Is no gun better than cheap junk?
- Thread starter 2DaMtns
- Start date
This is the way I see it. Lets just say its only 90 percent of the time that the presence of a gun deters. Yeah, noone here trusts those odds enough to actually carry a spray painted water pistol. So, lets just say you have a water pistol painted that looks remarkably real. 90 percent of the time the gun will deter. So you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting dead. Now lets say you have no water pistol. as Scottschultz said
So basically,
10% chance of getting dead or seriously injured using painted water pistol
30% (minimum) chance of getting dead or seriously injured with no gun.
Great point! I am pulling this out of my @ss, but I would say 30% minimum of home invasions/street robberies turn violent.
So basically,
10% chance of getting dead or seriously injured using painted water pistol
30% (minimum) chance of getting dead or seriously injured with no gun.
You could say that guns are like any other tool you would consider buying. You start off not having much of anything and basically depend on Harbor Freight for your tools. As you continue to work with these tools, you notice which ones are are adequate for the job and which ones need upgrade. You save up for the better tools while the ones you have get the job done. After a while you will eventually have all good tools, but until then...
This thread has a lot of hyperbole!
This thread has a lot of hyperbole!
A Hi Point beats nothing against a bad guy anyday.
If that is all you can afford and your only going to put fifty rounds through it anyway,then good luck.
I wish everyone could wait for a deal on a Model 10 Smith or a Ruger P95 but when your life in threatened,if a HiPoint will keep you alive then get a Hipoint.
For all the hate thrown at them,some people have had good luck with them.
If that is all you can afford and your only going to put fifty rounds through it anyway,then good luck.
I wish everyone could wait for a deal on a Model 10 Smith or a Ruger P95 but when your life in threatened,if a HiPoint will keep you alive then get a Hipoint.
For all the hate thrown at them,some people have had good luck with them.
orionengnr
New member
To quote one of our members here:
Gee, I'd love to see your data!
Sorry, but I'm not buying this statement for a minute...
I'm not wealthy, or even well off. But I've been down that road (at least five times) and while you may not always get what you pay for, you very seldom get what you don't pay for. Just the result of my fifty-two trips around the sun...
Hi Point ?
I must say that I have Hi Point firearms. They have proven to be very reliable, accurate, easy handled, and they dont burst your wallet! Unfortunately, everyone doesnt have money falling out of their wazoo.. I have shot my 9 over a thousand times, and it still performs like a trooper. Frankly, yes, I would stake my life on a Hi Point anyday. Not throwing off on any Smith, Colt, Ruger or any other top name brand. Bryco, Jennings, Jimnez however, they are nothing but klinking clanking hand busters that should have been melted down for fishing sinkers. The first time I shot my Jimnez, the slide went down the range about 20 feet~!! Enough said.
I must say that I have Hi Point firearms. They have proven to be very reliable, accurate, easy handled, and they dont burst your wallet! Unfortunately, everyone doesnt have money falling out of their wazoo.. I have shot my 9 over a thousand times, and it still performs like a trooper. Frankly, yes, I would stake my life on a Hi Point anyday. Not throwing off on any Smith, Colt, Ruger or any other top name brand. Bryco, Jennings, Jimnez however, they are nothing but klinking clanking hand busters that should have been melted down for fishing sinkers. The first time I shot my Jimnez, the slide went down the range about 20 feet~!! Enough said.
Obviously an emotional topic...
At least for some of the posters. I can't, and won't begin to try and quote numbers exactly, but consider that Gary Kleck's data, now widely recognised, is that guns are used for defense close to 2 MILLION times a year in this country! Now, it appears that nowhere near all those times is the bad guy shot and/or killed (where are all the bodies?), so it seems reasonable to me to assume that guns are not fired in defense more than they are fired.
SO, if the question is "a cheap gun, or no gun" (and it is), for me, I go with the cheap gun everytime. For personal defense. A cheap gun you have on you is worth more than a high quality gun you don't! Especially if you can end the situation without firing it!
Absolute worst case scenario, homicidal psycho who will not be stopped by anything less than physical incapacitation, a cheap gun is still better than no gun! But a good gun is better yet!
Like the man said, if my life, that of my loved ones, or even my property, hangs in the balance, I'll take a slim over none anyday.
Since I have good guns, other than as intellectual exercise, the point is moot anyway.
At least for some of the posters. I can't, and won't begin to try and quote numbers exactly, but consider that Gary Kleck's data, now widely recognised, is that guns are used for defense close to 2 MILLION times a year in this country! Now, it appears that nowhere near all those times is the bad guy shot and/or killed (where are all the bodies?), so it seems reasonable to me to assume that guns are not fired in defense more than they are fired.
SO, if the question is "a cheap gun, or no gun" (and it is), for me, I go with the cheap gun everytime. For personal defense. A cheap gun you have on you is worth more than a high quality gun you don't! Especially if you can end the situation without firing it!
Absolute worst case scenario, homicidal psycho who will not be stopped by anything less than physical incapacitation, a cheap gun is still better than no gun! But a good gun is better yet!
Like the man said, if my life, that of my loved ones, or even my property, hangs in the balance, I'll take a slim over none anyday.
Since I have good guns, other than as intellectual exercise, the point is moot anyway.
That was not quiet the question. It was more whether you'd want a gun that might or might not work. That's why I used the Raven example.
I personally think many of the recent new gun buyers might be better served with a non-lethal device than even a functional handgun. But certainly if you're not sure if your gun will work it is preferable to have some other means of defense that you are sure of.
PoorSoulInJersey
New member
Assuming we are talking about for self defense here, I think not having a gun is better than a cheap one.
We carry guns because of the unlikely event that we might need to defend ourselves or our loved ones. If Mr. Murphy (and his law) come to see you on the day you need to defend yourself, you now think you have a firearm when you really have a metal paperweight. If you pull the trigger and get a "click" instead of a "bang", you may not live long enough to realize what's happened.
I'd be more likely to buy less expensive, less lethal options for a short term while I saved up for something reliable in the Used case.
We carry guns because of the unlikely event that we might need to defend ourselves or our loved ones. If Mr. Murphy (and his law) come to see you on the day you need to defend yourself, you now think you have a firearm when you really have a metal paperweight. If you pull the trigger and get a "click" instead of a "bang", you may not live long enough to realize what's happened.
I'd be more likely to buy less expensive, less lethal options for a short term while I saved up for something reliable in the Used case.
David Armstrong
Moderator
If it works, it works. It doesn't matter what it is or how much it costs. People have faced down BGs before with empty guns, for example. If all you have is the water gun, give it a try. There is a pretty good chance it will work. Dillinger escaped from jail with a poorly carved wooden gun blackened with shoe polish.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Sometimes it is not what yo uwant to do, it is what you can do. Some folks can't afford a reliable automobile, so they get by as best they can with what they have. Some can't afford to fix the stove, so they adjust to do what they can with what they have. Same with the toilet, same with the gun.
the problem with "less lethal"
tools such as pepper spray and tasers/stun guns is that a)they might work, yet not be effective, but mostly b) in many jurisdictions they are as tightly regulated as firearms.
and lets make one thing clear about "cheap guns", reliability wise. A cheap gun is one that goes bang when I pull the trigger the first time, always. It may not go bang reliably for a second shot, or for the 5th, but the first one always goes off. If it doesn't always go off the first time, its not a cheap gun, its a broken gun!
A cheap gun that shoots frst time and every time there after isn't a cheap gun, its an inexpensive gun.
One of my handguns is a T/C Contender. If I ever had to defend myself with it, having only one shot would not be the best situation, but at least I would have that one shot! The same for a cheap gun. A broken gun (one that may not fire at all) is worse than no gun, certainly, if you don't know it is broken. If you do know its broken, then its the same as no gun!
tools such as pepper spray and tasers/stun guns is that a)they might work, yet not be effective, but mostly b) in many jurisdictions they are as tightly regulated as firearms.
and lets make one thing clear about "cheap guns", reliability wise. A cheap gun is one that goes bang when I pull the trigger the first time, always. It may not go bang reliably for a second shot, or for the 5th, but the first one always goes off. If it doesn't always go off the first time, its not a cheap gun, its a broken gun!
A cheap gun that shoots frst time and every time there after isn't a cheap gun, its an inexpensive gun.
One of my handguns is a T/C Contender. If I ever had to defend myself with it, having only one shot would not be the best situation, but at least I would have that one shot! The same for a cheap gun. A broken gun (one that may not fire at all) is worse than no gun, certainly, if you don't know it is broken. If you do know its broken, then its the same as no gun!
DanWesson357
New member
The question, as asked, is "Is no gun better than cheap junk?"
My answer: Yes.
If my alternative is just that, nothing. Why would anyone choose differently?
Have a cheap POS car, a beater that I need to top off with fluids everyday that can't get up to 60 w/o shaking, or no car at all? I love walking, but I would sure hate to have to walk or ride the bus to work everyday. The mindset I'm getting from certain people in this topic is that the answer to the question should be along the lines of "if you can't drive a Mustang, don't drive at all".
I will take a pot metal hunk of **** over no gun at all. There's a good chance that the P.M.H.O.S. will put at least a single round downrange if god forbid I ever needed it to. And even if it didn't, I still had more of a chance to deter a situation with that thing than I had with my hands, or a knife.
Sure, most of us would never buy these guns, nor would we recommend them to anybody else. But if someone is hell-bent on buying one for whatever reason, and there is no changing their mind, then I would rather put a PMHOS in the hands of a good citizen any day than tell them to go unarmed.
My answer: Yes.
If my alternative is just that, nothing. Why would anyone choose differently?
Have a cheap POS car, a beater that I need to top off with fluids everyday that can't get up to 60 w/o shaking, or no car at all? I love walking, but I would sure hate to have to walk or ride the bus to work everyday. The mindset I'm getting from certain people in this topic is that the answer to the question should be along the lines of "if you can't drive a Mustang, don't drive at all".
I will take a pot metal hunk of **** over no gun at all. There's a good chance that the P.M.H.O.S. will put at least a single round downrange if god forbid I ever needed it to. And even if it didn't, I still had more of a chance to deter a situation with that thing than I had with my hands, or a knife.
Sure, most of us would never buy these guns, nor would we recommend them to anybody else. But if someone is hell-bent on buying one for whatever reason, and there is no changing their mind, then I would rather put a PMHOS in the hands of a good citizen any day than tell them to go unarmed.
For those who want reliable and safe
My thoughts on the topic: If you want reliable and safety then go with Springfield's XD line. I have had mine for a few years and the compact is small enough for CHL carry. Also the wife can shoot it reliably (small enough grip). External safety: Grip safety and trigger safety. Goes for less than a glock about 20% less. Buy what you can afford and learn to use it effectively. "Any gun will do if you will"
Disclaimer: I am a 15 yr veteran Soldier.
My thoughts on the topic: If you want reliable and safety then go with Springfield's XD line. I have had mine for a few years and the compact is small enough for CHL carry. Also the wife can shoot it reliably (small enough grip). External safety: Grip safety and trigger safety. Goes for less than a glock about 20% less. Buy what you can afford and learn to use it effectively. "Any gun will do if you will"
Disclaimer: I am a 15 yr veteran Soldier.
there is a difference between a cheap gun, and an unreliable gun. the unreliable gun either needs to go to the gunsmiths, or get replaced. period. a cheap gun is fine. not everybody can afford a kimber or les baer 1911. and i would rather have a reliable hi point in my hand than any custom gun that jams when i need it.
christcorp
New member
You can have cheap and reliable. As long as you get a way from the idea that a semi-auto is the way you must go. If you want the most reliable, then get a revolver. If reliability it your #1 requirement; especially if you're not the type experienced enough with guns to think quickly during malfunctions; then you owe it to yourself to have a revolver. There are plenty of revolvers for under $200. The main reason people choose semi-auto pistols is because they want more than 6 shots. Well, that brings up a totally different argument. I personally believe that if you can't hit your target with 6 rounds, then you have no business with a gun. With practice, you can shoot a revolver just as fast as a semi-auto pistol. It will be more reliable. It will be a better defensive weapon.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Don't count on Dr. Kleck's statistics for saving your life, COUNT ON YOUR GUN!"
Yeah, that was my advice alright, Rely on Dr. Keck's research!
You don't need a gun! A rolled up copy of this statistical table is more than eought!
Jesus wept...
Yeah, that was my advice alright, Rely on Dr. Keck's research!
You don't need a gun! A rolled up copy of this statistical table is more than eought!
Jesus wept...
UtahHunting
New member
With these daily multiple negative threads on hi-point firearms, you guys have almost convinced me to go buy one.
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