Loading preferences for cap n' ball revolvers

[Fiv3]

That's what I love about BP shooting. Some of us are practiced and measured to tweak maximum accuracy out of our guns. Some of us are not.

Me, I just like to make smoke and fire. I buy whatever BP substitute is on sale when I can find it. .451 balls with a wad or .454 balls without. I measure out my powder with an old .38 special casing. Sometimes I grease the ball sometimes I don't (shooting for fun at the range I do. Packing for camping I don't)

My goal is to blast holes in rotten stumps from 20 yards out or have something that makes enough flash and boom to scare the coyotes from around the tent.

 

[cap-n'-baller]

I use my BP .44 to hunt hogs. Where I live my pistol is classified as a primitive weapon, like a muzzle loader, which allows me to hunt hogs on public land from mid August to the end of February. I shoot from a bench because I believe it is the best way to determine the performance of a given load by removing as much human error as possible. I shoot at 50 yards because that is the maximum range I am comfortable firing at a hog with this pistol. I shoot from a variety of postions and know my effective range from each. My goal in all my loading and shooting with this pistol has been to develop the best combination for putting pork chops on the table. I've read alot on this forum and most of my loading knowledge has come from what I have learned here from far more experienced shooters than me.

As for the 'ritual': powder, wad, buffer, ball, repeat. All to the sound of tantric drumming, Sage smoke rising through the air, and the chanting of the elders. Did I mention I carve ancient Druid rune signs into the ball before loading it?

 

[denster]

The reason you got some chiding responses is because some of your statements about your load and proceedures and observations and preformance hurt your credability.
The 1858 cylinder has a limited volumetric capacity which 35gr of powder, a 45acp case of cornmeal, a lubed wad and roundball far exceedes.
Your statement that the gun was made for hotter loads and the cylinder can hold 60gr is not within the capacity of your gun.
A 4" group at 50yds is beyond the mechanical accuracy capabilities of most cap and ball revolvers and beyond the capabilities of most shooters. That is not saying it is impossible just improbable.
As Larry Potterfield is fond of saying. "And that's the way it is"

 

[Old Grump]

Ruger Old Army shooter here and I started with the recommended load of 147 gr round ball over 45 grains of FFFg powder and it made lots of noise, lots of smoke and a 4" group at 8 yards. No grease, no felt pads, no filler and I still don't use any of that stuff.

Today I shoot 20 grains of the same powder over the same ball and I'm getting the same group at 25 and 30 yards I was with the heavy load at 8 yards. Half the smoke and bang, nearly like shooting a 22 except there is more clean up to do afterward. It also takes a lot longer to load but the fun factor makes it worth it. I have the conversion cylinder but have never used it and I'm not sure I ever will. I'm having all the fun I can handle with my little baby powder puff load.

I don't intend to hunt with it but if I do I can go back to 40 or 45 grains and do some serious practicing but I have my Lyman Cougar in-line rifle for that.

Maybe I'm missing something here but all these doctored up and buffered loads seems like a lot of work for little gain to me. My ball is down quite away from the mouth of the cylinder but I really can't see where my accuracy has been hurt by my reduced loads. Maybe I'm lucky but I just haven't seen the need yet.

 

[arcticap]

I'm also looking into trying some .450 200 gr. conicals from a Lee mould. Anyone had experience with these?

Some folks have mentioned obtaining good performance with Lee 200 grain conicals from their Remingtons in the following thread, but I never heard that they were a really good target round or as accurate as the Buffalo revolver bullets.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=462227&highlight=lee+200

Performance probably depends on the individual gun, casting & loading variables.
Is your 12" Pietta Remington the stainless steel model?


The photos below were originally posted by mec on THR:

 

[cap-n'-baller]

So, Dense-ster I can see where you got your name. As you have now ignored my request to address the questions in the orignal post as well as misquoting my posts, mocking those who are offering their advice, and calling me a liar. I am requesting that you stop posting on this thread.

Articap- Yes, my pistol is the stainless steel Pietta with 12" barrel. The finish left a little to be desired out of the box (some machining marks still visible). Other than that it has been a pleasure to shoot and of course clean. Perhaps it is the long barrel and adjustable sights that account for the "unbelievable accuracy" that other poster here seem to find so hard to swallow. . Also, I've heard great things about the Buffalo Bullets except for one, they are very difficult to find. I tried Track of the Wolf, and Dixie Gun Works and they say the production is very sporadic and they will not have any for months. Thats why I was looking for a more reliable source. Does Buffalo sell moulds?
The Buffalos sure seem to have out done the Lee bullets in the test you posted. I wonder if a lesser charge (35-37grs)for the larger Lee bullet might have resulted in better accuracy. Only one way to find out.

 

[cap-n'-baller]

As far as the buffer and wad goes all I can tell you is what works best in my pistol. I have shot without one or the other or both. With a charge that gets me the velocity I want for hunting this combination works best. I will be shooting some next week and will try an additional wad between the buffer and the ball. I will also be trying some Lee conicals next week.

 

[denster]

Happy to oblige. For the record though I didn't call you a liar, nor did I mock anyone who gave you advise, nor did I misread your posts. You asked me what posts I thought were nonsense. I told you and why they were nonsense. You're response was name calling. And that's the way it is.

 

[cap-n'-baller]

Somehow I knew you would need to try to get the last word in as well as a final accusation. Happy Trails.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Since we're talking about loads & accuracy, here is a target I shot at the 2010 Prince of Pistoleers CAS Match in Lanexa KS.

5 rounds at 10 yards, off hand (Duelist) using a Taylor/Uberti 1861 Navy loaded with 20 grains of fffg Grafs powder, Oxyoke .36 cal Wonder Wad (The last of my stash), BPstuffllc cast .380 round ball, Treso nipples and #10 Remington caps. 3 rounds touching and two flyers. You can also see where 4 of the 5 wads hit the target. All loading done with flask using a pistol stand and installed loading lever.

You don't need all that other cr....... stuff

FM

 

[cap-n'-baller]

Fingers- When you seat the balls in your .36 do they sit flush with the top of the cylinder? Do you think this matters regarding accuracy/consistencey?

 

[davem]

The Buffalo bullets are definitely better than the bullet designs with a very narrow driving band. My experience has been that when a bullet has a narrow driving band it can twist out of alignment during its seating into the chamber- obviously not good for accuracy. Along the same lines that's why I think a slightly larger ball- the type that shears off a ring during the seating, is good- a little more contact area with the rifling. I think the bullets will normally beat the balls at the longer ranges although in rifles some guys shoot very good groups at 100 yards with a PRB.
A few years ago I made up about 100 small paper tubes with fitting caps. I use a reloading scale and weigh every charge (I use black powder not volumetric substitutes). All the tubes go into a reloading box- kept upright and taken to the range. It may be mental but I have had better accuracy with the carefully weighed charges.
On the wads. I cut some of my own and experimented with various lubes. Now I use the pre-lubed wonder wads. I think the biggest benefit of the wad is it helps prevent gas cutting and improves accuracy.
As I said, I tried the cream of wheat fillers, etc but the heavier charges seem better in my case so I omitted the filler. With the thick wads the charge is moderately heavy- I can hear a slight crunch in seating the ball.
As I said, I put a line on the ram to seat the balls at the same depth. The idea about being near the end of the cylinder is to reduce the "jump" into the rifling and therefore have better accuracy.
I've only shot pistol in a couple of State Events and one hand- off hand was my recollection, the guy next to me on one event had a flintlock and if I recall at 50 yards off hand he was getting around 6" groups. In any event I'm sure you can better 4" off a rest. As far as other handguns, my experience has been better than 4" groups at fifty yards when using a rest.
I've never weighed the balls to check for voids, etc but that would be one more step towards accuracy.
Speed up lock time? I suppose the hammer could be lightened or a stronger replacement spring used. I too would be interested in knowing what others do for top accuracy.
And...some other things would pertain to handguns in general. A range rod can test chamber alignment with the bore. The forcing cone angle might play a role as well.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Fingers- When you seat the balls in your .36 do they sit flush with the top of the cylinder? Do you think this matters regarding accuracy/consistencey?

No, with 20 grains and a wad, they sit around 3/16 inch below the mouth - that's a guess, I've never measured it. I give the loading lever a full stroke when seating so the rammer bottoms out.

I've never shot revolvers in precision/bullseye competition, and I've never been anal enough to compare, so I have no first hand knowledge of whether the ball being flush with the chamber mouth makes a difference. There is no way to totally eliminate ball jump between chamber and barrel. All you can do by seating flush is reduce it. I personally do not think it makes enough difference to matter. But, I've been wrong before. Besides, I'm happy with minute of paper plate accuracy for what I do.

 

[Hawg]

I don't use fillers either. I've never had a gun I couldn't pretty much keep within three inches at 25 yds. offhand. As for Lee conicals I like them but all I have a mold for are .36's. They're slightly tapered and load easily and straight.

 

[davem]

Those three bullets- are those the Lee Conicals? The overall shape looks good and the heavier weight ought to be better for hunting. How's the accuracy compared to RBs?

 

[cap-n'-baller]

Got my pistol out, filled one cylinder to the top with Shockey's Gold, poured that out and measured it. Came up with exactly 60grs. Not sure what all the confusion is about this. Try your own experiment and see what you come up with. I'm also unsure about the idea of pressing a ball (or conical) over that load in anything other than a Walker, or ROA.

For those of you intersted in trying some conicals, here is a post from Raider2000. I am ordering some of his bullets (the .450 200 gr.)this week and look forward to trying them out as soon as they arrive.This post is a few years old so some of the info has changed. Apparently he has had to raise his prices due to demand and they are now $20.00 per 100 including shipping. Also he has a larger selection of bullets available than are listed and they are available to ship immediately. He has been quick to respond to any questions I have had. You can search his posts on this site to view the whole thread, there is some good info in it.

.44 caliber bullets for sale.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all.

A thought come to my head on the THR forums that some people may not cast their own Balls & Bullets for their muzzloading fun & may not have access to a conical for their .44 caliber C&B revolvers.

At the moment my 200gr. Lee .450 diameter conical mold in out of commision but if intrest comes about I'm willing to acquire another one for this but I do have the 220gr. Lee .456 diameter conical they both are excellent bullets for general shooting & increased striking energy for hunting purposes.

The 200gr. conical will load nicely in most .44 caliber C&B revolvers with it having a heeld design making the first ring about .442 then the next about .446 & the last .450.

The 220gr. conical will load nicely in many Uberti .44 caliber C&B revolvers & is an excellent bullet for the Ruger O.A. & like the 200gr. conical is of heeled design, .447 then .451 & lastly .456.

I'll sell 100 rounds unlubed for $11.00 + $6.00 for shipping to anywhere in the lower 48 U.S. states

Now remember if any one is interested in the 200gr. conicals the first order will take 2-3 weeks b ecause of having to acquire a new mold but the 220gr. conicals are available now & will ship imediatly.

If interested please PM me or email me at raider.2000@yahoo.com
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[mykeal]

Got my pistol out, filled one cylinder to the top with Shockey's Gold, poured that out and measured it. Came up with exactly 60grs. Not sure what all the confusion is about this.

Well, part of the confusion stems from:

I could easily fit over 60grs. of powder in there!

We typically quote powder capacities that allow one to also load a projectile, so I expect that many, like me, assumed you meant 60 grains under a ball or bullet of some sort. And I think you'll have to agree that saying 'easily fit over 60 grains' is a bit of an exaggeration from 'filled ... to the top with...exactly 60 grs.', yes?

So you see, as a new member, since we have little else to use in judging your veracity, you've picked up a bit of a reputation for hyperbole, and the 4" 50 yard group from a bench claim is viewed with some, well, skepticism.

Not trying to bust your chops here, just passing along what I hope will be viewed as some helpful information.

By the way, my Euroarms 1858 Remington chambers hold 40 grains by volume of fffg Goex, settled by tapping the chamber and the measure but not compressed, just like I do when I load it. It was loaded flush with the top. Now my 3 powder measures don't agree exactly, varying by as much as 13% at worst; I used the 'middle' measure, but even at 13% error, that's still only 45 grains. Perhaps your measure is a bit off?

 

[Hawg]

Those three bullets- are those the Lee Conicals? The overall shape looks good and the heavier weight ought to be better for hunting. How's the accuracy compared to RBs?

Yeah they're Lee's. Accuracy is good. This was at 25 yds.

But there's only five holes you say. Well the sixth wasn't exactly a miss.

Here's an unfired one and a recovered one.

 

[gus3836]

Tweaking C&P pistols

Hey Noz who or where can you have C&P pistols tweaked? Gus

 

[Raider2000]

Gus;
I tweaked my own Pietta NMA for my own purposes to load the larger .456 Lee conicals & .457 ball, including smooting up the innards, re crowning & throating the barrel & now to me she shoots better than I can ever get.

I know that the boys over at Taylors do some work but I'm not sure what they will do or how much they charge.