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LCP defense ammo?
- Thread starter Mosin44az
- Start date
Limnophile
New member
You know, I've never heard that FMJ deforms or vaporizes on a target. Therefore, hardcast can't penetrate deeper than a standard copper FMJ as the density didn't change the shape...
Standard pressure Buffalo Bore HC-FN are 100-gr bullets; they offer standard pressure FMJ-FN with 95-gr bullets. Thus, the heavier, more dense HC bullets have a greater sectional density.
In Charles Schwartz, 2012, Quantitative Ammunition Selection, iUniverse, Bloomington, IN, bullet penetration into the human body is well modeled as follows:
Xₜ = Dₛ × Vᵃ
where:
• Xₜ is the bullet terminal penetration depth in inches;
• Dₛ is the bullet sectional density in pounds per square inch;
• V is the bullet impact velocity in feet per second; and,
• a is a unitless bullet form factor.
The respective sectional densities for the HC-FN and FMJ-FN are 0.144 and 0.137 lb/in². Their respective velocities out of a 2.75-in barrel are 910 and 888 ft/s (the HC bullet has less friction with the barrel; thus, it is faster). The form factor for the two bullets is identical at 0.735 (that for a truncated cone).
Crunching the numbers, the predicted penetration for the HC-FN is 21.6 in, and that for the FMJ-FN is 20.1 in. Being heavier and faster the HC-FN should penetrate about 7.2% more than the FMJ-FN, but both have far more penetration potential than is needed to overpenetrate the human body, even in many suboptimal sight pictures. I see no need for premium ammo to assure great penetration when typical FMJ-RN "practice" ammo will also be likely to overpenetrate. But, if penetration is what you're after, HC bullets are one way to get it.
I carry ball in all my autoloaders. Reliability is number one, then shot placement then penetration. Ball does all this well and you don't need it juiced up to go through your target so you can fire faster and poke more holes.
This is one reason my current go-to general purpose load for .380 is the sinterfire 75gr NXG copper solid. Mainly for targets and plinking, but I don't mind pressing them into service for self-defense, either.
1) It's cheaper than essentially any factory new, brass case FMJ ammo I can find (at least on ammoseek.com).
2) A 75 grains, the recoil impulse feels like an extra-hot .32acp load -- substantially less than a standard 95 grain FMJ. This is an excellent feature, especially for blowback .380's. It's noticeable. And, in addition to being easier to manage in rapid fire, it's also easier on the gun.
3) At the same time, the muzzle ENERGY is actually greater than a standard 95 grain FMJ, due to the higher velocity.
4) The flat point bullet might be a marginally better shape than standard FMJ, which is optimized for creating low-drag wounds that close up most of the way after the bullet passes through. Okay, this is probably not going to matter much, but at least it's not the worst possible shape.
For self-defense, I feel these are about equivalent to 9mm FMJ, assuming they cycle the gun in question. Although, the first law of handgun stopping power appears to be the differences are much smaller than you think.
wild cat mccane
New member
The problem with higher velocity and the equation above is neither account for drag.
The rate of drag increase is 4x greater than velocity. Gold Dot 223 only goes 14" in gel. But it does it at 2700fps. Without the rifle damage effect at the TFL agreed upon min of 2,600fps, increased velocity creates drag significantly faster and provides no benefit. No rifle damage, increased drag, possible under penetration, and no documented real accounts on bullet failure.
Federal even shrugged its shoulders on lbs per square inch as meaningful and said on target results weren't translating.
It's bullet design. The two best expanders and almost best penetrators on luckygunner for 9mm were 150gr, 800fps 9mm "Micro" HST and 900fps Ranger. That's slow. HST 150gr was the 2nd slowest of all.
The rate of drag increase is 4x greater than velocity. Gold Dot 223 only goes 14" in gel. But it does it at 2700fps. Without the rifle damage effect at the TFL agreed upon min of 2,600fps, increased velocity creates drag significantly faster and provides no benefit. No rifle damage, increased drag, possible under penetration, and no documented real accounts on bullet failure.
Federal even shrugged its shoulders on lbs per square inch as meaningful and said on target results weren't translating.
It's bullet design. The two best expanders and almost best penetrators on luckygunner for 9mm were 150gr, 800fps 9mm "Micro" HST and 900fps Ranger. That's slow. HST 150gr was the 2nd slowest of all.
^^^ It looks like a .380 FMJ and a 9mm have equal penetration in the intended target, aka over penetration.
That's why I like the Winchester PDX1 95 gr..
Almost twice the diameter and 8-12" penetration.
GR
wild cat mccane
New member
PDX1 is a weird one. I don't like it in 9mm. But it does appear to be a good expander in 380. But it kinda seems to lack penetration where others expand too like Gold Dot or Sig.
I've enjoyed the talk. Take care!
I've enjoyed the talk. Take care!
PDX1 is a weird one. I don't like it in 9mm. But it does appear to be a good expander in 380. But it kinda seems to lack penetration where others expand too like Gold Dot or Sig.
I've enjoyed the talk. Take care!
Wide, reliable expansion - in exchange for penetration I don't need.
A fair trade.
Good hits count.
Bigger hits count more.
Red
wild cat mccane
New member
Sig dropping nickel plated cases without dropping the price vs Federal/CCI not dropping nickel and not increasing price...not impressed with them