I would agree, though what seem see as cautious others see as paranoid.
Indeeeeed.
I would agree, though what seem see as cautious others see as paranoid.
I would agree, though what some see as cautious others see as paranoid.
When I see an armed LEO,I don't see a threat,. The lawful concealed or open carry civilian is carrying for essentially the same reason the LEO is and represents no more threat than the LEO does.
And the civilian is just as lawfully and legitimately armed as the LEO is.
Once again,I see no threat in an armed LEO. Concealed and open carry are legit and common enough its time LEO's not necessariy see the armed citizen as any more of a threat than another LEO.
Back in the seventies and eighties it was not unusual for us to take fire directed at us particularly in our marked patrol cars while driving randomly down highways and interstates.
During that same period, as an officer on duty I was involved in no less than six shootings, I was shot twice, and I had no less than a half dozen other occasions where suspects attempted to stab and/or slice me with all manner of pointy and/or edged weapons.
You’ll have to forgive me if I’m not impressed about how dangerous it is to be a cop “this day and age.”
The military and police professions share a number of common facets, but in spite of surface similarities, the two professions are significantly different. Consequently, the evidence indicating a convergence of primary aspects of the two roles presages an important societal development, with substantial implications on several levels.
(Tunnelrat)The lawful concealed or open carry civilian is carrying for essentially the same reason the LEO is and represents no more threat than the LEO does. (HiBC)
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As one lawfully concealed carry civilian, I'm not carrying for the same reasons as a LEO (as I see it). I'm less concerned about the public good and more concerned about the safety of myself and my own family. I
As one lawfully concealed carry civilian, I'm not carrying for the same reasons as a LEO (as I see it). I'm less concerned about the public good and more concerned about the safety of myself and my own family.
If one has notably more authority than the other then it stands to reason that the expectations should differ.
As A civilian,
Well said.When I meant it as :"The reason I have a gun in my holster",which,IMO,is the same as a cops: "That raw moment when some SOB intends to kill me"
I Absolutely DO NOT believe my concealed carry makes me a kinda sorta wannabe junior deputy. I'm quite certain my job description as "civilian" IS NOT the same as the LEO's job description.
The LEO must walk toward danger.The LEO must confront and arrest folks who will kill if they get the chance.The LEO may not have the luxury of walking away.
As A civilian, its nearly always my job to walk away from danger.Its not my job to confront and arrest people.
Both the civilian and the LEO are justified in the use of deadly force under the same or similar circumstances. "The bad guy was in the process of killing me so I stopped him"
The lawfully armed civilian and the LEO in the moment of gravest extreme are carrying for the same reason,wth the same legitimacy .
That assertion is absurd.It is incredible to me that soldiers in Afghanistan exercise more restraint as an occupying force than our own LEO do at home with fellow citizens.
Ask yourself this question? How much firearm training do most LEO’s really have? I’m not talking about specialized units, just the average LEO. Most of them learned everything they know agout guns at their respective academies and comply with periodic qualifications that involve for the most part static shooting.
The militarization of civilian law enforcement in the United States and the widely held attitude that one’s top priority above all else is to get home to the warm embrace of one’s significant other have made a mess out of what it means to be a peace officer these days.
In my own training a lot of the time I've been with other officers. There's a dramatic difference, in my experience and on the average, between the typical patrol officer and those in SWAT or other response teams. The difference is as dramatic as what I see in the civilian world of gun owners versus shooters. Both groups own firearms, but one makes it a business to practice with them.One of my Chiefs made the following comment " We train people to the minimum acceptable standard, if they want to get better it is on them". I could not agree more. I have been shooting competitively for longer than I have been in LE (Early 1970's).
To many cops a pistol is just something to hang on their belt because they have too. I will also say that many CCW's lack any training and minimal proficiency as well. I used to administer my state's CCW testing, most of the applicants were scary in their gun handling and shooting.
I wish the police were more militarized. In the military there is training, discipline, and rules of engagement. When a soldier fires on unarmed civilians he is court marshalled, not defended by a union, no billed, and transferred one jurisdiction over.
In the military an enemy combatant must fire upon you before you are permitted to return fire.
It is incredible to me that soldiers in Afghanistan exercise more restraint as an occupying force than our own LEO do at home with fellow citizens.
Remember fellow patriot, second amendment supporter, proud gun owner, and licensed concealed carry permit holder Philando Castille? He was executed in cold blood by an LEO who faced no repercussions, in a situation he had no reasonable means to escape.
I respect, fear, and avoid the police. LEO are simply one more vector for harm in my daily life, perhaps an even more threatening vector than a criminal.
I can back down and try to walk away from a violent person, can't walk away from LEO.
I can avoid a bad part of town or known crime hotspots, but the police are everywhere. Nothing good ever happens when the police around, best case you gain nothing, worst case you're dead. The only winning move is not to play.
We need more militarization of the police in my opinion, the military are professional.
That assertion is absurd.
Are you kidding me? You expect cops to be martyrs? My primary goal during my career was to do just that, go home at the end of my shift. Any other attitude is foolhardy.
There is an old saying; "walk a mile in my shoes".
In the military an enemy combatant must fire upon you before you are permitted to return fire.
No, I’m not kidding you. No, I don’t expect cops to be “martyrs.” And no, I never considered my primary goal during my law enforcement career to be to get home safely although certainly doing so had a high priority.
Maybe I was raised watching too many San Diego Police Department patrol cars pass by displaying the slogan “To Protect and Serve” and it warped my brain.
I can tell you that when I pinned on that badge and strapped on my utility belt and weapon, I did so fully knowing I was a public servant performing a potentially very dangerous job.
There was no court in the land that was going to tell me I wasn’t there to protect and serve the people of my community. Also keep in mind, I would NEVER sit in my patrol car waiting for back up while listening to children being slaughtered inside their school rooms. I’m not saying you would, but I am guaranteeing you I would not.
I rather preferred wearing the military style jungle era boots with black canvas tops while on duty as a police officer rather than the “catch me screw me” type shoes some of you youngsters apparently preferred.
By the way, did you not read a couple of my other posts in this thread? Or did you just notice they were written by old jar head Leaf and skip right past them?
Because, well, it isn’t the priority any longer for peace officers to protect citizens but rather that they get home “safely to the warm embrace of their loved ones” and that they use whatever force and or procedures desired by them to achieve their goals without regard to Bill of Rights or the principles under which this nation was founded.
Fireforged, I can only assume that you like Wag have no conception or actual experience as to what it really means to “protect and serve” as a civilian peace officer.
Fireforged, I can only assume that you like Wag have no conception or actual experience as to what it really means to “protect and serve” as a civilian peace officer.