I've decided to carry two spare magazines.

BlueTrain, I was not referring to you at all, was referring to the OP. As for the tactics versus logistics, the point I was trying to make is that unless your super duper weapons system is available to you is not really doing much good to make it even more super duper. In Army terms, the only good ammo is the one that is made available to you when needed, not sitting somewhere far away from you.

Sorry if I did not make it clearer.
 
1) if as you say you feel threatened as you drive through a dangerous part of town, why you choose a setup that gives you access only to your .38 at the time in which you might need it most? You carry all that firepower and make it non accessible to you where the risk is higher

If I were attacked driving through that part of town, it would most likely be a car jacker. If they approach my car and I feel like I have to shoot I will. My G22 is accessible but is just not as easy to get without shifting around.

I wont be sticking around for a shootout though, I'll be shooting the assaulter and then trying to drive away to call the police. My .38 is a means to either end a close assault or as a means to get to my G22.
 
I've decided to carry two spare magazines.

As the title says, I have decided to carry two spare magazines for my Glock 22. The one that is in the gun is loaded with Federal 180gr HST JHP.

One spare is loaded with Hornady 155gr Critical Defense JHP.

The second spare is actually in the mail from Glockmeister, but when it arrives I'm thinking about loading it with FMJ rounds.

I have the room on my belt to carry another magazine and the weight doesn't bother me. Do you guys think I'm going into overkill here?

I've posted my EDC a few times on this site but here it is again.

1. Wallet
2. Keys
3. Cell Phone (R2-D2 limited edition Verizon Droid 2 by the way)
4. Glock 22 (In a Serpa CQC level 2 holster)
5. 2 Spare mags for the G22 (In a double mag pouch)
6. Taurus model 85 .38 special loaded with Hornady Critical defense JHP (In an Uncle Mike's IWB holster)
7. Gerber pocket knife

You forgot to tell us #8 "What brand of suspenders are you wearing" to keep your pants up???

With the mag addition you may want to start carrying your 38 spc Taurus in a ankle holster. Are you thinking about adding a pocket pistol to your daily carry also? Dockers are your friend.

You're definately commited to conceal carry..:cool:
 
You forgot to tell us #8 "What brand of suspenders are you wearing" to keep your pants up???

With the mag addition you may want to start carrying your 38 spc Taurus in a ankle holster. Are you thinking about adding a pocket pistol to your daily carry also? Dockers are your friend.

You're definately commited to conceal carry..

LOL, I actualy have a nice leather belt that holds it all. I don't plan on adding a hold out pistol, I think 2 will suit me fine. I did briefly consider it though.
 
1) if as you say you feel threatened as you drive through a dangerous part of town, why you choose a setup that gives you access only to your .38 at the time in which you might need it most? You carry all that firepower and make it non accessible to you where the risk is higher

If I were attacked driving through that part of town, it would most likely be a car jacker. If they approach my car and I feel like I have to shoot I will. My G22 is accessible but is just not as easy to get without shifting around.

I wont be sticking around for a shootout though, I'll be shooting the assaulter and then trying to drive away to call the police. My .38 is a means to either end a close assault or as a means to get to my G22.

So you are in a car and you plan to shoot a .38, drive away and then reach for a G22? And you feel you need additional mags for the second gun?

Seriously, if you have a car and a gun there is no way you could possibly justify to the police the use of a second gun. How do you think it's going to play out in court?

I think you should have a conversation with a local attorney to understand exactly what kind of requirements your State has to justify a shooting. The way you are setting yourself up you are going to end up in trouble.

To answer your original question: yes, it's an overkill, and to top that up the entire second gun thing is useless when you have a possibility to leave the scene.

I completely understand the logic of better tried by 12 and all the good stuff, I carry regularly after all. But that logic does not apply at all when you are driving a vehicle and a quick egress is an option.

Would recommend you the book "In the gravest extreme" to make you ponder a bit to what kind of consequences you might encounter.
 
Nocturnus31 - I don't plan on adding a hold out pistol, I think 2 will suit me fine. I did briefly consider it though.

haha man I think you are a little paranoid to be honest, not the best way to go through life.
 
I really can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread. Dumbfounded, really.

So is everyone really of the opinion that anyone who carries a shoulder rig with a gun on one side and two mags to balance the weight on the other side a paranoid nut? Or do they only become a paranoid nut when they don't remove their EDC pocket pistol from their pocket when they add the other gun?

Or are they only a nut if the mag capacity is 7 rounds or more? Is it OK for someone to carry a 38 snubby and two speedloaders but not a 1911 and two mags? Or is it only unreasonable if it's a 9mm with 10+ rd mags?

What if I carry a 5-shot revolver and two reloads for a total of 15 shots? Does that mean I'm a nut if I have a 15rd 9mm and I carry 1 extra mag?

Where is the line? Any why on earth are you willing to allow some DA or lawyer to make your decisions for you? Haven't you noticed that the same arguments you listed are used regardless of what is carried? The presence of a gun alone is enough for those arguments. By your tones it sounds like you think they'd be justified in making the claims of trouble-seeking vigilante.

Mindboggling.

All I can say is, if carrying two extra mags in a shoulder-rig makes me a nut, well put a sign on my forehead, because that plus my .380 is exactly what I carry on the rare occassions I have to go places I'd rather not. I guess all the shooters around here are trouble-seeking vigilantes doomed to prison, because everyone who's seen it loves the setup...
 
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No reason to be dumbfounded I think. The OP did not mention load balancing. Clearly the intent was to improve his firepower.

Given the specific circumstances mentioned by the OP: 1) driving a vehicle 2) having difficult access to the gun for which the extra magazines were ordered but easy access to another gun some comments were made on the soundness of the tactic. This followed a very precise question from the OP, let's not forget it, who asked:

Do you guys think I'm going into overkill here?

Given the circumstances described by the OP, my answer is a clear "yes".
______________

As to the other point you make, that

Any why on earth are you willing to allow some DA or lawyer to make your decisions for you?

I don't let anybody make decisions for me, and I don't ask if I am going into underkill or overkill; I carry a 9mm with 15 rounds in the mag and one in the pipe, and that's that.

I also respect the law, and there are limitations as to when civilians can use firearms in self-defense. It's not some DA, it's the law I worry about. Read Massad Ayoob's book, inform yourself on the legal costs of defending yourself after a shooting and read on the various angles DA's use to prove the vigilante angle. Two guns? Modified spring on a Beretta 92 even if it has absolutely NOTHING to do with defending yourself, any modification to a gun might be used in court to prove you were looking for a confrontation and asking for it. Is it fair? Not at all.

Are you dumbfounded that I try to illustrate the point to somebody who risks to be described as trigger happy ("my 38 is a mean to reach for my Glock 22" or something along those lines)? I found it responsible to do so, maybe I worry too much.

As an instructor, I always stress the extreme gravity of pressing a trigger in self defense. It's a life changing event, and even though is better to still have a life that can be changed as opposed to being dead, the consequences from an emotional and financial point of view are staggering.

Recently, I read this post from Mas Ayoob's Self Defense forum on GT (his is the most interesting sub forum there by far) and took comfort:

I've gone in and testified a couple of times for advanced competitive shooters who were involved in self-defense shootings, and both times it was made clear to the triers of the facts (grand jury in one case, regular petit jury in the other) that this was a person who went above and beyond in living up to his responsibilities by making personal commitments to skill to make sure no mistakes would be made if the gun had to be used for real.

The grand jury case was an officer-involved shooting, and resulted in no true bill, effectively exonerating the officer. The same grand jury hammered and indicted the guy who attacked him and forced the cop to shoot him. The full-blown trial was a murder case, and the armed citizen defendant was acquitted on all counts.

I shoot competition wherever and whenever I can, and don't feel it will be a detriment at all if I'm ever the defendant in a use of force case.

Notice that he says that the full blown trial was a murder case: can you imagine what a wrecking thing is having to defend yourself in a murder case in the first place? How many thousands it will cost? It might be necessary to take that risk, but let's not pretend is some sort of joke.
 
Mostly what I've seen here is alot of good natured ribbing. In the original post the OP asked, "Do you guys think I'm going overkill?" Well that's just asking for a few off the cuff comments. As I've said, I carry a 357 snubby and hardly ever bother with a reload. but there was a time when I ran a bank route, picking up cashed checks early in the morning. You'd be suprised how many people were stupid enough to think that we were picking up cash anf throwing it in the back of pickups. Or that we had access to the bank safe. Back then I carried a 38 snubby in my pocket but also a pruned back 12 ga pump in a sports bag in the seat beside me. So carry what makes you feel righteous, but expect a few remarks. Everyone's a comedian online.
 
So is everyone really of the opinion that anyone who carries a shoulder rig with a gun on one side and two mags to balance the weight on the other side a paranoid nut?

Carrying two extra mags does not make me think the OP is paranoid, but when you feel the need to carry a second gun on person along with those two mags and a large capacity service size pistol I start to think you are a little paranoid. And then when you contemplate a 3rd pistol in the pocket to go along with the two other and two spare mags, then I know you are paranoid.
 
you still have to convince a group of 12 people (whom potentially have never even contemplated the realities of having to shoot someone, much less reload a gun or correct a malfunction) that you were not out "looking for trouble" when the prosecutor attacks your self defense by citing that you were carrying 45 rounds of ammunition in "military grade high capacity magazines" loaded with "exotic manslayers".

Hell, I'd be fine with a pistol, 2 mags, a knife, and an AR carbine in my trunk. But then I might as well change my name to Frank Castle though, since a prosecutor would have no problem turning my into the Punisher, out for vigilante justice.

My philosophy on the matter is to keep it in the realm of common calibers (9, .40, .45) Nothing too big (but nothing too small), nothing with scary words like "magnum" in the name. One mag in the gun, with another one ready in case that one fails loaded with JHP's (widely accepted in law enforcement world as being effective for having to shoot the assailant fewer times). I routinely maintain and testfire each magazine, and keep a rotation going. The idea being that I want something effective if I have to shoot someone, but nothing that will make a jury of non gun people say "HOLY HELL! THAT SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY HIGH POWERED ROUND!" The less selling your defense attorney has to do the more he can focus on the important facts of the case.
 
My G22 is accessible but is just not as easy to get without shifting around.
Hey Noc,
Have you thought about attaching a holster, kydex ect. to the console/dash area to carry a pistol while your driving. I also have a underseat lock box if I have to secure a pistol. Such as when I enter the post office to check my PO BOX. or pick up my kids from school early.
 
Wow, I seemed to have upset a lot of people. I am paranoid, I have had 3 Guns pointed at my head 3 different times in only 11 years. Yes, I am that unlucky to have been robbed at gun point 3 times in my life. After the third time is when I decided enough is enough, I'm getting my CCW and getting a gun.

Have any of you ever looked down the barrel of a loaded gun? Has anyone ever threatened to kill you and meant it? Have any of you ever had to beg for your life? Have any of you had your life flash before you and resolve to the idea that you were about to die? Huh?!? I have... 3 times.


Guys I'm not an idiot, I know when I should and shouldn't pull my gun and shoot. I'm not going to shoot a BG with my .38, drive off, pull my G22 and commence shooting. I know the consequences of shooting someone unjustly, life in prison or death penalty.

I am a law abiding citizen and have the utmost respect for my CCW permit and what it means to carry a deadly weapon around. I have 2 guns and lots of ammo to protect myself and my family, period.

I did ask if you guys thought I was going into overkill and I now regret asking that. I was expecting a little more support and a lot less criticism and stupid accusations.

Thanks.

Hey Noc,
Have you thought about attaching a holster, kydex ect. to the console/dash area to carry a pistol while your driving. I also have a underseat lock box if I have to secure a pistol. Such as when I enter the post office to check my PO BOX. or pick up my kids from school early.

Yes I have thought of that, I may do so in the future. And thank you for supporting my decision.
 
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Noc, I've caught a bit of flak myself asking for opinions. You don't have to justify anything to anyone. You have lived through what many would consider a nightmare situation. You carry a bit more than I do, but not much more, and I have no problem with either what you carry or why you choose to do so.

Practice, my friend. Practice drawing, practice reloading, practice transitioning from one weapon to the other, and especially practice shooting. If at all possible look into instruction such as that offered by groups like Suarez International.

Be well and be safe.
 
No reason to be dumbfounded I think. The OP did not mention load balancing. Clearly the intent was to improve his firepower.

not going to go back and search but I could've sworn the OP stated that he had an extra slot for another mag so was thinking about using it. That would not be firepower, and my first reply spoke about this too.
 
everything else aside and from a neutral position, I don't think paranoia has anything to do with it. Maybe overly efficient or a little obsessive(the not bad type). I mean it seems many of the posters of people against OPs mags, guns, etc are showing the same behavior.:D
 
I have only had guns pointed at me once, when I was in Central America.

That was many years ago so it doesnt really effect how things happen for me today

It was an AK47 so I doubt any choice of pistol calibers or ammo would have made a difference.

I was there on a mission trip with my church and this guy didnt know who we were and we were way up in the jungles.

So...... you have had a WORSE experiences than me and I can understand that you would want to have as much firepower as possible.


Here in the states, I carry my 8+1 45 M&P compact pistol only, no reloads, no BUG.


My reasoning is this:

1) The odds of me being in a confrontation where I need to use my pistol EVER in a self defense role is sort of like being hit by lightning. The fact is....its probably not going to happen. The facts state that even LEOs rarely fire their weapon.

As a side note on lighning, when it storms.... I leave the area. This decreases the chance of me being hit by lightning. I also dont hold up a metal pole.

This same thought-process can keep someone from being in a place where the chance of getting into an altercation is higher.

2) The facts also show that the vast majority of the exchanges for LEO, (again in the RARE cases that they DO use their weapon) ALMOST ALWAYS end up with 4 rounds or less being fired.

3) I also believe that just HAVING a gun may be enough in many cases as well, though there is no exact data that I have seen to support it. I have read on these boards where people have had a bum come up to them demanding money. When the gun is shown, the threat goes away in most cases.

(I would choose to NOT blast away in those cases, if the guy backed off.)

4) I currently live in the Dallas suburb of Frisco. The crime rate is almost nil.
If I lived or worked in a high crime area, I might think differently.

The odds of me EVER being robbed or threatened in Frisco texas are VERY small.

5) I have a very reliable pistol..... so far, I havent had a single failure.

The overwhelming odds are that my pistol WILL fire when I pull the trigger


For me its about the odds........ to me.... I feel more than safe enough.


I would add that I continualy practice to make sure that I can hit where I aim, so my shots though fewer, will "count"

It also is difficult (for me) to comfortably carry an extra mag in my pocket with the keys and cell phone already there. A bug would also seem to add to the "uncomfortable" level.

What is really great about our country and the state that you live in....... you can carry whatever YOU feel comfortable with and can conceal.

I would add that you MAY wish to seek to move to a safer place.......
3 muggings?????? Wow!
 
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I did ask if you guys thought I was going into overkill and I now regret asking that. I was expecting a little more support and a lot less criticism and stupid accusations.


You should know that name calling is not really mature, despite what you might think.

I have a simple solution for your problem: next time you ask a question, post the answer you would like to receive, it makes it easy to copy and paste it in the desired format. This way, the support is all but guaranteed.
 
It is always a good idea to carry an extra magazine of FMJ. I can't count how many times I've been met with an impromptu target shooting opportunity and been VERY happy I had 15 rounds of FMJ in a spare mag either on me, or in my car. Though you can probably keep that opportunity open by just carrying an extra box of ammo in your glovebox.

As for carrying them for defense... hey, bullets still work. It's not like someone who gets shot with a few FMJ rounds DIDN'T just get shot a few times. Yes there are better options for defense ammo, but between having some FMJ and not having anything, I'll take the FMJ. Do what makes sense to you. If you can carry two spare magazines AND two guns, more power to you. Does it impede your mobility at all (i.e. can you still Tactically Disengage with some amount of speed)?

~LT
 
The world is a dangerous place to live. Not because of people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
I always carry a second magazine.
 
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