Is there any PRACTICAL and effective way to persuade more 22LR?
- Thread starter Lavan
- Start date
Rembrandt said:
Amen!
I worked i manufacturing for quite a few years and was very skeptical when JIT became all the rage about 30 years ago. JIT works fairly well when there's a consistent, moderate demand for a product. As we're all seeing now, that's clearly not the case with rimfire ammo these days.
It'll take awhile for the system to catch up, or for the hoarders/flippers to max out their credit.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
Hear hear; truth.
jason_iowa
New member
I'm down to about 10k 22 rounds. Stores are still getting it in. Ill sell ya bulk packs for 100bucks FREE SHIPPING lol. I think by this time next year things will be back to semi normal.
A word of caution to the hoarders
Rimfire ammo can be finicky. We had an experience a few weeks ago while out shooting. A buddy of mine had some CCI 22lr that was about 20 years old and he was shooting it through his new S&W 617. As many as 4 out of each cylinder were squibs and this happened over and over again. He could take the unspent ammo out, turn them and some would eventually fire but he still ended up with many that never fired. He had no problem with 100% ignition with new ammo so it looks to me that 22lr can expire and be unreliable.
My advise to you hoarder out there with 100,000 round you are sitting on is go out and shoot it. I probably will get more and more unreliable as each year goes by. This is not the first time I have experienced this with old rimfire ammo.
Rimfire ammo can be finicky. We had an experience a few weeks ago while out shooting. A buddy of mine had some CCI 22lr that was about 20 years old and he was shooting it through his new S&W 617. As many as 4 out of each cylinder were squibs and this happened over and over again. He could take the unspent ammo out, turn them and some would eventually fire but he still ended up with many that never fired. He had no problem with 100% ignition with new ammo so it looks to me that 22lr can expire and be unreliable.
My advise to you hoarder out there with 100,000 round you are sitting on is go out and shoot it. I probably will get more and more unreliable as each year goes by. This is not the first time I have experienced this with old rimfire ammo.
22-rimfire
New member
There is no practical way of encouraging manufacturers to produce more 22LR.
As far as the previous comment on hoarders about having 100K rounds in your cache, well, I have never had a particular problem shooting even 50 year old 22 ammo if it has been stored indoors in a conditioned space. But if by chance the ammunition becomes unreliable, I have no problem just getting rid of it and buying more.
Added: 100K seems like a lot. 100K rounds composed of bulk packs might seem to be a waste (200 bulk packs) unless you are providing ammunition to a number of people. A store can sell that much easily in a single day. But 100K rounds of mixed quality target grade and promotional grade ammo is not hard to accumulate at all.
As far as the previous comment on hoarders about having 100K rounds in your cache, well, I have never had a particular problem shooting even 50 year old 22 ammo if it has been stored indoors in a conditioned space. But if by chance the ammunition becomes unreliable, I have no problem just getting rid of it and buying more.
Added: 100K seems like a lot. 100K rounds composed of bulk packs might seem to be a waste (200 bulk packs) unless you are providing ammunition to a number of people. A store can sell that much easily in a single day. But 100K rounds of mixed quality target grade and promotional grade ammo is not hard to accumulate at all.
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Flipper was a happy little dolphin. These guys are scalpers.
Let's just call a spade a spade here. The present shortage began when our fellow citizens RE-elected an anti-gun,anti-constitution and anti-business Marxist to the white house. IF you contributed to this outcome, YOU did this to us.
High profile shootings raised the specter of another AWB. Unencumbered by accountability, he and his minions declared regulatory war on the lead industry while placing HUGE government ammunition orders. The Obama antigun machine recently turned its efforts to the cheap import ammo market. All these factors contributed to an unprecedented demand for ammunition of all types with predictable shortages, price spikes and scalping. People shoot more .22 ammo than anything else and as such, it is our Achilles Heel.
It is also worth noting that a weekend spent with family/friends, burning obscene amounts of rimfire ammo, was one of the last bastions of individual freedom known to the current generation. Those days are just about gone. I'm sure the Haters of Freedom are dancing naked around the Shooter's Bible fires, cackling with glee.
Let's just call a spade a spade here. The present shortage began when our fellow citizens RE-elected an anti-gun,anti-constitution and anti-business Marxist to the white house. IF you contributed to this outcome, YOU did this to us.
High profile shootings raised the specter of another AWB. Unencumbered by accountability, he and his minions declared regulatory war on the lead industry while placing HUGE government ammunition orders. The Obama antigun machine recently turned its efforts to the cheap import ammo market. All these factors contributed to an unprecedented demand for ammunition of all types with predictable shortages, price spikes and scalping. People shoot more .22 ammo than anything else and as such, it is our Achilles Heel.
It is also worth noting that a weekend spent with family/friends, burning obscene amounts of rimfire ammo, was one of the last bastions of individual freedom known to the current generation. Those days are just about gone. I'm sure the Haters of Freedom are dancing naked around the Shooter's Bible fires, cackling with glee.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
"Down to" 10,000 rounds, lol!
here in the Plattsburgh NY, every other month lately gander MT. has been getting bricks in. Usually fed. or Remington. I have been able to build up a supply, but we can't seem to find .22 mag. I'm down to my last 150 rounds! My henry .22 mag golden boy is just sitting in the safe collecting dust.
Technosavant
New member
It's really seeming that in the last 2-3 weeks it's really starting to ease up. Prices are still high, but I'm actually seeing .22LR bricks advertised. They are usually charging $0.10/round or so... which is not quite double what they were, but at least it's starting to be in stock. Next the price will come down.
You will get used to the high prices of 22 LR, just as you have gotten used to $4.00 a gallon gasoline. Why should a manufacturer put huge money into creating production capacity when their profits are high and everything they make is sold before it hits the shelves? Building more capacity is risky: if the market demand drops, they are stuck with all this expensive equipment.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
They're not building more capacity. This is a temporary panic, just like the numerous previous panics, all of which ended and returned prices to pre- panic and prices. Sometimes, lower prices prevail until supply equalizes after the panic ends.
I may be wrong, but this is what I do. I pay the price the online sellers have. I try to buy maybe a month's worth at a time to dilute the shipping charges.
My only local options are a couple of WalMarts. To go to Dick's, Academy, Bass Pro, Gander Mtn etc involves drive time and 3-4 gallons of gas. So online is my least terrible option until it becomes common at WM.
I am not going to quit shooting, so I will pay what I can afford and be happy when supply and demand equalizes.
My only local options are a couple of WalMarts. To go to Dick's, Academy, Bass Pro, Gander Mtn etc involves drive time and 3-4 gallons of gas. So online is my least terrible option until it becomes common at WM.
I am not going to quit shooting, so I will pay what I can afford and be happy when supply and demand equalizes.
Technosavant
New member
They are indeed doing so. From CCI's own site:
Note the bolded part.
I want to say I've heard others are also adding capacity, but as has already been pointed out, one does not simply add .22LR manufacturing capacity. It takes time and capital. I do think the rush for rimfire ammo reflects not just a panic but also a generally increased desire for the caliber. One quick look at gunmaker catalogs will reveal the reason why- there's been a flood of .22LR firearms lately. Where they used to be mostly just small game or target-specific firearms, now there's a wide array of guns made as training tools for their centerfire brethren. Umarex is practically a household name now based on their rimfire clones.
Even as the panic dies down, I do believe there's a generally higher "floor" for demand. That is indeed going to mean higher prices in the long run (although I maintain $0.10/round is still too high... if rimfire costs are within striking distance of centerfire calibers some will just shoot the centerfire and call it a day). But later this year I imagine things will have reverted somewhat- generally easy to find the ammo at somewhat lower prices than we have now (although I think $20/brick prices are gone).
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, I should say that they're not building capacity because of this panic. Businesses are always improving and, as they say, adding capacity when "sustained demand" indicates it. This isn't "sustained demand". It's a self-induced panic. They know it and we know it. They're not building capacity to meet THIS demand because it will all sit idle as soon as we get our collective heads out of our collective rears.
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Technosavant
New member
Oh, that I'd definitely agree with.
They see a need to add capacity, but adding capacity for these lines of people waiting to buy 2-3 bricks per person per day is just ludicrous. Nobody shoots that much. They're going to try to satisfy the demand they think is going to be more or less "normal" going forward. That is likely rather higher than it's been, but yeah... these days of ammo flippers doubling their money on .22 bricks is rapidly coming to a close.
I know it's not rimfire, but I just got an email with 5.56 XM193 at a very slight shade more than it was back pre-panic, so that has pretty much returned to normal. Won't be too much longer and rimfire will as well.
I do expect people will maintain somewhat higher levels of personal stock but even that's easy enough to handle. As supplies return, people who would only buy a brick when heading out shooting may keep 2-3 bricks at home all the time now and replace it when they shoot it. That's going to cause a very slight double dip in supplies (enough supply shows up to meet demand, people buy it to stock up, supply drops off for a short time, but once people are stocked they quit buying and it returns to normal).
Ammunition has resulted in an amusing applied economics lesson lately.
They see a need to add capacity, but adding capacity for these lines of people waiting to buy 2-3 bricks per person per day is just ludicrous. Nobody shoots that much. They're going to try to satisfy the demand they think is going to be more or less "normal" going forward. That is likely rather higher than it's been, but yeah... these days of ammo flippers doubling their money on .22 bricks is rapidly coming to a close.
I know it's not rimfire, but I just got an email with 5.56 XM193 at a very slight shade more than it was back pre-panic, so that has pretty much returned to normal. Won't be too much longer and rimfire will as well.
I do expect people will maintain somewhat higher levels of personal stock but even that's easy enough to handle. As supplies return, people who would only buy a brick when heading out shooting may keep 2-3 bricks at home all the time now and replace it when they shoot it. That's going to cause a very slight double dip in supplies (enough supply shows up to meet demand, people buy it to stock up, supply drops off for a short time, but once people are stocked they quit buying and it returns to normal).
Ammunition has resulted in an amusing applied economics lesson lately.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Yes, I should say that they're not building capacity because of this panic. "
Actually, they may well be.
Good business practices involve looking at all aspects of a situation.
One thing CCI is looking at, of course, is how well .22 ammo is selling.
Another think they're looking at? The number of .22 rifles and handguns that have gone out the door in this panic and the one that preceeded it.
I'd say that they've made the considered decision that, for some time to come, demand for ammo is going to remain elevated past what it was prior to the first panic in 2007 simply because there are so many new gun owners and so many new guns in circulation.
That's actually not a bad business decision. If it is their business decision.
Actually, they may well be.
Good business practices involve looking at all aspects of a situation.
One thing CCI is looking at, of course, is how well .22 ammo is selling.
Another think they're looking at? The number of .22 rifles and handguns that have gone out the door in this panic and the one that preceeded it.
I'd say that they've made the considered decision that, for some time to come, demand for ammo is going to remain elevated past what it was prior to the first panic in 2007 simply because there are so many new gun owners and so many new guns in circulation.
That's actually not a bad business decision. If it is their business decision.
I have been stockpiling ammo for 25 years and have .22 LR that I bought nearly 30 years ago . I still shop around and find Renington gold bullet hollow points or CCI mini mag hollow points and get them at retail price . I know some flippers and they say the trick is use the technology they watch the big box stores web site on thier phone and are check the inventory for that companies local store and when it shows instock it will be there when they unload the truck . This isn't worth the trouble to me but that is the inside connection they use . Smart phone .
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I have been stockpiling ammo for 25 years..."
OK, everyone, we're going to be riding out the zombie apocalypse at psalm7's house!
OK, everyone, we're going to be riding out the zombie apocalypse at psalm7's house!