Legal/Moral obligations for loaning a firearm

No to the gun
YES to the bear spray
Yes to an aluminum baseball bat --take her to some batting cages
Yes to getting her martial arts women's defense classes
Yes to extra locks preparations etc.....
 
Loaning a firearm to someone who's (a) scared of firearms and (b) has never used one most likely for the purpose of self defense is the equivalent of throwing someone who's never driven into a car at high speed and saying "Oh by the way you'll have to avoid a crash."

If she uses the gun for self defense it will be seized during the investigation and you may never get it back. If she attempts to use it she may miss entirely, hesitate or have it taken away from her. Plenty of self defense shootings result in nobody being hit.

There are plenty of inexpensive relatively short and light shotguns available at low cost (Mossberg 500, Remington 870, etc).

I've had students who've told me they feel they'd hesitate or believe they cannot miss they can miss and hesitation may mean the firearm is turned against them. Don't risk either for her.
 
She's "anti gun," she's scared of guns, she's likely never touched a gun... and now she wants a gun? She's also foolish. And you are too, if you help her get a gun, incompetent with firearms as she is.
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I agree.

If she's anti gun, then she may believe the police should take care of her. Have the police been notified?
 
She's "anti gun," she's scared of guns, she's likely never touched a gun... and now she wants a gun? She's also foolish. And you are too, if you help her get a gun, incompetent with firearms as she is.
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you can't fault the woman for wanting a gun. it usually takes something as serious as a stalker to open someone's eyes to the benefits of gun ownership. instead of chastising this woman because of her anti-gun views you should be applauding her for being willing to handle a firearm.

I think it would be foolish NOT do something. If you were in a position to help someone defend themselves, wouldn't you? Or, would you wait til you saw that person was a casualty on the local news? i'd feel pretty crappy if someone asked for my help and I willfully turned them away only to find out something bad happened to that person. so long as you help this woman in a way that doesn't turn around and bite you in the keister then you should be ok
 
Stay out of it.

This sounds more like an acquaintance than a friend. Do you know for sure she has a stalker? She may just be using you (and others for all we know) to show 'how easy it is' to get a gun as part of an anti-gun agenda. I mean really, her family is encouraging her to have guys sleep over? That doesn't sound like anyone I know with daughters.
 
She's also foolish. And you are too, if you help her get a gun, incompetent with firearms as she is.
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I plead guilty to being foolish at times. However I hope that the fact that I asked for expert opinions (such as yours) and already articulated that I was uncomfortable loaning a firearms to an inexperienced person will be used in my defense. :)


About the stalker,

Apparently he recently got out of prison for stalking, "assaulting" and then strangling a girl (he thought she was dead, but she survived). He was just underage at the time so apparently they didn't lock him up and throw away the key.

Anyways, here's the situation, he took a fancy to my friend and when she didn't reciprocate his feelings (restraining order). He smashed up her car with a steel pipe and carved what he was going to do to her on the sides two days ago. Needless to say he violated his parole, and they have warrants out for his arrest, only he's on the run (but apparently still in the area).

Last night someone tried to smash her door with a sledge-hammer at 3 AM, but by some miracle the lady next door saw what was happening while warming up her car for a trip to the airport, and started honking, eventually driving up into my friends yard to scare the guy away.

So there's a little back-story.

P.S. I can't even comment on her Father's mentality,,,
Would he rather see her beaten or even worse?
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Her dad is taking care of her, he used some of his political clout to get the cops to sit outside her house in a patrol car for a couple nights. And they (the cops) actually gave her some pepper-spray. She's more worried about when they leave.

I think she is just really really scared, and that is why she is asking for something (a firearm) that she would not normally have anything to do with. I really wish her dad would just let her go home, I think that would be the best option.
 
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This sounds more like an acquaintance than a friend. Do you know for sure she has a stalker? She may just be using you (and others for all we know) to show 'how easy it is' to get a gun as part of an anti-gun agenda. I mean really, her family is encouraging her to have guys sleep over? That doesn't sound like anyone I know with daughters.
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Actually I know her fairly well. And I talked to the cops while they were at her place.

Actually, having her stay @ your place would be the best idea.
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I'm not really the type of guy to be either staying over or having girls stay over at my place. Call me old fashioned if you will. Plus I have a fiancé who probably wouldn't care for the idea. Worse case, I front her to stay in a hotel or take turns sitting outside her place with friends.

....or have it taken away from her.
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That is a good point.
 
I'm all for saying screw it to potential legal consequences and doing the right thing, but giving a gun to someone that doesn't know how to handle a gun is not the right thing. I think there is a clear consensus on this thought.

I believe she needs a non-lethal weapon that is effective, but not likely to be lethal to her if used against her.

She should carry a gun, whatever the choice, only once she is trained and proficient in it's use.

BTW, consider that staying with her had great potential to escalate the situation (don't ask how i know), and that's not a good thing. And you can't be around 24-7.

That's my 2 cents,
Andrew

PS. Encourage the firearms education. It may change the minds of generations.

NRA Life Member
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"There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them." - Malcolm Muggeridge
 
To many answers to read.

No matter who you lend the gun to, they could use it in a crime, then give it back to you potentially implicating you for the crime.

Reminds me of a funny story, I was at the range one time, a little off topic, but here it goes. A person was interested in shooting one of my guns. I put the gun in the case and brought it to there shooting area, I took it out of the case wiped it and the empty mag down real well, handed it to them with a rag, dumped out 5 untouched rounds, and told them to load it. They loaded it and shot it, and handed it to me. I pulled out a Walmart bag and said place it in there. Picked up some of the empty's. I put it back in the case and said thank you and walk away.

They didn't even react to that.:eek:

Moral of the story, don't be a fool!:mad:
 
scenario:

You loan her a firearm, scumbag shows up, breaks in, and she shoots him, then calls you and the police, you get there first, and now there's a body, a gun that's yours, and a freaked-out friend. While it would probably come out OK in the end, your life is a LOT more complicated.

She should decide if she wants to be responsible for her own safety or not, and make that decision work for her.
 
Do NOT loan her a firearm!

She must take personal responsibility for her life, not you. Let her make the adult decision whether she is going to take steps to preserve her safety and possibly her life. You are "enabling" her to avoid taking responsibility. As long as she can get someone else to do it for her, she will not take responsibility.

If she won't why should you?
 
Needless to say he violated his parole, and they have warrants out for his arrest, only he's on the run (but apparently still in the area).

Last night someone tried to smash her door with a sledge-hammer at 3 AM, but by some miracle the lady next door saw what was happening while warming up her car for a trip to the airport, and started honking, eventually driving up into my friends yard to scare the guy away.
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Jeesh, loan the girl a gun before she gets killed. That wouldn't be a good thing to carry around with you if it happened. With this guy being on parole and having warrants, and creating incidents already, how could you get into trouble for loaning her a gun? Human life is very important, and she asked you for help.
 
Needless to say he violated his parole, and they have warrants out for his arrest, only he's on the run (but apparently still in the area).

Last night someone tried to smash her door with a sledge-hammer at 3 AM, but by some miracle the lady next door saw what was happening while warming up her car for a trip to the airport, and started honking, eventually driving up into my friends yard to scare the guy away.
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I don't think we're hearing the whole story. A stalker with warrants who appears to be trying to be arrested? A police department who can't round up said stupid stalker?

The OP may not be hearing the whole story either.
 
Jeesh, loan the girl a gun before she gets killed. That wouldn't be a good thing to carry around with you if it happened. With this guy being on parole and having warrants, and creating incidents already, how could you get into trouble for loaning her a gun? Human life is very important, and she asked you for help.
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Just loaning the girl a gun isn't going to save her life. That'd be like giving my 8 yr old boy the keys to my truck and asking him to go back it up to my boat and hook it up. Sure he's got the tools necessary but he sure as heck hasn't got the skills necessary to do the job.

Besides my son's got one up on the girl in this comparison - my son would be happy to at least try and do it since he LOVES my truck! The girl hates guns remember?

This option you're pushing is about as acceptable an option as having the girl sleep over for an extended amount of time for the OP.

I agree with others though - we (and perhaps the OP) aren't hearing the whole story. Something is fishy here and in circumstances like these its best to tread cautiously.
 
No one would loan the girl a gun? I think it's alright to have concerns, but the circumstances seem to alleviate at least some of those concerns. Granted, we may not have the whole story. It could in fact, be a deal breaker to hear it.

But! If a gun is just a tool like we all say, then why not loan the girl a hammer? With all due respect, I don't think the eight year old boy borrowing your truck is a good analogy. A truck is big and harder to drive than a handgun. An 8 yr old boy can handle a 38 better than a one ton Dodge, first time out. A gun is the original point and click interface.

In my opinion, you all are too hung up on the legalistic angle and forgetting the moral factor. If you turn the girl down and don't help...if something happens to her...then it makes you no better than the perp on a certain level. Being too lawful can be as bad as lawlessness when it interferes with your willingness to help a fellow human being which asked for help.
 
In my opinion, you all are too hung up on the legalistic angle and forgetting the moral factor. If you turn the girl down and don't help...if something happens to her...then it makes you no better than the perp on a certain level. Being too lawful can be as bad as lawlessness when it interferes with your willingness to help a fellow human being which asked for help.
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It's neither the legal, nor moral aspect of the question. It has more to do with the following from the original post:


Obviously she has literally no firearms knowledge or experience. She's as scared of gun ranges as the devil is of holy-water.
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In other words, a gun in her hands may do more harm than good. And if by giving her a tool which she is not capable of using correctly, causes her harm, then yes, we are not much better than the "perp".
 
Point of law: There's no such thing as "loaning" a gun... you would be transferring it to her. Price of the sale = zero, but it's still a sale as far as the law is concerned. If you give, make sure she's legal to receive.

Advice: Take her to a gun shop, and help her choose one. Take her to a CCW class and get her trained. Take her to the (xxx) department (depending on the state) and get her a CCW. There's no "press button for instant result" available here.

Until then... pack your seabag and move in. Have her pack her seabag and move in with your fiancee, or do whatever it takes to keep her protected until she can help herself. Caveat: Some people can never help themselves... in the end bad things sometimes happen to them. That's a choice, but it's THEIR choice, and Darwin sometimes *does* win. You can only do so much, but it does seem like this might be a teaching opportunity.

I actually had experience with the same exact thing happening in my life, with a girl who was being stalked by a criminal who was an ex US Army Ranger and a bad guy.. really disturbed. Killed her cats, killed her dog, etc. Broke into her car, took her GPS, and then figured out where she had been driving to her friends houses (including me). Then I started getting calls and vandalism started at my house. Make a long stlory short, zero help from the cops, zero help from anyone. She ended up in my bedroom for a month while I slept on the couch in the living room with a shotgun until he was arrested. We are using the time he's in jail to get her armed, trained, and licensed. A liberal anti-gunner to start, an armed CCW holder in the end. Get to it!


Willie

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I'm not really the type of guy to be either staying over or having girls stay over at my place. Call me old fashioned if you will. Plus I have a fiancé who probably wouldn't care for the idea. Worse case, I front her to stay in a hotel or take turns sitting outside her place with friends.
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I'm sorry, I was under the impression that this girls life was actually endangered. I also was not trying to give the impression that hanky-panky on your part had to go along with the attemp to save her life. If your fiance is uncomfortable with her sleeping on the couch to avoid being killed, then you need to walk away right now, either from your fiance or the situation. If your fiance is uncomfortable with her on your couch, you really think she will be comfortable with you spending the night out in front of her place? As I said in my first post, once the stalker realizes you are involved, you too will become a target. Odds are that is already the case. If this guy is really has a warrant out for his arrest and is actively being pursued, and is the one attacking her door with a sledge hammer, I doubt this situation will go on for long without him either being arrested or her being killed. Sending her unprotected to a motel is not the answer. An easy, passive solution is not gonna happen. She needs active protection until she can protect herself or the dirtball is in jail.
 
If you have a romantic interest the father/family just opened a door for you. Pack a bag and get to her house.

If not, tell her you will take her to a range with rental guns and if she wants to buy one she can. All sorts of things can happen with a gun you loan.

You can't be responsible for everyone. There are too many people in this world who need help/protection. Some you just have to let figure it out on their own.

THere are non-firearm defense options. They may not be as effective, but they are less dangerous if mishandled also.

The DA pull on a revolver should not be a problem if she is healthy. The Glock being more dangerous isn't true IMO either. You just can't leave it in a drawer out of a holster, not that doing so with any gun is a good idea.
 
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