Most of the wallhangers I see are because folks took those guns and used them for pry bars, boat oars, tomato stakes and left them out in the rain so they rusted up. Currently, I have seen ammo range from 2-3.5" and in bore sizes ranging from 410, 32, 28, 24, 20, 16, 12, and 10. (Not including any of the BP guns).
Is the Single Barrel Shotty a thing of the past.
- Thread starter deerslayer303
- Start date
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Who would buy an H&R when you can get one of THESE for $200?
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I realize both the checkering and engraving were done by machine, probably relatively cheap laser jobs, that gun doesn't exhibit the fit and finish of the Beretta badged imports of that design, let alone an actual Beretta, but I think it is heads above a Maverick 88s fit and finish. Probably weighs a couple pounds less, and my Italian import handles much better than any pump I've touched.
In another thread I linked to a like designed gun with fit and finish similar to the old H&Rs or the maveraick class guns. I'm betting when I figure out who is importing that make I will be able to get one for about $125.
In another thread I linked to a like designed gun with fit and finish similar to the old H&Rs or the maveraick class guns. I'm betting when I figure out who is importing that make I will be able to get one for about $125.
deerslayer303
New member
John,
That is a nice looking Single Shot! I will have to look into it further. I still need to find an H&R Topper with a Modified Choke to use with my 209 Adapter. I've been having a ball using it with my old full choke gun. I've even worked up a great patterning load for Turkey. Why? Because its fun thats it.
That is a nice looking Single Shot! I will have to look into it further. I still need to find an H&R Topper with a Modified Choke to use with my 209 Adapter. I've been having a ball using it with my old full choke gun. I've even worked up a great patterning load for Turkey. Why? Because its fun thats it.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I think he meant to test his reloads, not the gun.
Sporting clays shooters will often keep loads on hand that far exceed SAAMI specs.
Deerslayer,
One of the actual manufacturers with a fw other models and options.
http://www.investarm.com/news_monocanna_eng.html
They also make a few rifles of similar design. My 12 ga shotgun is super light with a straight stock. I really have to watch what I feed it. I had a gunsmith do a little work on it for me and when he gave it back he said he test fired it with some light trap loads he had laying around. He said next time my shoulder could do the test firing.
Sporting clays shooters will often keep loads on hand that far exceed SAAMI specs.
Deerslayer,
One of the actual manufacturers with a fw other models and options.
http://www.investarm.com/news_monocanna_eng.html
They also make a few rifles of similar design. My 12 ga shotgun is super light with a straight stock. I really have to watch what I feed it. I had a gunsmith do a little work on it for me and when he gave it back he said he test fired it with some light trap loads he had laying around. He said next time my shoulder could do the test firing.
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stonewall50
New member
Sporting clays?
I have never shot sporting clays, and I really should.
That said, what are the "rules" for sporting clays with regard to the shotshells?
Trap is quite specific as to what is legal, never mind what some guys bring to meat shoots. Heck you can tell by the report and the recoil that they are not shooting legal trap loads.
I have never shot sporting clays, and I really should.
That said, what are the "rules" for sporting clays with regard to the shotshells?
Trap is quite specific as to what is legal, never mind what some guys bring to meat shoots. Heck you can tell by the report and the recoil that they are not shooting legal trap loads.
jaguarxk120
New member
And what's wrong with 24 gram loads?
A 24 gram load is 1/4 ounce less shot than the 1 1/8 ounce "standard" loading.
A 24 gram load is 1/4 ounce less shot than the 1 1/8 ounce "standard" loading.
Arizona Fusilier
New member
I know the "gestalt" is not the same as the OP intended, but those Rossi Matched Pairs give you your single barrel shotgun, and a rifle caliber to boot.
As far as the "classic" single-shot shotgun, they will be in pawn shops, the Internet, and everyone's inheritance for the next 100 years.
As far as the "classic" single-shot shotgun, they will be in pawn shops, the Internet, and everyone's inheritance for the next 100 years.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I've been in shootoffs beyond 50 yards. SAAMI spec for 12 ga is 11,500 PSI. Most modern guns, especially competition O/U or single barrels can handle significantly more safely. You can call it 12GA +P if you like.
I regularly shoot targets over 50 yards in sporting clays. Just replace the LM with the LF choke and break the targets. You can't buy loads over SAAMI, so if someone is handoading hot rod ammo, I'd stand fairly far away so when the gun explodes, it is only his hands and face that get hit with the shrapnel. Velocity is one thing, pressure is another. George Digweed, and Englishman and multiple world champion in sporting shot some targets for fun with a crowd watching that were right at 130 yards away - and broke them. Now I believe he was using number 5s in the load (his favorite pigeon load), but there was nothing over the CIP limits - and there doesn't need to be.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I misused sporting clays. I meant clay shooting. Just the general shoot a clay going through the air for sport. I know, I know, the blasphemy.
Yeah, over pressure rounds.
I'm not talking about in registered shoots. One of the places I would shoot at would run a registered shoots with a few fun ones mixed in. Things like "buddy shoots" and 5 stand.
To be clear, I meant from the 50 yard line in shoot offs. As in, 50 yards from the trap house. I'm not sure how far the trap machine throws, but I know there was once heated discussion about whether one of my shots broke the clay or it hit the ground, so pretty much out to whatever range that would be.
I just used google maps to measure on the range and it looks like just over 100 yards, maybe 105 and it was in fact 50 yards from the trap house. I'm guessing that method is accurate within a few yards. They planted a blue spruce to mark the shoot-off line. If there were a couple good shooters we would start stepping back every round after a few rounds. If it went 6 or 7 rounds you could get really far back.
"Hot rodded" handloads, yes. I put a few through one of the loaders guns(I borrowed for the shoot-off when I had a Moss 500 and target loads). I mostly used Remington Nitro Pheasant loads in my shotgun, which were the stoutest factory loads I could get locally, and I was at a distinct disadvantage, although it was certainly still possible to break at the long ranges.
All the +P+ pistol rounds, and some of the +p, are off SAAMI charts. You don't ever shoot those? The 12 GA limits are REALLY conservative because they were designed to be safe in 100+ year old cheap farm utility guns that were some of the absolutely worst made center-fires in history. Shooting a slightly "hot-rodded" 12 ga shells is really low on the list of stupid things I've done. In fact, it really doesn't make the list. How about when people load those 30,000 PSI pistol cartridges in shotguns with the sub cal adapters? Heck, I've seen them for centerfire rifle cartridges. Sure that short bit of barrel reinforces the chamber, but what about everything else? Those pipe shotguns? I keep waiting for one of them to blow up, but I never hear about one doing so. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying load them to 30,000 PSI or anything. I'm not sure what the recoil would be on that, but fairly unpleasant to put it mildly.
It is clear that observing the normal over-pressure signs for metallic cartridges means you are WAY over pressure in a shotgun, but how often have you heard of people shooting such loads without ill effects? Decent shotguns can simply handle WAY more than SAAMI. Any sort of half-hearted heat treating on a heavy gun will do so.
BTW, I'd really like you to show me how to change the choke back and forth in that BT-99 I had sometime. I owned it for years and I never could quite seem to figure how to remove the factory choke. I sold it to a friend, but I'm sure he'd enjoy the demonstration also
Yeah, over pressure rounds.
I'm not talking about in registered shoots. One of the places I would shoot at would run a registered shoots with a few fun ones mixed in. Things like "buddy shoots" and 5 stand.
To be clear, I meant from the 50 yard line in shoot offs. As in, 50 yards from the trap house. I'm not sure how far the trap machine throws, but I know there was once heated discussion about whether one of my shots broke the clay or it hit the ground, so pretty much out to whatever range that would be.
I just used google maps to measure on the range and it looks like just over 100 yards, maybe 105 and it was in fact 50 yards from the trap house. I'm guessing that method is accurate within a few yards. They planted a blue spruce to mark the shoot-off line. If there were a couple good shooters we would start stepping back every round after a few rounds. If it went 6 or 7 rounds you could get really far back.
"Hot rodded" handloads, yes. I put a few through one of the loaders guns(I borrowed for the shoot-off when I had a Moss 500 and target loads). I mostly used Remington Nitro Pheasant loads in my shotgun, which were the stoutest factory loads I could get locally, and I was at a distinct disadvantage, although it was certainly still possible to break at the long ranges.
All the +P+ pistol rounds, and some of the +p, are off SAAMI charts. You don't ever shoot those? The 12 GA limits are REALLY conservative because they were designed to be safe in 100+ year old cheap farm utility guns that were some of the absolutely worst made center-fires in history. Shooting a slightly "hot-rodded" 12 ga shells is really low on the list of stupid things I've done. In fact, it really doesn't make the list. How about when people load those 30,000 PSI pistol cartridges in shotguns with the sub cal adapters? Heck, I've seen them for centerfire rifle cartridges. Sure that short bit of barrel reinforces the chamber, but what about everything else? Those pipe shotguns? I keep waiting for one of them to blow up, but I never hear about one doing so. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying load them to 30,000 PSI or anything. I'm not sure what the recoil would be on that, but fairly unpleasant to put it mildly.
It is clear that observing the normal over-pressure signs for metallic cartridges means you are WAY over pressure in a shotgun, but how often have you heard of people shooting such loads without ill effects? Decent shotguns can simply handle WAY more than SAAMI. Any sort of half-hearted heat treating on a heavy gun will do so.
BTW, I'd really like you to show me how to change the choke back and forth in that BT-99 I had sometime. I owned it for years and I never could quite seem to figure how to remove the factory choke. I sold it to a friend, but I'm sure he'd enjoy the demonstration also
pressure
Shotguns can take a lot of abuse. One episode/article in the "Finding Out for Myself" series by Sherman Bell in "The Double Gun Journal" involved testing a number of vintage shotguns to destruction. The guns were all SXSs. They held out to the high 20kpsi region.
More of an issue in the "load your own" high pressure shotshells is knowing what pressure they actually are. Metal fatigue is cumulative. A gun might be apparently fine for a while with high pressure shells. How long is a while?
About choke tubes in the BT-99........
What is the problem there? I have a BT-99. I fit the choke wrench into the choke and spin it out. Pick another choke and spin it in. How hard is that?
Most Trap shooters that I have seen break the targets at about 35 yards from the 16 yard line. Some sooner. Some later. The birds themselves will travel 48-52 yards before grounding.
So...distance to the rising bird from 50 yards back of the Trap house is about 70-75 yards. Birds are on the ground at about 100 yards.
The problem with overpressure in a shotgun is not so much the pressure at the breech but pressure further down the barrel where it is much thinner. The high pressure developed by a pistol or a rifle cartridge in an adapter drops wildly as soon as the bullet leaves the "muzzle".
Shotguns can take a lot of abuse. One episode/article in the "Finding Out for Myself" series by Sherman Bell in "The Double Gun Journal" involved testing a number of vintage shotguns to destruction. The guns were all SXSs. They held out to the high 20kpsi region.
More of an issue in the "load your own" high pressure shotshells is knowing what pressure they actually are. Metal fatigue is cumulative. A gun might be apparently fine for a while with high pressure shells. How long is a while?
About choke tubes in the BT-99........
What is the problem there? I have a BT-99. I fit the choke wrench into the choke and spin it out. Pick another choke and spin it in. How hard is that?
Fifty yards from the Trap house.....thirty four or so yards off the 16 yard line.
Most Trap shooters that I have seen break the targets at about 35 yards from the 16 yard line. Some sooner. Some later. The birds themselves will travel 48-52 yards before grounding.
So...distance to the rising bird from 50 yards back of the Trap house is about 70-75 yards. Birds are on the ground at about 100 yards.
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Sorry, you have a LOT to learn about reloading shotguns. As to pistols, personally, in MY guns, I have found the best accuracy to be a mid level to upper regular levels, nothing in +p or +P+ is worth anything for accuracy.....again, in MY guns.
Modern shotgun loads were NOT designed for 100 year old cheap farm guns; there are modern-made low pressure loads for those old things, IF they pass muster by a true gunsmith and not some Glock parts-changer.......
SAAMI levels for pressure are noted; loading above those is not only foolish and stupid, but dangerous to the shooter and those around him. I watched an idiot do just that with a model 42. Blew up a classic Winchester 410 ( worth about $1800) from using a double powder charge for "grins and giggles". Luckily, no one was hurt or killed, but his gun was destroyed. Do something like that with a 12, with lower pressure tolerances, and you've created a bomb.