Is OBAMA a threat to Concealed Carry?

[Fremmer]

Is Obama a threat to firearms rights in general? Of course he is. The question is how much damage he (along with Congress) can do. Banning concealed carry nationwide? It'll take a lot more than "hope" to make that happen.

The democrats in congress already have gun control legislation on the table. Obama will call it "sensible gun safety" legislation. He'll gladly sign legislation enacting a new "assault weapons" ban. And repeal the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. And mandate a federal registry of handgun purchases. And ban semi-auto guns.

Seriously, you're not contending that Obama is not anti-gun, are you? After all, here are two examples of Obama's anti-gun votes:

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

 

[JuanCarlos]

I was born in 1940, so I don't think the sparky moniker fits. I go by madmag, or if you prefer sir madmag.

Don't want to be condescended to? Don't be condescending.

Seriously, you're not contending that Obama is not anti-gun, are you? After all, here are two examples of Obama's anti-gun votes:

If you will go re-read my post(s), you'll see that I contend no such thing. So there was no point in posting any of his anti-gun legislative history.

If the man could wave his hand and make every last gun disappear from each of our homes, I have absolutely no doubt that he'd do so. I'm not questioning what he wants to do, I'm questioning just how much he can do.

 

[madmag]

Don't want to be condescended to? Don't be condescending.

Yeah, I was probably a little out of line with my added statement. Not really like me. I guess old age is setting in for sure. Anyway, I don't want to quibble about insults.

My biggest concern about Obama is not what he can get done by himself, but getting others to introduce legislation, and the appointment of any Supreme Court justices, is still a powerful tool. Add to that, if he is elected, he will have a good shot at 8 years in office....that's a long time to get his anti-gun work done.

I'm questioning just how much he can do.

A lot in 8 years.

 

[JuanCarlos]

and the appointment of any Supreme Court justices

This is actually my primary concern with an Obama presidency, at least as far as my guns go. I think this is where he stands to do some very real, and very lasting damage to gun rights.

I just don't know how much of a threat it (or he) really is to concealed carry (looking at the OP, and the most common Obamaphobia), at least to the status quo. I'm just not imaginative enough to see a Supreme Court case that would actually make the regulation of concealed carry within a state a federal issue. And for reasons already mentioned, I think doing away with it legislatively is a non-starter.

AWB 2: Electric Boogaloo? Yeah, I could see a definite possibility of them managing to push that through. Followed by a high probability of them losing, at the very least, the Senate. Possibly the House as well...though really, banning "scary black rifles" has just enough support and is far enough down on most people's lists that they may manage to keep it.

Overall, though, that might not be a bad thing. When it comes to the idea of an Obama White House and a Republican Congress, I think I might actually find that preferable to McCain/Democrats (either is preferable to a either party controlling both). Kind of a crappy choice to make either way, though.

 

[Fremmer]

Obamaphobia

Obama's dislike of guns, and his disregard of the 2nd Amendment, is not "phobia"; to the contrary, it is a valid concern about Obama's anti-gun beliefs, which are well demonstrated by Obama's anti-gun voting record. Obama wants to ban semi-auto guns. All of them. Obama wants gun manufacturers to be sued out of existance.

The democrats control congress, and only the President can veto their anti-gun legislation. I very seriously doubt that Obama would veto anti-gun legislation if elected President. To the contrary, Obama would call the legislation "sensible gun safety laws". :barf:

 

[jakeswensonmt]

It's not just Obama that worries me. It's Obama (D) + Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D) + Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (D). They say bad things happen in threes.

 

[JuanCarlos]

It's not just Obama that worries me. It's Obama (D) + Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D) + Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (D). They say bad things happen in threes.

Yeah, handing all three to either party tends to lead to differing brands of unpleasantness.

Obama's dislike of guns, and his disregard of the 2nd Amendment, is not "phobia"

I think the fear that concealed carry will be banned nationwide, that this forum will likely go away, that life as we know it will be altered beyond recognition if Obama gets elected borders on phobia. Okay so maybe I made that last bit up. But looking back at the OP, it seems like more of the "end of the world if [candidate] is elected" hyperbole. Heard plenty of it in 2004 (from the "other side"). World's still here.

The democrats control congress, and only the President can veto their anti-gun legislation. I very seriously doubt that Obama would veto anti-gun legislation if elected President. To the contrary, Obama would call the legislation "sensible gun safety laws".

Oh, obviously Obama would gladly slap a signature on any anti-gun legislation that hit his desk. There's no real doubt there. The restriction will be on what actually makes it to his desk. I think the tight majority the Democrats hold in the Senate, along with the number there that hail from (and need to please the voters in) pro-gun states will temper somewhat the kind of legislation he'd have the pleasure of signing. Hopefully we'll have a Supreme Court decision soon to help do the same.

Going back to the OP once again, the question is whether a law overturning all state-issued concealed carry permits would ever make it through said Senate. Again, I'll say simply that this is highly unlikely. In other words, I'm saying that on the specific issue of overturning all state-issued concealed carry permits, the odds of any such legislation becoming law are roughly the same whether you elect Obama or McCain. Which is to say, nearly zero. Because again you're asking at least 26 Senators to pass legislation that directly counters their own states' laws, laws which their states' citizens generally support. And that's assuming that every Senator from a may-issue/no-issue state supports it.

It's possible. I suppose stranger things have happened. I'd put a hundred bucks down on November 3rd if Obama wins that by 2016 this won't have, though. Wouldn't even have to think about it.


To me, this particular thread's OP just seems like a little excess election-year doom n' gloom.

 

[SugarmillMan]

Election year "doom and gloom" maybe. But Obama's gun positions, as listed on the CNN Election Center and from his State Legislature days are clear.

Obama is the ONLY candidate calling for :

* Nationwide ban on Concealed Carry Permits.

* Ban sale/transfer of ALL semiautomatic hadguns

* One gun per month (Obviously that one must be a revolver or long gun)

Should we just sit back and relax thinking that "he'll never be able to do it"?

 

[FireMax]

jfrey123
Having Obama in office would probably 'inspire' the anti crowd to push new bills daily banning something or another in firearm legislation...

The same thing will happen if McCain is in office because McCain is an anti-gunner. It is "liberals" whom McCain inspires.... not Conservatives.

 

[Robert J McElwain]

Given the long list of messes that Obama will inherit next January, does anyone really believe he'll have time to even think about guns during the next 8 years?

With what he'll be looking at on day one, I would think guns will be near the bottom of the priority list. And taking on the gun lobby would be about as stupid as trying to eliminate Social Security.

Bob

 

[Fremmer]

does anyone really believe he'll have time to even think about guns during the next 8 years?

Yes. A congress dominated by democrats will attach gun control bills to appropriation legislation. Obama will sign the legislation, and then claim that he had to sign it to prevent your post office from being shut down, to prevent veterans from losing health care, etc. And then he'll talk about "sensible" gun control, and about how civilians don't need "assault weapons" to hunt.

Obama will work directly with Barb Boxer, Teddy Kennedy, Diane Feinstein, and other anti-gun democrats to enact as much anti-gun legislation as they can. But if you don't think that civilians should be allowed to own semi automatic rifles, then Obama is your man. He'll protect you with "sensible" gun control (oops, I mean "gun safety") legislation.

The anti-gun legislation that Obama likes -- including allowing firearm and ammunition manufacturers to be sued out of existance -- will effectively end CCW for civilians; you can hardly CCW if you can't buy a handgun or ammo, especially if no one will manufacture or sell you a handgun or ammo because they can't afford insurance and/or lawyers.

And the notion that John McCain is anything like Obama when it comes to gun control legislation is absurd.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Should we just sit back and relax thinking that "he'll never be able to do it"?

Of course not. You should focus on your Senate races, and encourage others in other states to do the same. I say Senate rather than House because not only do we (as gun enthusiasts) have a natural edge there (because Montana has as many votes as California) but also because you don't have to deal with districts that have been gerrymandered all to hell.

Obviously you should also vote for whomever you prefer for President. But depending on the President to veto anti-gun legislation is just as foolish as depending on Congress not to pass any. If guns were the only issue I cared about, you can bet that I'd vote straight-ticket Republican...no point taking chances. But they're not, and they're not for most people, so you kind of have to prepare for the eventuality that Obama might just win.

And you should generally stop acting as though a loss in any given election...be it losing the White House, or the Democrats holding a majority in either chamber of Congress...is the end of the world. There are always other fronts to fight on.


Besides, it's arguable that a huge anti-gun push from the Democrats is just what we need anyway. We've already seen just how effective treating a Congressional majority as a one-time-use card to jam as much crap through as you can is. Last I checked it didn't work out well for them in 1994, yet now I can still walk into a store and walk out with an AR-15 pretty easily.

 

[madmag]

But they're not, and they're not for most people, so you kind of have to prepare for the eventuality that Obama might just win.

I disagree. First, then is not a place where you have just most people, this is a gun forum, so I assume most here think that gun ownership has a lot of importance. It does not have to be the most important issue, just up there at the top not to support Obama. Then, for me anyway, you add to that he is about to the left of Ted Kennedy on most issues, then that's just another reason for me to vote against him. And no, I don't and won't prepare for the eventuality Obama might win. I see no gain in that attitude. I will vote so that we can try to load congress in gun owners favor, but trying to get me to just relax and focus on other things ain't working.

Last I checked it didn't work out well for them in 1994, yet now I can still walk into a store and walk out with an AR-15 pretty easily.

Actually, it did work for a while. Yes, it did expire, but they were able to get it to pass is reason enough for concern. Maybe next time it won't expire.

 

[Yellowfin]

I'm not satisfied that everyone who signed the 94 ban didn't get sent to jail for doing so. It was against the law. Last I checked, if I do something that's against the law I get punished for it legally, not just someone a year or two or three tells me I'm laid off. It shouldn't just be "Aw, that sucks for us." It should be "You're gone TODAY for even writing that, and I hope you like stripes because that's what you're wearing, Mr. ------- from Illinois, now known as Inmate #59120293." If they could arrest you or me for a spring and a sear that harms nobody but puts a few pieces of lead downrange faster than otherwise, it should for darn sure end their non-felon days for screwing with the rights of 300 million people.

 

[Fremmer]

it's arguable that a huge anti-gun push from the Democrats is just what we need anyway.

Yeah, that's the ticket. That's just what "we" need, if you mean "we" as in the Brady Bunch. Obama would like to ban all semi-automatic firearms (rifles, shotguns, and handguns). Obama likes litigation against firearm manufacturers which will drive them out of business, or make firearms so prohibitively expensive that only rich politicians like Obama can afford them. Why are these things just what we need? I'd prefer to be able to purchase semi-automatic firearms.

That's gotta be the biggest spin on Obama and gun control that I've ever read in this Forum. We purportedly "need" Obama's gun control, so that someday in the future, we might not have to have Obama's gun control.

 

[madmag]

Yeah, that's the ticket. That's just what "we" need, if you mean "we" as in the Brady Bunch.

+1



The Obama support is not what it appears anyway. This has happened more than once with the liberals. Right now they are engaged in a self induced love fest. This will go on until the Dem convention. They are convincing themselves that everyone else in the country would just love to support Obama they way they do. Then cold realty will set in and they will realize that his left wing stance doesn't fly with the general electorate. Some of the spin has already started. Like, He made notes on left wing responses from his campaign. Oh, but it's his staff that's left wing...not Obama. What a joke. I wonder why he would hire staff that's left wing when he is really a conservative....nice try! And yes we can even see another spin going on here. Be happy, don't worry about Obama being President. Why he would not even think about being anti-gun, and if he is, the President has absolutely no power to get things done...so don't worry just vote for him.:barf:

 

[jakeswensonmt]

The Obama support is not what it appears anyway.

That is the truth. Obama can barely get half of the far-lefties to side with him. His support from white voters is very limited (and contrary to MSM coverage, whites still account for most of this country.) Hillary supporters hate Obama. I predict that if Obama's nominated, McCain will win by a wide margin.

 

[madmag]

I predict that if Obama's nominated, McCain will win by a wide margin.

Yes, I sometimes wonder why I talk against Obama. I am voting for McCain, but I truly believe Hillary will be harder to beat in a general election. The Dems have always Had a hard time understanding that their inside view of a great liberal candidate does not necessarily fit with the general electorate. The Democratic convention is it's own little isolated world. Now, if they would just stop watching Keith Olberman they could get a view of the real world. But what the heck, just let them sleep for a while longer.

 

[SugarmillMan]

However, either Democratic candidate will try to reinvent themselves during the campaign to appear directly in the political center. They want to attract the centrist vote until the election is finished. Afterwards, they change back into their leftwinged, liberal selves.

 

[madmag]

However, either Democratic candidate will try to reinvent themselves during the campaign to appear directly in the political center.

Good point. But Hillary is really delaying this shift. As long as Hillary & Obama are at odds, then they both have to cater to the liberal side. Hillary, bless her heart, is actually helping. Now excuse me while I wash out my mouth with some bourbon after giving Hillary good marks.