Is the .270 dying?
- Thread starter gyvel
- Start date
Ridgerunner665
New member
The 270 isn't dying...but it does have some new competition...the 270 WSM is one...but theres also a non-magnum round that is now SAAMI standardized that beats the trusty ole 270 by a fair margin, that round is the 280 Ackley Improved...I have one ordered myself, have wanted one for about 20 years now.
139 grain Hornady Interbond...data supplied via the Applied Ballistics app...
150 grain Accubond LR....
168 grain Accubond LR...this is zeroed for 250 yards.
Thats the reason the 270, and others, may not seem quite as popular as they once were...its not just because of the 280 Ackley alone, but all the other newcomers as well (namely the WSM's)
139 grain Hornady Interbond...data supplied via the Applied Ballistics app...
150 grain Accubond LR....
168 grain Accubond LR...this is zeroed for 250 yards.
Thats the reason the 270, and others, may not seem quite as popular as they once were...its not just because of the 280 Ackley alone, but all the other newcomers as well (namely the WSM's)
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Ridgerunner665
New member
And don't shoot the messenger...I really like the 270, and the 30-06, and the 45-70 for that matter...my wife hunts with a 270, picked it herself.
I'm not trying to tear the 270 down, not by any means...just saying, it has lost some ground lately in the "flat, fast" category...its not dead or even dying, but is beginning to show its age.
I'm not trying to tear the 270 down, not by any means...just saying, it has lost some ground lately in the "flat, fast" category...its not dead or even dying, but is beginning to show its age.
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Perhaps, but it's worth pointing out that you've compared the ordinary loads in 30-06 and 300 WM to the Superformance load in 270. Not exactly a fair comparison. If you had compared apples to apples, the 30-06 Superformance load drops 38.4 inches at 500 yards, cutting the difference between it and the 270 SF load in half.
What you've demonstrated is that if your sole criterion for judging the merit of a cartridge is drop at 500 yards, the 270 is slightly better than a 30-06 (no surprise there) and not quite as good as a 300 WM.
As far as standard cartridges go that have been around for over 50 years it has little peers. I'd say the 280 Remington and the 270 are close enough to be called clones. All those other wildcat cartridges will wear out a throat sooner. For a rifle with little recoil, flatness of trajectory, long barrel life and can be loaded with 110 gr to 150 gr bullets for everything from Pdogs to Elk at least, again, it has few peers.
Ridgerunner665
New member
Barrel life....the 270 Win and the 280 Ackley are identical as far as overbore is concerned...if anything, the Ackley has a slight advantage with throat wear due to the sharp shoulders and long neck on the brass.
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Wow! I need to do some homework on reloading. I haven't reloaded in 25 years when Bullseye was about $3.00 a pound. LOL
And, like I said, the .270 is completely new to me.
I've worked up loads for .30-06, .300 Savage, .303 British, 8mm Lebel, 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 8x57, 7x57, 7.65 Argentine, 7.62x54, 11mm Gras, 11mm Mauser, .577 Snider and too many more to remember, but never .270.
Now I have something new to fool with.
And, like I said, the .270 is completely new to me.
I've worked up loads for .30-06, .300 Savage, .303 British, 8mm Lebel, 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 8x57, 7x57, 7.65 Argentine, 7.62x54, 11mm Gras, 11mm Mauser, .577 Snider and too many more to remember, but never .270.
Now I have something new to fool with.
Here is my homework on my FN 270 Win.
I bought an early 50’s FN Deluxe in 270 Win. It has a 24” barrel. Someone had fully bedded barrel and it shot awful. After rebidding, I took the thing to the range and accuracy improved but it does not like 130’s. However, it shoots 150’s well. Of the 130’s, it shot Nosler 130’s the best, which basically proves nothing. I bought a bunch of pulled 130 grain Federal Fusion bullets and those have not done well, maybe they were damaged by being pulled.
I have lots of 4350, some IMR, some H4350, and lots of AA4350. The 4350 series are all excellent powders and very versatile, shoot well in many medium capacity cartridges. I was disappointed with the velocities I got with my 130 Noslers’ and 55.0 grs H4350. I wanted 3000 fps and I did not get it. The only ammunition which gave 3000 fps was Federal factory. My rifle shot excellent groups the 150’s but the velocity is disappointing. I get better velocities with 150’s in a 308 Win. The Gunclub President asked me why I was fooling around with any other powder than 4831, and he gave me a pound to try. I will load up some and give that powder a test eventually.
Anyway, as you can see, I shot a lot of different 130’s with 55.0 grains IMR 4350, I tested Factory ammunition for a reality check on velocities. I tried Varget, IMR 4064, 4064 was more promising, but I think the 4350 series of powders were the most consistent.
I bought an early 50’s FN Deluxe in 270 Win. It has a 24” barrel. Someone had fully bedded barrel and it shot awful. After rebidding, I took the thing to the range and accuracy improved but it does not like 130’s. However, it shoots 150’s well. Of the 130’s, it shot Nosler 130’s the best, which basically proves nothing. I bought a bunch of pulled 130 grain Federal Fusion bullets and those have not done well, maybe they were damaged by being pulled.
I have lots of 4350, some IMR, some H4350, and lots of AA4350. The 4350 series are all excellent powders and very versatile, shoot well in many medium capacity cartridges. I was disappointed with the velocities I got with my 130 Noslers’ and 55.0 grs H4350. I wanted 3000 fps and I did not get it. The only ammunition which gave 3000 fps was Federal factory. My rifle shot excellent groups the 150’s but the velocity is disappointing. I get better velocities with 150’s in a 308 Win. The Gunclub President asked me why I was fooling around with any other powder than 4831, and he gave me a pound to try. I will load up some and give that powder a test eventually.
Anyway, as you can see, I shot a lot of different 130’s with 55.0 grains IMR 4350, I tested Factory ammunition for a reality check on velocities. I tried Varget, IMR 4064, 4064 was more promising, but I think the 4350 series of powders were the most consistent.
Code:
[B]FN Deluxe 24" Barrel [/B]
100 gr PSP Remington Factory
29 Dec 2011 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 3024
Std Dev = 11
ES = 27
High = 3035
Low = 3008
N = 5
130 gr Winchester Power Point SP Factory
29 Dec 2011 T = 51 °F
Ave Vel = 2789
Std Dev = 17
ES = 42
High = 2809
Low = 2767
N = 5
130 gr Federal Hi Shok Factory
29 Dec 2011 T = 51 °F
Ave Vel = 3028
Std Dev = 38
ES = 103
High = 3088
Low = 2985
N = 5
130 gr R-P Bronze Point 55.0 grains H4350 wtd lot 22655 R-P cases WLR OAL 3.250"
29 Dec 2011 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 2732
Std Dev = 36
ES = 102
High = 2790
Low = 2688
N = 6
130 gr Nosler BT 55.0 grains H4350 wtd lot 22655 R-P cases WLR OAL 3.3"
29 Dec 2011 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 2833
Std Dev = 15
ES = 39
High = 2848
Low = 2809
N = 5
130 gr Federal Fusion (pulled) 55.0 grs IMR4350 wtd lot RBS (60's) mixed cases Fed 210S OAL 3.225"
8 Feb 2012 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 2942
Std Dev = 5
ES = 10
High = 2948
Low = 2938
N = 5
130 gr Federal Fusion (pulled) 55.0 grs IMR4350 wtd lot RBS (60's) mixed cases Fed 210S OAL 3.225"
14 Mar 2012 T = 80 °F
Ave Vel = 2952
Std Dev = 53
ES = 119
High = 2999
Low = 2880
N = 6
130 gr Nosler 55.0 grs AA 4350 wtd lot 9-95 Rem cases WLR OAL 3.250"
8 Feb 2012 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 2961
Std Dev = 6
ES = 16
High = 2967
Low = 2951
N = 5
130 gr Federal Fusion (pulled) 55.0 grs IMR4350 wtd lot RBS (60's) mixed cases Fed 210S OAL 3.225"
8 Feb 2012 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 2942
Std Dev = 5
ES = 10
High = 2948
Low = 2938
N = 5
130 gr Federal Fusion (pulled) 55.0 grs IMR4350 wtd lot RBS (60's) mixed cases Fed 210S OAL 3.225"
14 Mar 2012 T = 80 °F
Ave Vel = 2952
Std Dev = 53
ES = 119
High = 2999
Low = 2880
N = 6
130 gr Nosler 55.0 grs AA 4350 wtd lot 9-95 Rem cases WLR OAL 3.250"
8 Feb 2012 T = 50 °F
Ave Vel = 2961
Std Dev = 6
ES = 16
High = 2967
Low = 2951
N = 5
150 gr Speer Flat Base 53.0 grains H4350 wtd lot 22655 R-P cases WLR OAL 3.250"
29 Dec 2011 T = 51 °F
Ave Vel = 2704
Std Dev = 18
ES = 49
High = 2727
Low = 2678
N = 5
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/FN270.jpg[/IMG]
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[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe130Nosler55grsH4350_zps322d6630.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe130Nosler55grsH4350_zps322d6630.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe150Speer540grsWC852_zps3cc92256.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe150Speer540grsWC852_zps3cc92256.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe150Speer550grsWC852_zps2a3143bf.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe150Speer550grsWC852_zps2a3143bf.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe150Speer530grsH4350_zpsd6ed1f74.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/FN%20Mauser%20Deluxe/270WinFNDeluxe150Speer530grsH4350_zpsd6ed1f74.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
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My JOC Tribute rifle doesn't like 130 gr bullets that well but did much better with the Nosler BT than anything else. I haven't tried them yet but do have some 150 gr BT's loaded as well as their Partition in that weight.
I doubt you'll see 3,000 fps from a 150 gr bullet. Winchester's Power Point 130 gr bullet doesn't even go much over that.
I doubt you'll see 3,000 fps from a 150 gr bullet. Winchester's Power Point 130 gr bullet doesn't even go much over that.
I bought a box of their Superformance 130 gr rated at 3200 fps and you could tell it. More recoil was apparent and the primers were flattened. I wrote Hornady about it and they said the photo I sent them didn't depict pressure. Could have fooled me. They were more flattened than any of my reloads.
Ridgerunner665
New member
Any time you run any round up to 65,000 psi the primers are gonna be flat...65,000 psi, which is the SAAMI maximum average pressure for the 270, is very near the yield strength of the brass (appx. 70,000 psi), and also the maximum pressure at which primers are designed for..."maximum average pressure" is just that....an average, and some rounds loaded to that, even factory rounds, will be right up there real close to 70,000 psi...hence the the sorta flat primers.
ColColt. I get those same type primer results from Winchester factory 150 gr. Powerpoints in several commercial FN Mausers and a Winchester M70 XTR push feeder .270 Win. rifles. But then again, it's pretty doggone hot most of the year where I live. 
I don't think you have much of a problem with that ammo.
Paul B.
I don't think you have much of a problem with that ammo.Paul B.
I just thought it kind of odd since the Power Points and Federal Fusion ammo along with reloads didn't cause cratering to any degree or flattening. I use CCI primers when reloading. I have Winchester also and don't know how they would have performed.
One thing's for sure. I doubt any other factory ammo has that sort of velocity from a 130 gr bullet.
One thing's for sure. I doubt any other factory ammo has that sort of velocity from a 130 gr bullet.
reynolds357
New member
I have come to the opinion that you are going to have to mic brass pre and post fired to gather any relevant data about pressure. Once you get off the spectrum, pressure signs in primers will be unmistakable, but reading primers can be very deceptive in the range nearing max pressure. From what I saw, the primers do not look over pressure. I have had some loads recently that the primers looked fine and the extractor was leaving marks in the brass you can feel. I have had some where the primers looked cratered and the extractor did not leave a mark. (Both Savage extractors)
My understanding (may be wrong) of the superformance ammo is that it is within SAAMI pressure specs, but the pressure curve stays at the higher end a bit longer than typical loads. The max pressure is the same, but the time in the upper end of the curve is longer.
My understanding (may be wrong) of the superformance ammo is that it is within SAAMI pressure specs, but the pressure curve stays at the higher end a bit longer than typical loads. The max pressure is the same, but the time in the upper end of the curve is longer.
I read many years ago and in fact, it's in several of the manuals I have that one of the signs of pressure were like those two photos, one being slightly cratered and the other with the round edge of the primer nearly filling the primer pocket. I don't know of any other way to discern getting into a pressure situation other than that and a hard bolt lift and extraction.