Is there any PRACTICAL and effective way to persuade more 22LR?

L

Lavan

New member
from the ammo mfrs?

This is bordering on ridiculous. It just doesn't make any sense that it is nearly TWO YEARS of no 22s on the shelf.

So they're making other calibers. whoopee.
MOST shooting has always been with the ole .22.

I don't want to think this is some conspiracy to discourage shooting and introducing newbies into the hobby, but there should be some way to pressure the mfrs to build whatever is necessary to bring the supply somewhat up to the demand.

I would think that we hoarders from MANY years ago have satisfied what they want in stock.

Any thoughts? :confused:
 
1. The Hoarders are still out. Ask a store - they still have folks waiting on truck day opening.

2. Why should companies invest in physical plant that would be useless when the hoarders finally (if ever -:rolleyes:) come to their senses.
 
So they're making other calibers. whoopee.
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Rimfire ammunition is not produced on machinery used for centerfire ammunition, and centerfire ammunition is not produced on machinery used for rimfire ammunition.

Rimfire ammunition is produced on its own, specialized sets of equipment. Producing centerfire ammunition does not diminish or impact rimfire production, unless there is a shortage of materials or manpower (neither being an issue right now).
 
1. The Hoarders are still out. Ask a store - they still have folks waiting on truck day opening.
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Those are really not the hoarders. Those are the flippers. There are people where I live that pay others to stand in line with them to buy .22lr then turn around and flip it for profit.
 
Flippers exist because the shooting public by and large is willing to pay 10+ cents a round for .22lr.

Retail stores are pricing it at say 5 cents a round, so it is a quick double of their money. If you don't make that much per hour, then it might be worth your time.

It isn't worth my time to try and buy 3 bricks for $75 to flip for $150.

That said...if I run out of .22lr and my buddy can't get me more, then I will be paying $50 a brick. Better to have it at 10 cents a round than not have it.
 
I had my doubts about the flippers until my last gun show. There was a guy selling bricks for $40 - $50. A friend of mine told me the seller was buying bricks early in the AM at Sports Authority and had connections with Wal-Mart know when a shipment was in.

Interestingly, this guy was not very popular and disparaged the first day of the show. He and his overpriced ammo did not show the following Sunday.

I still see 22lr advertised locally in newspapers etc. for double or more retail.
 
A friend of mine told me the seller was buying bricks early in the AM at Sports Authority and had connections with Wal-Mart know when a shipment was in.
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Don't read too much into those "connections".
All you have to do is ask, and they'll tell you when the next truck is coming in.


Around here, most of the stores are even posting dates for the arrival of high demand ammunition. (Don't know about WalMart - I won't step foot in their door.)
For example, possibly on a white board:
Next truck: Thursday 5:45 am
Ammo on the truck: .22 LR, 9mm, .260 Rem, .45-70, 16 ga, lots of .30-06 and .45 ACP
Reloading stuff on the truck: 9mm bullets, 6mm bullets!, .223 brass, pistol brass, misc rifle dies, RCBS press kits, and more
Next powder shipment: June :(
 
Ask the WM clerks when shipments arrive? BT/DT and they always tell me the time varies. Also, they tell me they almost never receive any .22LR. But it's strange how there's never a line at the ammo counter unless some actually does come in. I wonder how those same few guys always know the precise days and times to be there...
 
The guy who works at the local wally world tells me the best time to try to get ammo is at 8AM on Wednesday morning. Sometimes I can get it, other times I am too late. But I do agree that I am not one to pay silly prices for ammo.

I had a guy offer to sell me 50 rounds of .22 cal ammo for $15.00 a box. I told him I thought smoking crack was illegal.
 
Every rimfire manufacturer I've seen weigh in on the issue will tell you they're running flat out... there's just no excess production capacity. They ARE trying to expand but that doesn't happen quickly. It takes time to set up new manufacturing space, get the equipment, and obtain components. They simply can't ramp it up any more than they've done or any faster.

It's really a mixture of things all pushing demand. There's more shooters than there were a few years ago. All those shooters have .22LR guns and new .22s come out on the market constantly. .22 is also easier to shoot a LOT of than other calibers; while 200-300 rounds of 9mm would be a pretty full day for most people it's easy enough to shoot a full 500 round brick of .22 without fatigue. Then there's the hoarders who aren't happy if they don't have 20K rounds on hand and the flippers who buy every bit they can only to resell it at double the price (that won't end until people quit buying from them).

I've started to see a bit more .22LR in stock- at higher prices and not much selection, but it's beginning to come back.
 
Good article here. It is a lot more involved than hoarders. Although they contribute to the problem.

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/why-cant-i-find-22-lr-ammunition/

Long story short, ammo makers are running full production, making 25 million rounds a day. While that seems like a lot, at that rate it would take roughly 2-4 years of production to make one 500 round bulk pack of ammo for each American gun owner. And that is if everyone stopped buying and shooting for the next 2-4 years. As the article states there are between 35-70 million gun owners in the USA and each of them probably owns at least one 22. Twenty five million rounds per day is less than 1 bullet per day for each gun owner even if you use the conservative number of 35 million gun owners.
 
Ammo manufacturers don't make much money on rimfire ammo, so there's little incentive to temporarily ramp up production now, only to have a lot of expensive, underutilized equipment, later.
Where do these flippers sell their ammo? Gunbroker is apparently not the place, as the overpriced rimfire often goes without a bid.
In my area, stores that actually have ammo, when you want to buy it, are charging 12-17 cents a round. Ammo is for sale for 5 cents, at 10:50AM on Tuesdays in some places, and 8:00 AM on Mondays, in others.
 
Ask the WM clerks when shipments arrive? BT/DT and they always tell me the time varies. Also, they tell me they almost never receive any .22LR. But it's strange how there's never a line at the ammo counter unless some actually does come in. I wonder how those same few guys always know the precise days and times to be there...
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That's because they don't know and don't want to sound stupid. Shipments don't just randomly show up at WalMarts dock at random times. They know what's coming and when. Sure the "clerk" doesn't know, but management knows. They may not get everything they ordered, as in the shortages are unpredictable, but they know when the ammo delivery will be there.

Where do these flippers sell their ammo?
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I believe that the flipping has mostly stopped and it's primarily the hoarders who remain.

The whole thing is almost over. Stock is lasting longer than it was a few weeks ago. Online stores are reporting prices for CCI ammo around 8 cents a round and it stays in stock for days or weeks at a time. That was unheard of just a couple of months ago.

Stores are also reporting regular resupply. Rather than "Yeah! Good luck! I haven't seen any in 2 months!" it has become "Yeah, we get a pallet every few days and it sells out in a couple hours."

Whoever is buying it will run out of money or credit eventually and supplies will return to normal.

In all likelihood, there will be a supply glut and prices will temporarily drop until it stabilizes.
 
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"Producing centerfire ammunition does not diminish or impact rimfire production"

Not 100% true.

Two components are common across both lines -- lead and brass.

Increased pressure on lead and brass supply and production can have a trickle down effect on all production.

Centerfire ammo is generally more profitable than rimfire, so the companies are going to be putting more resources towards centerfire production. If they need more lead for bullets, it's got to be diverted from somewhere if the supply is tight (which it has been).

Same with brass. Brass is even more sensitive because the ammo makers generally don't produce their own cartridge brass - they buy it manufactured to their specifications.

Even the cartridge brass producers have been squeezed by increased demand of the raw materials that go into the brass and on the heightened demand from their consumers. Brass manufacturers have been struggling to keep up, and as with lead, the ammo companies are going to put their emphasis on purchasing what gives them the most profit.
 
Mike Irwin states it very well....imagine being in a business that can raise prices, in a recesssion, and sell everything that you can produce with a huge amount of backorders? And no new competitors in the wings.....How sweet it is!!!!!!
 
Still haven't seen any 22lr in the wild here, but Wal Mart has been getting 22 short in lately, both boxes and bricks. It's actually lasting a few days at a time.
 
Mike Irwin said:
Not 100% true.

Two components are common across both lines -- lead and brass.

Increased pressure on lead and brass supply and production can have a trickle down effect on all production.
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...... You cut off the end of that sentence:
FrankenMauser said:
Producing centerfire ammunition does not diminish or impact rimfire production, unless there is a shortage of materials or manpower (neither being an issue right now).
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The supply may be tight right now, but there's still enough to go around. Some manufacturers are having to pay a premium for the materials they need, but they're still able to get everything they need.
 
Yes, I did cut the quote. My bad.


"The supply may be tight right now, but there's still enough to go around."

Once again, that's a maybe.

Both lead and brass used by the cartridge industry tend to be very specific (often manufacturer specific) blends.

Depending on what is happening in the rest of the brass and lead industry, they may not be adequately available because of demand by other industries for other blends.

It is an extremely intricate dance.
 
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