Is no gun better than cheap junk?

Yeah, I have defended the High Points on here a time or two. I had a 9mm HP for a while, and the only reason I sold it was cause I bought it off my brother and he wanted it back, and I promised him he could have back anytime he wanted. Anyway, I use to use it as my HD and fishing sidearm, figured if I dropped it or fell in the creek, I couldn't make it any uglier. However, I NEVER had a feeding or cycling malfunction with it. I preferred it over the S&W I had at the time (although to be fair, the Smith was a Sigma). I am not above having another one, and have always considered getting one of their carbines. I think people who are gun snobs are no better than any other snob. You might as well drive a Bentley and refuse to even look at someone driving a Chevy as be some of those folks who think you're wasting your time with anything other than whatever their favorite brand is. I also agree with the difference between cheap and unreliable. I guess my original post should have just said junk, cause there is definitely some more expensive junk out there.
 
I have a HP. I also have a CZ52 and a CZ82.

And a colt SS gold cup national match 45.

Guess which one is the most reliable.
 
if i had to get a high point

if i had to get a high point (will probly have one in the collection in a few years because i havnt a problem with them) and i had to defend my self with it id jump on the true and tested .45 acp that is known for its ''one shot one kill'' capabillitys. find the best defence load i could find and have it in the chamber cause its defanitly going off. then have the rest of the mag with ball ammo cause they function the best in semi autos in most cases. then id feel pretty good about my self but i would use the first round the best i could.
 
4. The guns that nearly all of us sneer at and refuse to own. This is stuff like Hi-Point, Jiminez, Cobra, RG, Nagant revolvers, etc. Anyone can acquire one of these guns. Most of them aren't reliable or durable because the materials and workmanship aren't very good. Some people buy them because they have much to learn about guns and others buy them because it's all they can afford
Click to expand...

I've never shot a Jiminez, RG, or Nagant revolver, but I can tell you Hi Point is NOT in the same class as a cobra. Hi points work, cobras don't I have never cleaned my hi point in 1500 rounds because Im too lazy to find a drift pin and its a cheap gun, and it still feeds. The only issue I currently have with mine is that 20% of the time it hangs up on the last round of the clip. This is because it is FILTHY. But that is still 7 rounds, and in a real HD situation, if you cant do it in 7 rounds, might as well throw your gun at them. My cobra has been cleaned 100 times in 100 rounds and guess what, your lucky if you can get through 30 rounds without the gun failing to work. Hi point is a cheap gun, Cobra is a S**t gun. Hi point was the first handgun I owned, yes because it was all that I could afford. When I shot my dads ruger and springfield I was blown away by how much nicer they felt to shoot. But the ruger, I don't know what was up with it, my dad tried 1000 things, but his p40 had alot of problems jamming. He eventually sold it. Then I got a S&W 66-5 and a Cobra. The 66-5 felt really good, the cobra disgusted me. No more spontaneous buying at a gun show for me. But the hi point still shoots, it does not feel good, but it shoots. And guess what, as much as the gun snobs hate to admit, my hi point is going to kill you just as dead as your 1000 dollar HK is going to kill me. Not to say I don't desperatly want an HK, but my budget won't allow for one right now.:(
 
Some people get a good hi-point that works 90% of the time. Some people get a hi-point that they just assume throw than shoot. I say just save up until you can get a truly reliable gun.

Heritage .22 revolvers are only about 130$, but they work all of the time.

The cheapest gun I have is a taurus pt111. It's reliable,but I'm a terrible shot with it!!
 
ConfuseUs said:
1. Expensive guns that most people don't like getting all scratched up with use ($800+). The cost of these guns is a hefty percentage of many people's annual net income. It's unrealistic to expect somebody to buy an HK .45 for self defense if they have an income of $20,000 or less.
2. Midrange guns that most people own and shoot (things like Glocks, XDs, S&W, Ruger,...). We're talking about $400-800 for these, most are $500-600. Someone making 20k a year might have to stretch to buy one of these but they can do it if they really want and they don't have a family to feed.
3. Affordable guns (Taurus, Bersa, Kel-Tec, surplus handguns) which are pretty economical, between $250 and $400. Some brands, like Taurus, may have bad reputations for reliability. Others, like Bersa, have excellent reputations. Most people (80% or more) can afford one. Some may need to scrape together the funds but they can do it if they want.
4. The guns that nearly all of us sneer at and refuse to own. This is stuff like Hi-Point, Jiminez, Cobra, RG, Nagant revolvers, etc. Anyone can acquire one of these guns. Most of them aren't reliable or durable because the materials and workmanship aren't very good. Some people buy them because they have much to learn about guns and others buy them because it's all they can afford.
5. Pepper spray, stun gun, knife, baton, spray painted water pistol, "reasoning". Pepper spray or stun guns can incapacitate if used properly. Knives won't look good in court, a fake gun is a bluff with good odds of working and disastrous consequences if it doesn't, and violent criminals are past the point of reason.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good breakdown, but it's not quite that simple.

For example, I've bought several used Tier 2 pistols for Tier 4 prices.

Also there are several reliable/durable "military type" pistols that typically sell in excellent/unissued condition for Tier 4 prices. Makarovs &Tokarevs are a couple of common examples.

In my opinion, the true Tier 4 guns are for people who have very little money and either don't know about guns or who are in a hurry to buy a gun. Outside of those two categories, it's almost always possible to buy a Tier 2 or Tier 3 gun without paying any significant cost penalty.
 
I've never shot a Jiminez, RG, or Nagant revolver, but I can tell you Hi Point is NOT in the same class as a cobra.
Click to expand...
For that matter most Nagants I've run across are built to very high standards. It's a strange design and not lots of power, but it is well made.
 
If all I could afford was an inexpensive gun like a Hi-Point then I would go for it. I think any gun is better than no gun. One of my local gun dealers goes to police auctions and buys small lots of "Saturday night specials." Some he scraps out and demills and tosses, some he uses for parts, and the rest get a good going over and then go into the display case. They don't last long. There are plenty of people on a tight budget out there that feel a whole lot safer with a gun of any kind.
 
Nagant revolvers are fun to shoot and reliable.

They are not an especially hard hitting caliber and reloading is "interesting".

I would not be putting them in the "poor quality" category.
 
When I was young and foolish I used to think a bad girlfriend was better than no girlfriend....

Well, I was wrong about that too!

LOL....

The reality is that you wouldbe better off spending $150 on a really good knife (you can find TOPS knives used for that) than you would be to waste it on a cheap peice of junk with a zinc slide and a frame made out of zinc or recycled milk jugs.

If you have to have a gun, put that $150 down on a decent used or budget model gun (Charter, Kel Tec) and forgo the cell phone, internet and cable tee vee for a few months and scrape up another $200-$300 and get a decent, low budget gun from a respectable maker or a good used Ruger or Smith or Colt.

Only a FOOL buys a cheap automatic with a zinc slide thinking it is anything more than a nightmare waiting to happen. I have seen some of these clunkers fall apart or break in the number of rounds it takes to bread a decent gun in.
Remember, S&W TRIED to make a cheap .380 with a zinc slide and it was a failure due to low service life and other problems.
If S&W can't make a useable gun out of junk, what makes you think Hi Point or Jennings or Bryco or Jiminez, or whoever can?

People who beleive that crap are FOOLING themselves.

As for "affordable" I put most of my current collection together when I was a security guard making under $4 an hour. I bought model 29s, L frames, a .45 automatic and a browning hi power back then, along with more than one Beretta 92.

I worked with guys who bought Zinc junk and ****** and moaned about how they coudn't afford a decent gun...and yet, they spent more on cigarettes in a year than I did on a decent gun.

Its all in what you want to spend your money on.

How many people here who have defended garbage guns spend $50 a month on cable television? How many of you spend $30 a month or more on hi speed internet? How many of you spend $40 or more a month on a cell phone?
These are ALL things you can live without.
I would rather live without them and buy decent armaments than waste my money on frivolus luxuries. Internet is available at the library for free, television is garbage anymore and who needs to be aggravated by telemarketers when they are on the crapper or in the shower?
There are better ways to spend you money. No matter how little you make.

Even a young person making minimum wage can put aside enough to buy a good gun, if they are willing to forgoe the modern Hi Tech junk everybody thinks they can't live without. Especially when you get your $700 back on your income taxes every year.
Would you rather waste your money talking to people or do you want fine weaponry? The choice is yours.
 
Last edited:
Mark Milton is right on.

Nagants are great guns for the exact reasons others have stated

The problem with Hi-points is not really reliability if used properly as I thought before I owned one.
The problem is they are extrememly top heavy. This causes them to have attrocious felt recoil. Running the 100 round range drill with a hi-point is more punishing than sending 2 or three times as many rounds down a Glock 26.
The flip of the barrel also leads to limp wristing malfunctions if you don't stiff wrist it. I say stiff wrist b/c it takes a firmer grip than the average gun.

If you don't mind beating your hand to death on a minimal training drill and are certain you will hold it firmly in adverse conditions and such, why not a HP?
Well they are uglier than glocks, which is saying something, but otherwise they are sufficient.
 
I stand with the crowd who says cheap is fine as long as it is reliable. My glock has never failed to feed or fire. My other pistols have. I am planning on purchasing a 9mm this weekend for $100 and even if it is not reliable, I will keep it, and when I find another reliable gun for a cheap price, I may use it for SD.
 
Inexpensive guns don't equal cheap guns.

I have 3 hi-points at my house. They are inexpensive. They go bang 98 % of the time. FTF is the only issue with them. I am still breaking them in. and working on the right handloads.

I have a Cheap Jennings J22. I won't sell it because I don't think anybody else should have to suffer it. it is now a single shot.

Inexpensive guns are FAR better than no guns.

Cheap guns are ALMOST as useless as no gun.

I have other, more expensive guns, but I like my inexpensive guns, too.

I DISLIKE snotty snobs looking down their nose at people who choose to purchase a certain brand or style of product.

Please note - I haven't associated the description above with ANY individual here. However, maybe that shoe fits and if so, you will realize that not everybody shares your values.
Click to expand...

Mark said everything I wanted to say, and has probably summed up the entire thread the best. I must admit I don't have the patience to read it all. There are plenty of fine firearms that can be had for 250 or so. There's plenty of junk that costs 800+. I'd carry a Bersa for SD over a Kimber any day of the week.
 
All fine and good, if you are young and healthy...but not really

You can get a whole lot of knife for $150. Of course learning to use one of those takes more time than a gun.
Click to expand...
The reality is that you wouldbe better off spending $150 on a really good knife
Click to expand...
Not in my reality!
The problem is that in a knife fight, the winner goes to the hospital! The loser goes to the morgue! More often than not. And then there is that whole "contact distance" thing to deal with.

My wife (middle aged with a heart condition), or mother-in-law (in her 80s), or even myself, (a fine figure of a middle aged overweight man of sedentary habits) would find ourselves hard pressed to defend ourselves with any quality knife (or a junk one) against a 170lb 19 year old (especially if on drugs) who was determind to do us bodily harm.

Put even a 90yr old .38 revolver in our hands, and the situation changes drastically. Even a "junk" gun can frighten off a would be attacker, and a cheap gun that works can deal with a determined attacker, if you do your part, and either will perform better than any knife in the hands of those of us who are not in top physical condition.

Handguns are what works best for the elderly, the infirm, the handicapped and the disabled. And the work pretty well for the rest of us too!;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top