Stevie-Ray
New member
I think the decimal needs to be to the left of the 1 for the .40
Is the .40 really more powerful than 9mm?
- Thread starter Oysterboy
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Aaarrrggghhh.Stevie-Ray said:
You are entirely correct. And the post is mature enough that I'm not allowed to edit it. My bad.
At least I got the 26 percent increase correct, and that's the key point.
imthegrumpyone
New member
I love my 9mm but only carry my .40s
I can get back on target better with a 9mm than the .40. I am almost as good with a .45acp as the 9mm, but not quite.
If a .40 is going to cause me to miss the target 5 out of 10 times, but I can hit it 6 out of 8 times with .45acp or 9 out of 10 times with 9mm, then the .45acp and 9mm are more likely to save me. I trust either.
Crioche, when you were in the military, was it the Hi Power you carried? Or some other 9mm?
Just curious.
If a .40 is going to cause me to miss the target 5 out of 10 times, but I can hit it 6 out of 8 times with .45acp or 9 out of 10 times with 9mm, then the .45acp and 9mm are more likely to save me. I trust either.
Crioche, when you were in the military, was it the Hi Power you carried? Or some other 9mm?
Just curious.
On any given day I am either carrying my 9mm Browning HP or my 10 mm Fusion 1911 Commander.
The 9mm has 14 rounds of +P ammo in it while the 10mm has 10 rounds of ammo that is about 25-30% more powerful than .40 S&W.
Based on my practice with both guns and my carry load I really don't think I will have any trouble getting multiple rapid hits accurately on target with either. I get on target only about 15% slower with the 10mm than the 9mm. So yes, I will be a little bit faster with the 9mm, but in terms of putting overall power on target the 10mm is the clear winner. I can accurately unload all 10 rounds from the 10mm just as fast as I can unload all 14 from the Browning, and any hits from the 10mm will definitely carry more authority, arguably about 50% more.
I feel confident in both of course, otherwise I wouldn't carry them interchangeably, but the 10mm is truly significantly more powerful.
The 9mm has 14 rounds of +P ammo in it while the 10mm has 10 rounds of ammo that is about 25-30% more powerful than .40 S&W.
Based on my practice with both guns and my carry load I really don't think I will have any trouble getting multiple rapid hits accurately on target with either. I get on target only about 15% slower with the 10mm than the 9mm. So yes, I will be a little bit faster with the 9mm, but in terms of putting overall power on target the 10mm is the clear winner. I can accurately unload all 10 rounds from the 10mm just as fast as I can unload all 14 from the Browning, and any hits from the 10mm will definitely carry more authority, arguably about 50% more.
I feel confident in both of course, otherwise I wouldn't carry them interchangeably, but the 10mm is truly significantly more powerful.
Bad question! When you ask it you are begging to hear all the justifications why people bought 9's. IMO, most buy 9's because ammo is cheap and the guns can be small. Also in popular culture, the 9 enjoys a huge following.
In the real world, you want the biggest diameter flying at 1000-1200 fps that you can handle. For me, this starts at 40. 45 is a touch slow, but ok.
In the real world, you want the biggest diameter flying at 1000-1200 fps that you can handle. For me, this starts at 40. 45 is a touch slow, but ok.
brnmuenchow
Inactive
I really don't think you would be able to tell the difference if you were hit by either one, your first reaction would still be the same... "Seek imediate medical attention" before you bleed to death or go into shock.
Deaf Smith
New member
Long time ago Jeff Cooper opined that one has to decide which is harder...
a) make a well placed good shot with a powerful round or..
b) make several more or less good shots with less powerful rounds
Now while I pack a 9mm alot I do feel the first rounds are the most important and the first shot that makes a telling hit on your opponent will end the argument.
It's nice to have 10, 15, 20 shots but it's the first ones that count. Fail to deliver and there is a good chance your opponent will pay you back some of that lead.
Use the most powerful round/weapon you can shoot accurately, control, and conceal.
Yes the .40 is more powerful than the 9mm (and so is the .357 Sig, 10mm, .357 magnum, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, etc...) and IF you can shoot them well and conceal them, they are a better pick.
But, if the +p+ 9mm is all you can handle (and for me it's my WIFE that would have trouble with the .40 and .357 Sig sub-compact Glocks) then pack the 9mm.
Just shoot strait and get the good hits.
Deaf
a) make a well placed good shot with a powerful round or..
b) make several more or less good shots with less powerful rounds
Now while I pack a 9mm alot I do feel the first rounds are the most important and the first shot that makes a telling hit on your opponent will end the argument.
It's nice to have 10, 15, 20 shots but it's the first ones that count. Fail to deliver and there is a good chance your opponent will pay you back some of that lead.
Use the most powerful round/weapon you can shoot accurately, control, and conceal.
Yes the .40 is more powerful than the 9mm (and so is the .357 Sig, 10mm, .357 magnum, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, etc...) and IF you can shoot them well and conceal them, they are a better pick.
But, if the +p+ 9mm is all you can handle (and for me it's my WIFE that would have trouble with the .40 and .357 Sig sub-compact Glocks) then pack the 9mm.
Just shoot strait and get the good hits.
Deaf
barstoolguru
Moderator
I love my G23 but word on the street is that with modern ammo and bonded hollow points the 9mm comes close to the same ft lbs as a .40 at 30 ft
Crow Hunter
New member
Exactly.
How do you know you will only get one shot? I KNOW that I can get 2 - 3 shots into a vital zone of a standard target in the same time I can get 1 shot of a more "powerful" caliber.
How do you know you will only face one attacker and that your "first-round hit" will be exactly where it needs to be on a target that is actively trying to kill you?
The only way you are going to stop someone is hit something vital. How do you know that you will always hit something vital?
Remember, in the "real world" the targets aren't standing still facing you at 7 yards with scoring circle denoting the "vital zones". They are going to be crouching, running, diving behind cover, swinging a knife/club/machete, shooting at you, etc. It will be a dynamic environment. You are going to be hopped up on adrenaline, hopefully moving off the line of attack, seeking cover, watching your line of fire for innocents, etc. It most likely won't be like Clint Eastwood in the Unforgiven.
The only way you will drop someone instantly hitting the brainstem/spinal cord that is about the width of your thumb. Otherwise, you need to put holes in the target. The bigger the holes the better, but more holes is better than bigger holes. 2 .355" holes adding up to .70" is better than one hole that is .40". You have both more holes to let air in and 2 chances to hit that thumb width target. (Yes, I know that hollowpoints open up, but there is no guarantee other than the bullet diameter)
Do some studies on some simunitions engagements and see what happens when people are really shooting at each other.
But go out and figure out what makes YOU more effective. If you personally can put 2-3 "fight stopping" hits in multiple targets on demand under reasonable time contraints with a .40 or a .45 you are effective with that caliber and you will be able to enjoy the added power benefits of a larger diameter and better penetration. If you can only make 1 hit per target in the same time constraints as you can make 2 or 3 with a 9mm, you would be more "effective" with the 9mm.
I met some guys from the Memphis SWAT team at a class that were using Sig 229s in .40 that were WAY more "effective" than I could ever dream of being. But they do that for a living and practice ALOT more than I do. Not to mention being 2x my size.
Some very good stuff here including all the distraction, but it is amazing how the thread quickly degenerated into half the responses lecturing (again) on posters' views on what was "better," which they liked more or tactically and strategically more effective for them and/or should be for others, follow-up shots, shot placement, etc. However informative, did not the OP instead ask if the .40 was really more powerful?
I'm going to read through post to verify that this point hasn't already been made, so here goes.
A little freshman level physics can clarify the subtleties of this discussion:
1: regarding same or similar chamber pressures between 9mm &40SW, since the 40cal has a broader effective surface area there will be greater force on the bullet compared to the 9mm. Applied force =pressure x area
2: for similar velocities, the 40sw will have greater kinetic energy and greater linear momentum. However, even if a lighter 9mm bullet travels faster than a heavier 40sw bullet, fast enough to have greater kinetic energy than the 40sw bullet, the heavier bullet may still have greater momentum. Momentum transfer, not energy transfer, directly translates to "knockdown power". For the same reason, momentum transfer is responsible for recoil as well. Consequently, a bullet fired from a firearm with more kinetic energy may not necessarily have greater recoil than a lower energy bullet (that is, of the momentum of the latter is greater). Hence, typically heavier yet slower muzzle velocity bullets fired from the same firearm can produce greater recoil, i.e. 230gr bullet at 850fps vs 180gr bullet at 950fps.
3: kinetic energy, not linear momentum, corresponds more closely with penetration depth and heat transfer during impact as opposed to stopping power.
Of course the above points, which are merely descriptions of the physics principles involved, does not fully explain all of the myriad possibilities that may manifest. When it comes to ballistics there are many more variables to consider such as bullet expansion at impact, physical properties of the target, bullet wobble, bullet diameter at impact, etc. End of Physics 101. Next week I'll follow up these ideas by explaining why Bubba jogging to the crapper has more momentum than a speeding bullet shot at the bathroom door yet the bullet has more energy...
Cheers!
Sent from my LG-E739 using Tapatalk
A little freshman level physics can clarify the subtleties of this discussion:
1: regarding same or similar chamber pressures between 9mm &40SW, since the 40cal has a broader effective surface area there will be greater force on the bullet compared to the 9mm. Applied force =pressure x area
2: for similar velocities, the 40sw will have greater kinetic energy and greater linear momentum. However, even if a lighter 9mm bullet travels faster than a heavier 40sw bullet, fast enough to have greater kinetic energy than the 40sw bullet, the heavier bullet may still have greater momentum. Momentum transfer, not energy transfer, directly translates to "knockdown power". For the same reason, momentum transfer is responsible for recoil as well. Consequently, a bullet fired from a firearm with more kinetic energy may not necessarily have greater recoil than a lower energy bullet (that is, of the momentum of the latter is greater). Hence, typically heavier yet slower muzzle velocity bullets fired from the same firearm can produce greater recoil, i.e. 230gr bullet at 850fps vs 180gr bullet at 950fps.
3: kinetic energy, not linear momentum, corresponds more closely with penetration depth and heat transfer during impact as opposed to stopping power.
Of course the above points, which are merely descriptions of the physics principles involved, does not fully explain all of the myriad possibilities that may manifest. When it comes to ballistics there are many more variables to consider such as bullet expansion at impact, physical properties of the target, bullet wobble, bullet diameter at impact, etc. End of Physics 101. Next week I'll follow up these ideas by explaining why Bubba jogging to the crapper has more momentum than a speeding bullet shot at the bathroom door yet the bullet has more energy...
Cheers!
Sent from my LG-E739 using Tapatalk