Knife Tactics

Do nothing illegal. Don't leave. Hide nothing. Alter no evidence. Call 911.

Aside from that, know that our culture associates knives with low lifes only.

Absent a legal carry gun, what you need is good verbal skills, fast sneakers, a cell phone, and a can of OC (if legal for you to carry in your area).
 
I think PBASS hit the nail right on the head.

From my perspective, I can neither carry a gun or any other offensive weapon. I have a utility knife, but unless I plan on "paring" the other guys skin off of him it's not of much use! :)

What I would appreciate from some of the more learned members here, is tactics for attacker has knife and you don't ... I know run the hell the other way is a wonderful tactic, but not always realistic.

I do know some martial arts (no expert); I know the basics of blocking and using the opponents inertia against him. I wear Kevlar gloves most of the time.

However, if my back is against the wall so to speak, am I screwed or is there some usefull info out there for some poor shmuck like myself who might just be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
 
With the caveat that I've never been in a knife encounter, much less unarmed against the knife, I got the Redzone tapes based on recommendations from some very good folks, and am happy that I did. I'm executing the Redzone techniques and techniques more effectively in training than I've been able to with any other techniques. And, in fact, one of the first things shown in Redzone are types of techniques that work against flowing, martial-artsy type attacks, but tend to fail against explosive attacks accompanied by forward drive (i.e., real-life attacks).

Video is here: http://www.centerlinegym.com/red_zone.htm

The pictures at the bottom tell the story a bit.
 
OK, here's my 2 cents worth!

I began the study of knife fighting back in 78. I was camping, was sitting next to the fire and got to thinking about survival tactics. Almost everything I did required a knife...clean a fish, build temp. shelter, whittle kindling, so I had a knife...but didn't know how to use it for defense...got to thinking, suppose the only tool I had was a knife?

Suppose the situation came where the only tool I had with me was a knife...

I have over the years purchased all of the books, video's and have taken personalized instuction from "prison" trained knifers!

Cold Steel Knives has a video by Lynn Thompson, its as good as most, gives you some feel for the blade...

Now, if your caught without a weapon against the knife...move out of the knifers reach and watch him move towards you on his "forward" leg. You can then kick the knee cap, or do a sweep. Scream as soon as his foot moves within reach, and launch an explosive attack, kicks towards the knee, finger tips towards the eyes, you will have about 1/2 second if you have caught him by surprise...as for the gun, a man with a knife can be within reach in under a second this is moving 20 feet. He rushes you pulling his knife while your trying to get your holstered gun out...not pretty!

I agree the stick is better than the knife, if you have the area to move about in. Take a crowded bar, you can't move with the stick, but you can get in close and do massive amounts of damage with the knife. Now go out into the parking lot and the stick, with mobility, area to move is a better weapon!

Target with the stick (impact weapon) the ankles, knees, wrists, elbows, calf muscle, throat, and collar bone!

Knife targets, muscles (hands extensor/flexor), femour artery, liver, kidneys, throat, eyes, soft palate, testicals!

All weapons require "specific" targets...gun, knife, stick...so get a copy of Grey's anatony out of the library and learn where the targeting does the most damage with what ever weapon your using!
 
Crowd a gun, flee a knife.

Or...Kali! See if there is a school of Kali in your area ( they are usualy reasonably priced and not filled with a bunch of tkd housewives...not that there is anything wrong with that!).It is not a "flowy" form. It is the most combative principles taken from many types of fighting. No high kicks, no pos'n. Dany Inasanto rules. It applies to empty or full hand.

Learning to use a blade is pointless unless you train for hand speed as well. It is all a race.

Nothin like fileting a bicep to end a fight. Training on your own is good, but unless you incorporate sparring into your regime, you are foked. I also have to agree with the comments on a stick. A collapsable batton is a wonderfull thing. As is the Escrima training you will get in Kali!
 
Actually the best way to slow someone down is not in stabbing, but slashing with a very sharp knife. Targeting the biggest arteries you can find, the folds of the arms, folds of the hip, or the neck......very large arteries and Veins, cause lots of bleeding. secondly, lying next to each artery is a major nerve , when severed, will cause them to lose function of the hand or leg. The neck has a large artery on each side of the Adams apple(voice box of the wind pipe.) cut one of those and its bad news. Cutting any major Artery will cause the victim to bleed to death in one to two minutes. But remember that works both ways. I suggest you carry a cain with you, one thats weighted at one end, use like a sword, baseball bat, ECT. A club will beat a knife anytime.
Last a word of warning.......knives, clubs, black jacks, slappers are all considered concealed weapons and carry the same legal implications as a gun.
Just be aware of your surroundings.
 
Paladin Press has two authors, Marc "Animal" MacYoung, and Peyton Quinn, who've made videos about knife defense, and MacYoung's made one on knife use. Furthermore, both of these gentlemen have had to USE them in real-life situations. They also have training facilities in Colrado, which Paladin Press can link you to. They would be my first choice as far as instuction.
 
As Fairburn found many years ago - slashing has more psychological effect, bleeding etc. Thrusts do more serious damage since they get into the vital organs. This however assumes a knife of long [at least 6-7"] blade. With a folding knife you're handicapped. Yes, bring a gun to a knife fight !!
 
Well, within 6 feet or so, don't bring a gun to a knifefight-at least not if the knifer knows what he's doing.


Larry
 
Well, within 6 feet or so, don't bring a gun to a knifefight-at least not if the knifer knows what he's doing.
Click to expand...

Well thanks, Larry. I've been waiting to see if anyone would ever bring that up. People smirk and say, "don't bring a knife to a gunfight -- har har!" without thinking about it. If the knife is out and the gun isn't, and the action is starting in close, it's very unclear the person with the gun is at any kind of advantage. How hard it is to spoil the draw and sink the knife? Answer: not hard, which is why the firearms training crowd is finally realizing that it needs to focus more on unarmed combatives, in order to get the gun into play.

mete, your statement about the blade length needed to cause a lot of damage with a knife is not accurate. Massive damage can and is caused -- with thrusts -- with even short knives. On a hard thrust, the flesh compresses, bones push in, and so a short knife actually penetrates in much further than its length.

People who get slashed go to the hospital, people who get stabbed go to the morgue. That's an overgeneralization, but often correct in the majority of cases.
 
An oft overlooked aspect of knife tactics...

Whether slashing or thrusting, sharp counts. There's a big difference between a slash with a knife that has to be forced to cut paper and slash with a knife that is scalpel sharp.


When knife has been used for months or years for routine daily tasks like opening boxes, it's not going to deliver what is needed in a life and death situation - whether that's personal defense or cutting a seatbelt to get out of a burning car.


Get your defensive knife sharp, and leave it alone. Don't use it for daily tasks.
 
Quartus,

Definitely agree it's good to have your defensive knife sharp! But let me present a different conclusion than "get it sharp and don't use it".

As I use my knife over the months and years, I check for sharpness and re-sharpen frequently. Each time I sharpen, I grind away a little more of the factory's thick 20+ degree edge, and grind it down closer and closer to 15 degrees. So, as I use my knife, it actually performs better and better as I re-sharpen each time -- the technique is outlined fairly clearly in the Sharpening FAQ. You don't need to put your defensive knife away. Just keep up with the edge and keep it sharp.

One thing to look out for: Most of us have had an experience where we put a sharp knife away, then picked it up months or years down the line, and it wasn't sharp anymore. What happened? Steel can micro-oxidize away at the edge (carbon steels *very* quickly, under the right conditions). Even if you never use your knife, you'll need to keep up with the edge and make sure it stays sharp.
 
Just adding another 2 cents worth:

Krept wrote : "Ihave heard by those involved in combat that the best approach is to stab right for the face assault style, as human instinct is to shield the face in such an attack."

In actuality, the single most devastating knife fighting group ever put on a battlefield used this exact technique: the Roman army of 2000 years ago. Their "sword" was generally speaking a 15 to 22 inch dagger and their basic tactic was just as Krept wrote: "stab em in the face". They went up and over those big shields they carried (sometimes between two of them) but their target of choice was the opponents face.

Worked pretty good for several hundred years.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
It's hard to argue that stabbing someone in the face ISN'T effective...ouch.

The problem is that "human instinct is to shield the face in such an attack", and some sparring will quickly show the difficulty of reaching the face-even on an unarmed individual.


Larry
 
Engaging in a knife fight will almost surely kill you more reliably than a gunfight. If your up againsed someone trained with a knife and your not, run, run far, run fast. If you are a trained knife fighter up against a trained knife fighter run..run, far and fast. Knife fighting, much like fistfighting, will result in you getting hit, no matter how good you think you are. If you are up against a someone with a knife, you are better off empty handed, trust me. If you are a martial artist up against an assailent with a knife, but untrained, you have the upper hand. Novice knife fighters tend to keep the knife in sight, and focus solely on the knife, it's not too hard to make quick work of them. They are focusing on one limb to strike you with, and you have four. However, if they are trained, its a whole different ball game, and if you wake up the next day, you won't be feeling so hot.

I was at a gas station pay phone late one night as I was having car trouble. A truck pulled up next to me as I got off the phone, the passenger window was rolled down. The passenger notified me that he intended on 'cutting me', i had never seen this guy before, and it's a small town. He held his arm out the window, and down along the door, im assuming to keep a low profile, as there is no tactical advantage in this. He flicked his wrist, not moving his arm, and out popped a six inch blade. I was about 5 feet away, so I stepped towards the passenger side door, and landed a kick right into his elbow that was up against the door. He screamed as his elbow surely broke, and dropped the knife from his hand. The driver opened his door, I turned the other way, and sprinted. That is how you win a knife fight, if he had been out of the truck, I would have skipped the kicking portion of the confrontation, and turned and sprinted.
 
Stabbing in the face is a good technuiqe, but requires alot more clarification. The more progressive fighting styles, such as places who don't get caught up in technique and form in a traditional martial arts sense, rather self preservation fighting, where the object is to survive not win, slash the face and neck.

It is important to point out that the knife is hidden, at the side of the torso, so the combatant can't see it unless he cranes his neck and tries to walk around that side of you. Secondly, you are in your nornal fighting stance, free hand out. You do not use the knife until the combatant has left himself opened, if they punch, you block with that hand, then step into them, stab to the face, and use a combination of slashes on vital head or body targets, almost all of them arteries or nerve centers. It is best you look up the sight of the guy who showed me technuiqes than rely on my explination. The site is www.demibarbito.com and they teach open hand, stick, knife, and tactical handgun and shotgun, none of them classes, were talking one on one here, or small groups only.
 
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