Jena, LA (Jena 6) - Thoughts

Status
Not open for further replies.
There has been absolutely no contention that the white kid who was beaten by the six black kids had anything at all to do with the incident (the nooses) that supposedly started all this mess.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Tourist said:
I believe that these race card tactics to avoid prosecution are simply tricks to side-step personal responsibility.
Click to expand...
I disagree. If you read what everyone is saying, the over-riding point is that "Equal justice should be applied equally." No one is advocating that these boys should not be punished. What I (and others) are objecting to is the severity of the charges -- especially when compared to the "slaps on the wrists" that the whites involved these incidents have received.

Alleykat said:
There has been absolutely no contention that the white kid who was beaten by the six black kids had anything at all to do with the incident (the nooses) that supposedly started all this mess.
Click to expand...
No -- that's what the Judge ruled. Many people feel much differently.
 
DoItRight, I don't see the charges as being equal.

Admittedly, to some people a noose on a tree is serious. In reality, it's tagging, it's littering.

Now, felonious assault is another matter.

I would argue "equal justice" if I hit you bare-handed, and you hit me back bare-handed. Two cut lips.

However, if you respond to a cut lip with a fist and brass-knuckles, to me that's attempted murder--at the least--criminal disregard.
 
I am not a Jackson or Sharpton fanboy. They need to be tarred and feathered and run out of town. They are tanamount to vultures circling a carcass. I dont feel for Jena because some there helped to create this problem and draw the attention.

To me for some folks in Jena to say that we dont have a racial problem is like sticking you head in the sand and ignoring it. It might be a problem of perception one would hope. They have a problem that the local folks need to fix.
 
Last edited:
The Tourist said:
Admittedly, to some people a noose on a tree is serious. In reality, it's tagging, it's littering.
Click to expand...
And that Sir, is where we disagree.

To Black people, a noose on a tree is this ...

lynch_5.jpg


or this

Lynching.jpg


or this

prod_12931.jpg


It's not an abstract concept nor is it littering or a prank
 
Those of you who know me, know that I'm quick to "play the race card."

Not playing the race card here. Just a whole lotta opportunism from those two reverends.

Isn't it often a legal tactic to charge the defendant with something bigger than the crime, in order to reach a plea agreement that's more in line?

Let me ask it a different way. Look at the CNN coverage. Do you think all those peolple went down there because they are mindlessly following Jesse and Al? Do you think that they don't have jobs/lives/other things to do? Do you think that all of them went down there looking for trouble?
Click to expand...

Media thrives on bad news. I'm not implying here that the media has an agenda, I"m saying it's easier to sell an overblown story than to present reality. Take the LA Riots for example. RK was driving real fast. Then pulls over. Cops tell the other three occupants to get down; they comply. Rodney King charges at the cops. Then they tase him. He keeps charging. Then they beat him (at this point, the camera turns on). Am I full of fluff? Well the medical report showed the Mr. King just had a few cuts and bruises - clearly no savage beating took place.

Can't we all just get along?
 
Its a bunch of BS.

No matter what the white kids did it was no reason for 6 black kids to gang up and try to beat him to death.

And does hanging 3 nooses in a tree equell 6VS1 kid? NO....

If it was 1 black kid beaten up by 6 white kids there would still be marches.. That we were being to LENIANT to the white kids..They would ask for immediate execution (Well..that might be pushing it a bit).

My opinion.... It is rascism at the VERY peak..... But in my mind it is against caucasions in this instance.
 
And does hanging 3 nooses in a tree equell 6VS1 kid?
Click to expand...

Well see, that's a bad way of looking at it. Sometimes a noose is not merely a noose. It's a statement that incites violence. C'mon y'all! Grab your pitchforks and torches and let's go lynch some _____! Or maybe you don't get it.
 
I might be one of the few but I think the Hate Crime legislation is garbage, doesn't carry a heavy enough penalty. If memory serves me correctly (and I may be wrong about the timing) this was just a move to get Bush some approval from minorities, the bill is largely worthless.

In this case the black kids beat the snot out of a white a kid who hung a noose from the tree at their school. Sorry but the kid deserved it. As the black kids deserve to get charged with assault and battery, just like any other beating.

I come from a different place than most of you guys probably and what is written about sounds like an average jumping to me, I've been on both the giving and taking ends of those so this doesn't horrify me one way or another.

I do think the school needs to discipline both groups of students, the whites for hanging nooses and the blacks for fighting...just like this things wasn't getting any press at all. The attempted murder charge was trumped up...more questions need to be asked about why the school didn't immediately expel the white kids in my opinion. That doesn't mean the black kids should be excused by any means.

This isn't even close to the case where the young lady was kidnapped, beaten, and tortured by the trailer trash...even in that case the hate crime bill is worthless because it carries less weight than any other potential charge.
 
BTW, Jackson and Sharpton are not inspirational Black leaders, they are media whores and comparing them to the great civil rights leaders who really sacrificed, suffered, and toiled for the rights of everyone who was not rich is a great deal of disrespect.
 
Let me show you something that was posted on another gun board just yesterday ...
Click to expand...
And that's the saddest part. Bigots do more harm to our gun rights than Hillary and Obama could ever hope to. Allowing such behavior is just as bad.
 
Again, for the purpose of debate, take the issue of race out of the equation. You're standing on a public street and you see six bikers go by--all on custom Harleys, all gray haired.

Almost inspite of yourself, you laugh and say, "What a bunch of RUBs."

One rider hears you, the bikes circle, and within seconds you're an ink spot in a crosswalk. The bikers are actually legitimate inactive club members returning to the group for a barbeque. You've just insulted some very dangerous people.

To my way of thinking, you've spoken fighting words.

Among legitimate bikers, the insult of 'RUB' is about the lowest remark you can utter. The phrase infers that you are a "Rich Urban Biker," a wealthy suburbanite who buys a motorcycle from a commercial customizer and then pretends to be an outlaw.

If it were my friends, I'd tell them to arrange the trial in front of the same judge who granted the opinion that there are such things as fighting words. Let's face it, you spoke the words, a fight resulted.

Sounds silly, doesn't it? I agree, and I'm a biker.
Click to expand...
The difference is that you choose to be a biker. One does not choose the color of one's skin or anything else genetic.
 
The primary problem that I see with the Jena 6 is that they were beating a person who was unconscious....There should be consequences for their actions. Conversely there should be consequences for the noose BS. It was an instigation for a fight.
Click to expand...

I'd agree. Those consequences should be a conviction for battery. Not an attempt to convict for attempted murder, and not assault with a deadly weapon.

I'm not suggesting the prosecutor should just wag his finger and say, "Oh, you kids these days..."

Now, if whoever placed those nooses in the tree were man enough to say they did it .... Better yet, those that were offended by the stupid folks that placed a noose should have notified the persons in charge of the campus and had those fools expelled from the school.
Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, it was determined who did it and the students were recommended for expulsion by the principal. The school board decided it was just "a prank" and gave them a couple days of in-school suspension instead.

The fact the one teen weathered the beating well enough to be released that night is irrelevant. A charge is based on the intent of the actions, not the results. If someone attempts to kill you but fails and you escape unharmed doesn’t mean they won’t still face the attempted murder charge. Conversely, if an action COULD HAVE resulted in a certain level of bodily harm, the perpetrator MAY well face that level of charge. I certainly doubt the attempted murder charge is warranted, but if the teen had been frail and ended up in a coma from the same level of beating would this even be a discussion?
Click to expand...

Again, this is just my Internet Law Degree (not worth the pixels it's printed on) talking, but I'm pretty sure that even in your hypothetical coma example the prosecutor would have to show actual intent to kill; otherwise he'd likely end up with a first-degree aggravated assault charge or some such. Plus the condition of the victim would come into play in sentencing.

As for the charge it was reduced to (from attempted murder), aggravated assault, unless what I've read is wrong this particular charge requires the use of a deadly weapon (or perhaps a greater level of harm)...hence the definition of the defendants' tennis shoes as a deadly weapon.

And does hanging 3 nooses in a tree equell 6VS1 kid?
Click to expand...

Considering the level of violence and mayhem that has ensued, I'd say it's close. Seriously, the school was burned down. I'd say it appears that the noose incident was the precipitating factor for almost all of this.

In this case the black kids beat the snot out of a white a kid who hung a noose from the tree at their school. Sorry but the kid deserved it. As the black kids deserve to get charged with assault and battery, just like any other beating.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the victim of the beating wasn't one of the kids who hung the nooses. There are like 4 or 5 events that lead to each other involved here. A thorough reading of the wikipedia article at the least would be best before discussing it...though I'd recommend going into some of the linked sources as well.
 
Here is an alternate view. When a bare-handed assault is so one-sided it is likely to cause death or great bodily harm, the greater power of the attacker becomes the equivalent of a deadly weapon. Force of greater numbers is one example of disparity of force. Others include male attacking female, able-bodied attacking the disabled, adult attacking child, an attack by a person known to the shooter to be highly skilled in destructive unarmed combat, and other such "unfair" matchups.

Since the disparity of force presented by a 6 on 1 attack is likely to result in serious bodily injury, they are employing lethal force. That clearly places this case in the realm of aggravated battery, and possibly attempted murder.

And beating Tom to within an inch of his life because Larry hung a noose in a tree does not serve justice. That is why we have courts. That would make as much sense as me killing a black man in Alabama to avenge the murder of a white woman by a black man in California.
 
DoItRight,

I agree a noose is in very poor taste, but nobody was hung.

In fact, the pictures you posted are from before I was born. You don't see crosses and nightriders much anymore. And tying up a noose is not equal to felonious assault.

If I threw a dead wall-eyed pike on your porch would you truly believe The Mob was after you?
 
DoItRight,

I agree a noose is in very poor taste, but nobody was hung.

In fact, the pictures you posted are from before I was born. You don't see crosses and nightriders much anymore. And tying up a noose is not equal to felonious assault.
Click to expand...
Just because the pictures he posted were from a a couple generations ago doesn't mean that kind of thing didn't still happen until very recently and wouldn't still happen if people didn't pay attention to race issues.

If I threw a dead wall-eyed pike on your porch would you truly believe The Mob was after you?
Click to expand...
I know you weren't asking me...but since I live in Chicago I'd have to go with a resounding "YES". :p
 
I know this is going to piss a lot of people off, but I think one of the best thing that could happen to sooth race relations is to put some lead boots on Revs Jackson and Sharpton and drop them in the deepest part of the Atlantic.

Race relations are not the problem. It is the failure of today's parents to raise children properly. When you see today's youth on the street corner slinging crack or harassing people, you do not notice WHO they are as much as what color they are.. and that behavior reflects badly on their race as a whole. There are too few positive roll models in the black community. Sharpton and Jackson are not positive roll models, and one of the major reasons there are no other black leaders are taken seriously.

You want racism? I give you two of the most racist persons I know. Sharpton and Jackson.
 
Be careful Jim.You are getting into the part where the blinders go on and you will be labeled a racist if you bring it up.
 
In fact, the pictures you posted are from before I was born. You don't see crosses and nightriders much anymore. And tying up a noose is not equal to felonious assault.

If I threw a dead wall-eyed pike on your porch would you truly believe The Mob was after you?
Click to expand...

Bad analogy. I don't believe DoItRight, his ancestors, and his race have had a long history for being the targets of mob hits.

Throwing a bunch of eggs and toilet paper at a synagogue, or painting a giant swastika on the front doors? One is tasteless and disgusting; the other (tasteless and disgusting as well) is inciting violence by bringing up the past. Even if the Halocaust was from before I was born.

There was much racism involved in this Jena thing, but I don't think it's nearly as monumental and evil as those two reverends make it out to be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top