people.
We have the Las Vegas slaughter .Or the long halls or aisles of a WalMart. where it seems the motive is body count.
Steve Scalise and the GOP ball team were being shot up b a nut with an SKS. The LEO's that took him down used handguns. I don't know the range.

I'm no nnja,I'm nobody special. But I have drawn down on a lot od 300 yd rocks when my buddy said "No way! then I smacked the rock.

If you have no experience or confidence hitting at 100 yds+ with a handgun...Well,as Dirty Harry (I think?) said,"A Man's got to know his limitations" Argue for yours,you can keep them.

In today's world,it DOES sometimes happen a man with a long gun will shoot at you when all you have is a handgun.The man with the long gun may exploit the advantage of distance.

If you,my friend,should decide to lay on your back and wet yourself because he is "Too Far"....so be it.Thats up to you.

I;m thinking I'd likely consider shooting back. I may not be able to keep my shots on a dinner plate at longer ranges,but I can make a window or a 3 foot circle really dangerous.
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I can understand lobbing some lead in the general direction while you retreat to cover. A little dust kicking up, the buzz of bullets skipping up close by can break the concentration of the average untrained rifle shooter. So yes I think it is a good exercise to try some 100yd shots with your LCP.
I just wouldnt waste too much ammo on it.
 
I agree that the average self defense shooting is probably under 7 yards with many being only 2 or 3 yards. But never underestimate what a skilled handgunner can do at much longer ranges. Granted under fire, and under pressure will make a lot of difference, but hits at long range are very possible, but probably not for the average Joe who has never shot past 25yds.

I competed in NRA hunter silhouette matches for several years, where we shot at steel targets at 25yds to 100yds off hand. I could hit usually at least 5 out of 10 rams at 100yds in a match, and often it was more like 7 or 8 out of ten, with even iron sighted 6" Smith and wesson L-frame revolvers, or even a 5 inch 1911 with iron sights. You have to allow for elevation but its not that hard to do.

I live on a farm and I have a steel IDPA man target hanging on a chain at 90yds from my yard fence and it has a 6" flapper in the 5 point zone on a hinge. I will hit it nearly everytime from a rest on the fence, and usually only slightly worse off hand on a good day. I can do this with quite a few different types of pistols. Glock 22 40cal, 5" 1911, I even have a Smith and Wesson Shield that I can do that with.

Could I do it in a fire fight with in coming rounds hitting around me? The answer is not nearly as often; that's for sure. I am not bragging, but I am just saying, it can be done, but maybe not by the average CCW person. However, if you are lucky enough to have access to some long range shooting at reactionary targets you really should give it a try, so at least you will know what your hit probabilities are at the longer ranges, and remember, if you can do it then someone shooting back at you might be able to do it.

And the more you practice, the less luck has to do with it. However, adrenaline can and very likely will have a devastating effect on your hit probability even at very close ranges. It's not that you can't see the sights good enough or that your gun won't do it (well at least a gun the size of a Shield or bigger, not an LCP), usually. It's you trigger control, or shall I say the lack of it that causes you to miss so badly at times.
 
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Be great if some LEOs posted about their thoughts
while carrying off duty.
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I used to compete in PPC, the Border Patrol used to qualify @ 50 yards. I have done a bunch of pistol shooting @ 50 to 100 yards. It is something that one really needs to do with their gun and ammo before they try to do it in real life. I remember reading somewhere during my PPC days (1980's) that @ 50 yards sight errors are magnified 768 times. I don't know if it was true or not. I got pretty good at keeping about a 6" group @ 50 yards offhand.

Fun practice is clay pigeons on a dirt berm @ 50 yards.

At 50 yards you do not need any hold over. At 100 yards a neck hold will drop most service cartridges into the A zone. My AR pistol in 40 S&W adds enough velocity that it shoots very flat @ 100 yards.

As previously posted every bullet you fire has a lawyer and a price tag attached. We literally cannot afford to miss. Which is why I feel that a magnum revolver is still a good choice if it is what you shoot the best.
 
Exactly.

Real self-defense is dinner table distance.

Imaginary self-defense, (which is more fun for mall ninjas to talk about on forums), is anyone's guess.
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If I may ask, what information allowed you to form this opinion?
 
Do you have a citation? I was LE in Texas for 25 years and never heard of that.

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A few years ago a feller in Brady, TX helped out a cop by shooting the BG @ about 75 yards.
https://www.policeone.com/Officer-Sa...Texas-officer/
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Nanuk, I hear an echo from several posts up, LOL. However, your alternation of the information you are citing is a bit weird. It was EARLY, Texas, not Brady, Texas which is ~50 miles away in a completely different county. In the article you cite, it isn't 75 yards (or 225 feet) but 150 feet (50 yards).

EARLY, Texas — An officer under fire in a tense trailer park standoff was saved when an armed Good Samaritan grabbed his pistol to help take out the suspect.
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Police estimate Stacy was about 150 feet away when he fired his .357 magnum pistol, striking Conner four times.
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https://www.policeone.com/Officer-S...oots-trailer-park-gunman-saves-Texas-officer/

Back when we discussed it (as you may recall as a participant), the issue was Stacy's claim that it was 165 yard shooting, which would be larger than the camper portion of the rv park where it occurred and the distance was thought to be closer to 165 feet (56 yards), a difference of a factor of 3. https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497248&highlight=vic+stacy
 
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