LEO's what is safe etiquette when stopped

I've never had a bad experience with police.
But I treat them with the same civilized respect I give everyone, if they're carrying a badge or not.
That seems to work just fine.
 
what do the cops want?

OK so first off I spent 25 years on the street as a uniformed policeman, plain clothed policeman, and as a detective. I've had a second job in security as well.

having retired some years ago I will say that police tactics and attitudes have changed.

What everyone should understand (including the police) is that the police interact with others for different reasons. Reasons like traffic reports, traffic stops, crime reports, various investigations, criminal suspects, routine conversation, and during routine things like eating, shopping and just walking down the street.

Most police contact is routine, uneventfull and forgetable. How a person reacts to the police mostly depends on the reason for the interaction... for example of your reporting a past crime there is no reason to show your hands..
 
My rule of thumb is, if the officer is going to see it then give him a heads up. I don't like surprises. If not, don't make an issue of it.
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That is/was exactly my point to inform from the get go whether required or not. Just prevents a possible issue of "he has a gun SURPRISE" during the stop.
Just my opinion. :)

Being smart and careful doesn't mean that a person is terrified or genuinely concerned about being shot. I don't have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen because I'm terrified of fire. And when I bought it, it wasn't because I thought it was likely that the house will burn down in the near future. It's just a reasonable measure to take
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Personal experience told to me by a LE doing business with a company that I worked for. I asked his thought on how one should proceed in a traffic stop while carrying.
He stated that during a traffic stop not being inform by the driver the he was CCW'ing when the driver reached for the glove box the butt of a gun became exposed. Thus resulting in the driver winding up face down in cuffs in the streets because of the surprise gun showing itself. Had the driver let him know this from the start the cuffs would have been prevented(no surprise)
 
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The level I'm thinking of simply puts 1/2 dozen rifle bullets through the cop's windshield while he's fiddling with his radio and adjusting his hatband. Then they just drive away like nothing happened.
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There are videos where that happens too. Some will kill/try to kill as soon as the opportunity presents. Others will allow the cop to approach and even talk for awhile before they start shooting. So:
Do cops think a real bad guy is going to let them walk right up to the vehicle window and THEN decide to shoot them?
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Yes they do. Why? Because sometimes it happens that way and they've seen videos of it going down like that. I provided two and you can certainly find more.

Are there bad guys who will not wait that long? Yes. You can find videos of that too--in fact here's one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu2i37rZ93M
As i said its the fact that people even have to think that way and find it acceptable, that if i make a wrong move i might get shot i find strange.
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The bottom line is that any time you are interacting with armed law enforcement there is a chance of getting shot if you make a wrong move. The chances of that happening depend on what kind of wrong move you make and in what circumstances. In most cases the chances are very, very slim.

Do you "have to think that way"? No, and you don't have to make plans for what might happen if your house catches on fire either. But it might be a good idea to do both.

I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that in your interactions with law enforcement you probably weren't armed. As Glen Dee's comments suggest, being armed doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous to interact with the police, but it does add some options for misunderstandings that might not otherwise arise. And that's also something that might be a good idea to keep in mind if you find yourself in that situation.

As far as it being "acceptable" or not, that's going to boil down to your opinion. I know people who don't like to lock their doors. They find it unacceptable to have to concern themselves with that detail and don't even like talking about it--presumably because it's uncomfortable to consider what could possibly happen if they continue to routinely leave their doors unlocked. I have a different opinion on the topic.
 
In the words of Richard Pryor
“I am placing my hands on the steering wheel officer because I don’t want to be no accident”
 
I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that in your interactions with law enforcement you probably weren't armed.
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Mostly not armed, but if going to the range i would have firearms in the vehicle.
 
There's a significant difference in being armed and taking firearm(s) to the range.

By definition, the former involves a firearm that is loaded and readily accessible whereas taking a gun to the range generally involves unloaded firearms that are cased and/or otherwise inaccessible to the driver.

An unloaded/cased firearm may be of interest to law enforcement but is unlikely to be a concern. On the other hand, a vehicle occupant armed with a firearm could certainly cause concern to an LEO depending on the circumstances. I make a point of insuring that those circumstances don't arise.
 
An unloaded/cased firearm may be of interest to law enforcement but is unlikely to be a concern. On the other hand, a vehicle occupant armed with a firearm could certainly cause concern to an LEO depending on the circumstances. I make a point of insuring that those circumstances don't arise.
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I understand that but the police had every reason to be careful here when stopping cars and checking their occupants. But them shooting me if i made a wrong move was not a concern.

At its peak the force had around 8,500 officers with a further 4,500 who were members of the RUC Reserve. During the Troubles, 319 members of the RUC were killed and almost 9,000 injured in paramilitary assassinations or attacks, mostly by the Provisional IRA, which made, by 1983, the RUC the most dangerous police force in the world in which to serve.
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some states require ccw disclosure when an official police encounter occurs, some do not. in any event, keeping your hands in plain view such as the steering wheel is a good start. an interior dome light being on if at night can also reduce tension.

if you are required to disclose your ccw status or such status might become discovered inadvertently during the encounter it is best to be up front verbally without any physical actions until it is clear of the intentions....

"officer, I have a ccw permit and I am armed. how do you want me to proceed"?

"officer, my vehicle registration/insurance card.... is in the glove box and there is a pistol.... in there. how do you want me to proceed"?

in any case, it is best to make your intentions known because nobody likes surprises.

civility is the lubricant to all relationships/encounters. acting like a responsible adult or acting like a jack-ass, each has their own rewards.
 
But them shooting me if i made a wrong move was not a concern.
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1. "Being smart and careful doesn't mean that a person is terrified or genuinely concerned about being shot." It just means they're being smart and careful.

2. Whether or not you were concerned, had you made the proper (improper would be more accurate, I guess) wrong move with a firearm--one which put an LEO in legitimate fear of their life--you would very likely have been shot. LEOs don't carry firearms just for show.

3. To me it makes sense to avoid circumstances that might alarm an armed LEO. Others might have a different opinion. Some don't like to think about the potential for things to go awry because it messes up their chosen mental picture of the world. All I can say about that is that a person's mental picture of the world has no effect on reality. It either matches reality or it doesn't, but either way reality is unchanged.

For example, I've talked to people who don't lock their doors because they have no concern about someone entering their house uninvited. Either because of their perception about where bad things happen or because of their choice of how they prefer to view the world. They found it "strange" that I tried to convince them that locking their doors was a good idea. That doesn't mean that they are right to feel safer than someone who feels it's important to always lock their doors. It doesn't meant that I'm paranoid because I always lock mine. It just means we have a different mindset.
I understand that but the police had every reason to be careful here when stopping cars and checking their occupants.
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I'm sure they do. And I'm just as sure you fully understand the difference between being armed and transporting unloaded/cased firearms and how that difference might reasonably be expected to affect one's interaction with the police. ;)
 
Reading some of the posts it sounds like advice you would give someone in some police state. Is it that bad in America that you do what instructed by police for fear of being shot an a trafic stop, its the fact that people seem to think thats acceptable i find disturbing. As for what to do it sounds like you had better follow the advice given.
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A little drift if I may...

The US is the largest consumer of drugs recreationally in the world and has a correspondingly high crime rate. Practically all violent crime evolves around the sale, production, distribution, purchase and use of intoxicants.

Countries without serious political problems that have high gun ownership rates and low drug use have very low crime rates. What I find disturbing is the fact that this situation is acceptable because people like their intoxicants then suffer a seeming willful cognitive dissonance when it comes to the associated crime.

Bringing it back around...

Practically everyone that the police shoot or shoots a police officer is taking some kind of intoxicant and normally a regular user of the same. Sometimes people with mental issues get shot by the police because they present as someone high on intoxicants.

People that are high on drugs are extremely dangerous. Police know this from multiple violent encounters with them and seeing their handiwork on arriving at a crime scenes every day.

If you don't use intoxicants, don't have any mental issues, present as otherwise normal and non-threatening at a traffic stop then your chances of suffering being shot through some tragic misunderstanding plummet to near infinitesimal lottery winning type odds. There will always be some measure of risk; however small.

The only way to change that is to get rid of every gun.
 
Do cops think a real bad guy is going to let them walk right up to the vehicle window and THEN decide to shoot them?
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Uh, yes............ As the paralyzed officer right there in your home state if that's a reality.........He got drilled AFTER he had normal contact with the driver and was walking away. I would tell you to ask others, but they aren't able to tell you.


As a 22 year LEO, I would be plenty comfy by you jut acting normal and courteous so we get through the stop and go our separate ways.
 
I think we need to understand the position the cop is in. He doesn't know you or anything much about you other then what comes up when he runs your plate number and then you may not be the owner of the vehicle, your friend may have loaned you his vehicle. You could be driving a stolen vehicle that hasn't been reported yet. It is no wonder the cop is very cautious. Give him or her the respect they deserve and tell them you have a gun or weapon, the stop will go much better for you and them. They want to go home to their family at the end of the shift too.
 
AS I said before I was a policeman for a few years...

My experience is that 99% of all the people I interacted treated me with all the respect due the office and what I had earned as an individual. But that was a different time.

It seems that today that much of the public has an agenda and that many of the police harbor a deep fear of the people they serve.
 
not a LEO, but it seems to me that it all comes down to using common sense...

Unfortunately as my wife has pointed out on numerous occasions, common sense seems to be going by way of the dinosaurs.

Exco
 
It seems that today that much of the public has an agenda and that many of the police harbor a deep fear of the people they serve.
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The public agenda is the feeling of entitlement.

I have no fear of the people I serve, nor have I noticed it in the ranks of my agency.

I too am curious how you came up with that............
 
Best answer I can give...

JMO but the public is better informed and educated than ever before and expect others including the police to met or exceede their job description as public servants. I agree that much of the public has unrealistic expectations from the police and government in general.

Having been a policeman, I've noticed a change in policing towards overcompensation. A much higher reliance on deadly force, a total authoritarian approach to any and every situation. I'm not suggesting that all police have changed or all departments have changed. If I had to guess, I'd say that not even most. However those that do adopt this stance effect the public's perception of all police.

If I were to give an example I'd have to say the technique of using a firearm as a compliance tool. Drawing and aiming a handgun to order someone to "GET ON THE GROUND!" And if they dont? Then what options does the officer have left?.... again just one man's opinion but things have changed and not for the better.
 
The public agenda is the feeling of entitlement.
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Not to drift too much but that is merely the feeling of the people that I deal with the most. This is nothing new though. Criminals have ALWAYS felt that everyone else owes them a living. That is why they are criminals. The rest of the public tends to run from mostly good and hard working people to welfare mommas who try to make as many kids as they can to max out their EBT card filling the world with new thugs. Still, mostly good hard working people who just want to live their lives in peace; free from muggings, burglaries, school shootings, terror attacks and an invasive government.

I do the best I can.
 
Fear

The standard for non sworn civillians and for the police to use deadly force is being put in fear for one's life or the life of another. The operative word being fear.

If a police officer draw's his pistol and threatens the use of deadly force, and that officer intends to remain within the law... he must be feeling fear. Or has he placed himself above the law?

Please understand I'm not bashing the police. I'm just suggesting that things have changed. The civil exchanges between the police and the public are becoming less common.

I can testify that My local department has some of the least imposing and well mannered and friendly police ever. But if I go one town over it's a different story.
 
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