Is the .40 really more powerful than 9mm?
- Thread starter Oysterboy
- Start date
Cheapshooter
New member
More powerful, yes. Do you need more power than a good SD 9MM round, no.
The shooter has to do their part. A poorly placed shot with a 40 S&W, or even a 10MM is far less effective than a well placed shot with a 9MM standard pressure round.
Don't fret your choice. Just learn to shoot properly, and practice, practice, practice.
TacticalDefense1911
New member
Don't sweat it. "Software" trumps "hardware" any day of the week. If you do your part a good quality 9mm defense load will do its part.
Thanks again. Yes, I'm having practice at the range and having a 9mm made it more affordable. I have probably somewhere over 300 rounds through my Sigma 9 and I'm getting better with my shot placements at 21 feet. I had 2 mags (30 rnds) in the chest, 2 mags in the torso and 2 mags in the head. The target's not even life sized so I feel pretty good. Of course there's some misses but only a few so I'd say over 90% hits.
TacticalDefense1911
New member
Get accurate with the gun and then seek out some training classes. Learning how to manipulate and "operate" the gun is just as important as being accurate. A good dynamic handgun class will do you some good.
Firearms are serious, but, make sure you "play" games with yourself and your weapon. Not everyone has access to a Hogans Alley setup or even the great outdoors. Some ranges are extremely restrictive on what they will allow you to do. But even a range that only allows you to load one round in a magazine at a time can afford an opportunity for training of a sort. You just have to be creative within the rules of safety and whatever range you patronize.
Don't just shoot at a single bullseye repeatedly. Get targets with multi bullseyes and practice engaging a bullseye for one shot, coming back to ready and then engaging another bullseye. Practice loading a couple rounds in a magazine and a couple in another magazine. Engage the target until the gun is empty, change mags, and re-engage the target. Practice always getting your first shot on target. First shot is most important.
If you have access to a facility with courses, tactical setups or reactive targets then so much the better.
Crow Hunter
New member
+100
It will also let you know how good your choice is for you. My wife and I took a class in the rain/mud and it was very satisfiying to see how well our G19's performed in the muck for us. I distinctly remember setting up a Phase III malfunction and noticing a little dribble of muddy goop come out of the chamber when I was sticking the dummy into the chamber.
Not a single non "arranged" malfunction in 1,200+ rounds for each of us.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
You are missing basic physics. It isn't pressure that propels a bullet and generates energy, it's force. Pressure is measured and expressed in pounds per square inch. That's what "psi" stands for. Irrespective of weight, a .40 caliber bullet has a larger base for the pressure to act on.Oysterboy said:
According to Berrys' Bullets web site, a 9mm bullet has a diameter of .356" and a .40 bullet has a diameter of .401. That gives a base area of 0.100 sq.in. for the 9mm and 1.26 sq.in for the .40. Assuming equal pressures, you can see instantly that the .40 is applying the same pressure over 26 percent more area, which results in 26 percent more force/energy.
Using your bullet weights, the 165-gr bullet is 18 grains heavier than the 147-gr, which is a difference of 12 percent. So the .40 has 26 percent more energy pushing a bullet that weighs 12 percent more. The left-over 14 percent goes into generating more velocity and more muzzle energy.
I think that shot placement is a big issue that many forget about. If you can't put two shots quickly and accurately into your opponent's heart or head then become better trained, before you need find yourself in harm's way.
Whether we are 9mm, .40, .40 or .50 fans; the above wisdom holds true. You can wield a .50 Desert Eagle and let loose one of those .50 bullets, but if it doesn't hit the right place then it just irritates the 'recipient' of the bullet.
I recall that in the 50s, 60s & 70s the Israelis favoured silenced .22 Beretta pistols to despatch people they disliked - terrorists especially. Their doctrine was two shots to the head and it was all over - neat, professional, terminal!
I'm a 9mm person - probably because I carried one as a soldier and I was very good with it, because I was trained well and I practiced a lot! In Northern Ireland we often carried pistols, as we operated in civilian clothes rather than uniform. I learned how to shoot using Jeff Cooper's Modern Technique & the Weaver Stance, Combat Mindset and I bought a good holster and magazine carrier.
So whilst I'm always up for a good debate on the 'right' calibre; it's secondary to 'you' and your ability to hit the target. The Army bought us a load of IPSC cardboard targets, which were excellent because we learned muscle memory at shooting at silhouettes and it served us very well on operations. They were a lot better than the usual picture of a charging 'Russian-looking' soldier where the bullseye was his stomach.
I hope this helps to keep you safe.
Whether we are 9mm, .40, .40 or .50 fans; the above wisdom holds true. You can wield a .50 Desert Eagle and let loose one of those .50 bullets, but if it doesn't hit the right place then it just irritates the 'recipient' of the bullet.
I recall that in the 50s, 60s & 70s the Israelis favoured silenced .22 Beretta pistols to despatch people they disliked - terrorists especially. Their doctrine was two shots to the head and it was all over - neat, professional, terminal!
I'm a 9mm person - probably because I carried one as a soldier and I was very good with it, because I was trained well and I practiced a lot! In Northern Ireland we often carried pistols, as we operated in civilian clothes rather than uniform. I learned how to shoot using Jeff Cooper's Modern Technique & the Weaver Stance, Combat Mindset and I bought a good holster and magazine carrier.
So whilst I'm always up for a good debate on the 'right' calibre; it's secondary to 'you' and your ability to hit the target. The Army bought us a load of IPSC cardboard targets, which were excellent because we learned muscle memory at shooting at silhouettes and it served us very well on operations. They were a lot better than the usual picture of a charging 'Russian-looking' soldier where the bullseye was his stomach.
I hope this helps to keep you safe.
Deaf Smith
New member
Chamber pressure is not velocity or weight. The .40 case has more volume than the 9mm and the .40 slug more area for the pressure to act.
Top loads of the .40 are more powerful than the top 9mm loads. Always were.
Deaf
A few random rounds and the pressures they operate at...
The .22 l.r. about 24,000 psi for standard velocity and hi velocity.
.38 Special about 17,000 psi in standard velocity and 18,500 psi in +P
44 Special about 15,500 psi but can be a bit more.
45acp about 21,000 psi.
Of these the round which operates at the highest pressure is the least powerful.
The standard tools for measuring the power of a round are either the energy produced by it or the momentum. While the pressure that a round operates at are important (for reasons spelled out in a couple of posts) alone they tell you not alot about the punch a round can deliver.
tipoc
The .22 l.r. about 24,000 psi for standard velocity and hi velocity.
.38 Special about 17,000 psi in standard velocity and 18,500 psi in +P
44 Special about 15,500 psi but can be a bit more.
45acp about 21,000 psi.
Of these the round which operates at the highest pressure is the least powerful.
The standard tools for measuring the power of a round are either the energy produced by it or the momentum. While the pressure that a round operates at are important (for reasons spelled out in a couple of posts) alone they tell you not alot about the punch a round can deliver.
tipoc
In that case, have you shot either of them? I bought a 9 because I already have a 9 and didn't want to end up buying two different calibers. I have two boxes of 100 packs of Rem UMC 115 JHPs but only shot 50 yesterday because they're pretty hot. That's with my Sigma 9. I can't imagine how much I can shoot with my PF9 but it's loaded with 'em for SD. 
I have shot a 9mm Glock 19 and some other 9mms but I imagine that the glock is the closest to the Sigma. I believe I have shot a .40 but that was a long time ago and honestly I don't really remember it. I'm sure with practice I could be good with either but with less recoil the 9mm would probably be easier to shoot consistently and faster at the same spot. I keep my BG 380 loaded with Hornady HP's for self defense as well.
The 40 definitely has a slight edge of power over the 9mm, but I would not lose any sleep over it.
Tipoc:
The 45 Colt has a lower operating pressure (between 14,500 psi and 20,000 psi) than either the 9mm or the 40 but is a more powerful round than either. It can send a 225 gr. round out at 1200 fps in one load by Cor-Bon for 720 ft. pds. of energy.
That is from a 7 1/2 " BBL from a 4" you are probable looking at 1000 FPS or less.
In a standard load, one from Speer, the old Colt round can send a 250 gr. GDHP out at 900 ft. per second. for 450 ft. pds of energy but a good deal more momentum than the 9 or the 40.
Not really, its pretty close to the 40 S&W, if I was to cherry pick a Cor-bon 165 JHP at 1150 FPS for 484 FPE from a 4" BBL..
Tipoc:
The 45 Colt has a lower operating pressure (between 14,500 psi and 20,000 psi) than either the 9mm or the 40 but is a more powerful round than either. It can send a 225 gr. round out at 1200 fps in one load by Cor-Bon for 720 ft. pds. of energy.
That is from a 7 1/2 " BBL from a 4" you are probable looking at 1000 FPS or less.
In a standard load, one from Speer, the old Colt round can send a 250 gr. GDHP out at 900 ft. per second. for 450 ft. pds of energy but a good deal more momentum than the 9 or the 40.
Not really, its pretty close to the 40 S&W, if I was to cherry pick a Cor-bon 165 JHP at 1150 FPS for 484 FPE from a 4" BBL..
Agree.
But in terms of comparable power among the so-called "service calibers," the high-performance 10mm AUTO beats 'em all ...
And no need for any loss of sleep, just accept it ...
"My, that's a big one ..."
Yep, the impact of an errant, full-power 10mm round is something to see ...
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Give me a .40 which is what I learned on...I'll become highly proficient with it in a week with sufficient ammo. 500+ rounds.
Same with .45
Same with .9mm
Same with 10mm
Same with .357SIG
Why do I know this? Cause I've done this...
Why don't I have any 10mm or .357SIG firearms on my signature anymore? The ammo is a biatch to find.
Practice, practice, practice. ANYONE can do that ^^^^
Now..which is more powerful? That's easy...
Shot placement.
Same with .45
Same with .9mm
Same with 10mm
Same with .357SIG
Why do I know this? Cause I've done this...
Why don't I have any 10mm or .357SIG firearms on my signature anymore? The ammo is a biatch to find.
Practice, practice, practice. ANYONE can do that ^^^^
Now..which is more powerful? That's easy...
Shot placement.