Is the .40 really more powerful than 9mm?
- Thread starter Oysterboy
- Start date
Walklightly
Moderator
Before I bought my 9mm. I was told buy a police buddy to got a 40cal because the 9mm over penetrates.
He's a S-Cal PO.
He's a S-Cal PO.
Oysterboy, I believe those Winchester 147 grain rounds have a very bad reputation for not being able to expand well at all. I would look into purchasing some standard pressure HST in 147 grain from TDS or elsewhere, or go back to your PDX:
http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/t...UM_TACTICAL_HST_147grn_9mm_P9HST2_-_50_ROUNDS
http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/t...UM_TACTICAL_HST_147grn_9mm_P9HST2_-_50_ROUNDS
Crow Hunter
New member
So you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that that 1st shot you make will be a fight stopping shot every single time?
You can draw from concealment and hit a thumb width target that is moving at 3 to 15 yards every single time with only one shot? If you can, you need to open a training school. I'll be your first student.
Now for a thought experiment.
If I can get a shot that severs the spinal cord with the 1st shot with a .40 and I do it with a 9mm. Which is better?
If I miss that thumb width target on the 1st shot, and I can get 4 more shots into a vital zone to let air in and blood out with a 9mm versus 2 or maybe only 1 with a .40. Which is better?
If a target has 6 .355 diameter holes adding up to 2.13" versus 3 .40 diameter holes adding up to 1.2" diameter. Which is better?
If you can use a .40 as good as you can use a 9mm. You are definitely better off using the .40 because it is a larger bullet, it will crush more tissue and it does penetrate both flesh and intermediate barriers better than a 9mm.
Most people, myself included, can't. It takes way more practice to get to that level of proficiency than most non professional shooters have the time and money to achieve.
If you can, color me impressed, I wish I had your skill.
Deaf Smith
New member
Targets don't shoot back, targets don't move in odd directions, targets don't have innocents about them, and targets don't sometimes expose only part of themselves while shooting at you.
I'm not saying you will DIE if you use a 9mm instead of a .40 (or anything else) but do not expect to get x number of shots off nor x number of hits nor x number of GOOD hits.
And that is why you pick the most powerful round you can shoot well and with reasonable speed and then practice practice practice.
Deaf
starscream66
Inactive
when comparing a 9mm to a .45 the guy at the gun counter said "would you rather get hit by a bike going 100 mph or a train going 60?" when my mom said that the bike seems preferable he said exactly and thats why you want to use the train for stopping power. my point is you have to look at kinetic energy on targetm because even though a 9mm goes faster than a .40 or a .45, the .40 has more stopping power because it has more kinetic energy
Crow Hunter said:
If that is the case then I could only assume you are one of those people who's "break point" on being able to deal well with recoil falls in the fairly narrow band between 9mm +P and .40 S&W. If that is the case it is fine, as both calibers are more than capable of handling the majority of SD situations. As I mentioned earlier I carry 9mm myself almost as often as 10mm.
However, I would suggest that .45acp is actually easier to control than 9mm +P for many people and is a more powerful cartridge. I would also suggest it might be worth considering getting some good formal training on recoil control with .40 so you can shoot it as effectively as 9mm. Either way you benefit in both calibers and maybe you do move up to a more powerful round that might make a difference to your life or another's some day.
Ive been shooting for along time and i avoided the 9mm untill a couple months ago. I always thought the 9mm was weak and liked my .40 .45 and 10mm. But after doing my own tests of accuracy speed and penetration i now carry the 9mm i shoot it better and faster. Just a couple months ago i was one of those guys that bashed the 9mm now its my favorite bad guy caliber. I still like my 10mm in the woods though.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
I like my 40's I love my 45's and I like my 9's they're all fully capable of defending your life if and when need be. Everyone gets so heated...its really about shot placement and what the individual shoots better. Look at the big picture people.
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Crow Hunter
New member
Exactly. If you miss on your 1st shot or only get a peripheral hit. Can you get back on target and make the hits that you need to with a .40 or a .45? If you can. A more powerful round IS BETTER. 3 hits with a .40 or .45 definitely trumps 3 hits with a 9mm assuming similar impact points. But if you can get 2 of those 9mm hits on a moving fighting target and only 1 with a .40/.45, the 9mm is better.
However, most people who don't shoot for a living can't and therefore are less "effective" with a more powerful round that will undoubtedly do more damage on the target.
For some people it might be. If you have a .45 in the same frame size as the 9mm. Many .45's are larger, especially with Glocks. (The guns that I shoot the best) I have been carrying a concealed weapon since 1997 and I have been to formal training on several different occasions. The last training I did required alot of shooting on the move from lots of odd angles with less than perfect "form". The only guys I saw doing it well with more powerful rounds were the Memphis SWAT team guys, but they do it for a living. I know they were using .40 because some hot brass went down the back of my wife's pants during a drill and I had to dig it out.
I started with Glock 21, then a G30, G22, G27, G23 and finally a G19. During that same time period, I also owned trained with and tried to CCW a Sig 229, Sig 220, USP 40, Beretta 92F, Walther P5, Sig P232, S&W 409, S&W 640, S&W 686+, & Browning HP.
The G23/G19 frame size was the most concealable and effective for me to shoot. The G19 was my wifes carry gun because she couldn't control the G23. I would usually shoot her gun some too and I ALWAYS shot more accurately and faster with it than I could my personal G23. So I switched to the G19 and I went to my very 1st GSSF shoot (My 1st ever competition shoot) and got 10th place. If I hadn't gotten carried away and lost 10 points for shooting 1 extra popper on the Glock M, I would have been in 4th place.
My experience is that most people cannot control recoil without significant practice time. My advice is always to do the opposite of what I personally did.
Start with a 9mm, get "effective" with that. Try a .45 or a .40 and if you are "effective" enough to control the more powerful rounds. Go for it. I am an engineer by trade, and my life does not revolve around shooting. Ergo, I choose something that I can stay proficient with my minimal practice time.
As an aside. People should investigate what those who currently are or used to shoot people for a living and are currently in the business of training others carry and shoot.
Most of them don't use a .40 or .45....
If, however, you feel more confident with and shoot just as good with a more powerful round as you do a 9mm, I would go with that.
Personally, I don't.
9mm
OOPS, I edited this comment as I did not answer the OP's question. Yes, I believe the .40 is more powerful than the 9mm. Based on recoil and bullet weight. However, being more powerful MAY not mean being the best for self defense. Based on the "speed shooting" I'm trying to accomplish.
Inspired by S&W shooter McCulick (spelling??) whose speed shooting is about 11 rounds a second I believe (and he's accurate too!). I've been speed shooting extensively trying to learn, and having fun. I have no timer but a guestimate of my speed is 7 or so rounds a second. With a 9mm Glock 19 I can keep all rounds in the chest area of a silhouette at 8 yards. With a .40 Glock 23 I get more dispersal and rounds creeping "up" the target. With a 1911 .45 I get a more vertical line of rounds from center mass up through the "head" of the target and at times "off target" rounds. All calibers are pretty much the same in speed. The 9mm is much more accurate though in aiming for center mass in shooting. I have no idea which would be more effective in a real situation (and hope to never know). My "speed shooting" experience has shown me that in "room" distance encounters, a high capacity pistol is what I would prefer to have. I like the 1911 but more and more dislike the capacity. As far as speed and accuracy the 9mm is superior.
OOPS, I edited this comment as I did not answer the OP's question. Yes, I believe the .40 is more powerful than the 9mm. Based on recoil and bullet weight. However, being more powerful MAY not mean being the best for self defense. Based on the "speed shooting" I'm trying to accomplish.
Inspired by S&W shooter McCulick (spelling??) whose speed shooting is about 11 rounds a second I believe (and he's accurate too!). I've been speed shooting extensively trying to learn, and having fun. I have no timer but a guestimate of my speed is 7 or so rounds a second. With a 9mm Glock 19 I can keep all rounds in the chest area of a silhouette at 8 yards. With a .40 Glock 23 I get more dispersal and rounds creeping "up" the target. With a 1911 .45 I get a more vertical line of rounds from center mass up through the "head" of the target and at times "off target" rounds. All calibers are pretty much the same in speed. The 9mm is much more accurate though in aiming for center mass in shooting. I have no idea which would be more effective in a real situation (and hope to never know). My "speed shooting" experience has shown me that in "room" distance encounters, a high capacity pistol is what I would prefer to have. I like the 1911 but more and more dislike the capacity. As far as speed and accuracy the 9mm is superior.
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Thanks for posting your experience mes228. I've often thought of ergonomics as a large factor in shootability. Do you feel that a .40 that "feels right" would out shoot a 9mm that doesn't in your speed tests? (2x4 fit vs fits like a glove)
If so, we could add a "with the right gun" factor to the 9 vs .40 caliber war.